Opinion Richmonds future direction with Hardwick

[wart101]

I seriously have to learn to multiquote Oh well, ill go old school.

The little plus symbol next to reply is the Multi quote button

 

[wart101]

I've mentioned nothing about Port's injuries except to say that Hinkley hasn't been excusing the form of his side with injuries, the way Hardwick did earlier in the year. Now I find this funny and proves 100% that Hardwick could win the flag but you would twist it to say Hardwick did not win it but the opposition lost it . I have no idea what planet you have been on but read the Adeliade papers. Port coaches, players have mentioned there two missing backs heaps of times!

Lets be realistic for a second. Port lost there main ruck, and two back men. When they lost there two backs there form went from winning everything to losing 3 out of there last 4 games. In the first 10 weeks of our season we had key players missing for large chunks of time. Like our main ruck, main mid, our BnF, Our main full back, Astbury, Conca, Vlaustin and I am not including others who have been injured all year like King for example who was crucial to us last year.

I can dead set see, if port had our injuries in there first 10 weeks they would not have performed close to what they have, they would have performed worse then they have in there last month. Now Hardwick did not come out and say we are losing due to Injuries, he just stated factually the injuries created a huge dirth in leadership and we still dont have the depth to cover.

Keep in mind Razor, you mention the Axe. Hardwick has rebuilt our list during the wast period in footys drafting history with the two new sides, he has done so and made us competitive. BUT that short time can not improve our depth, we still need a few more drafts to go. Lastly, last year when Grigg was out of games we more often then not lost games.....its funny now that Grigg is not missed. That is proof our depth is improving, we just need time.

Lastly, I am not a brightsider as such. I am not happy that it looks like we wont make finals, I am not happy that mistakes were made in regards to our list, yes Hampson I am looking at you! in saying that though, Hardwick has till this year IMPROVED our list and club. We have retracted this year mainly IMO due to our lack of depth which in turn and nut was spot on in saying our ball movement and back ward play lost us games. Were i differ from some here is that I dont believe Hardwick said to the boys " Ok lads, i want slow ball movement and if you can handball backwards!". What i believe with not having Maric, Jackson, Rance, Lids for 4 weeks etc caused our boys to play safe and in turn we played shit.

These last few Paragraphs are spot on and exactly to the point, the fact that you mentioned port have been using 2 key defenders as an excuse for recent bad form made me laugh, they have been saying for weeks how losing Alapeta Carlise (I can't spell his name) and Jackson Trengrove has contributed to there downslide, Maric is a huge Culture loss, he brings toughness to the team that was clearly missing in his absence, something that has also been missing with kingy not playing, people seem to forget the small things that make a team successful like having a tough, fearless competitor on the field showing the rest of the group how to go about it.

I'm not happy at all either but i am ****ing sick of the spit on the coach supporters that are in this forum at the moment.

 

[nut]

Another great effort. Best wet weather game we've played under hardwick. Didn't take us as long as normal to stop over possessing the ball.
I don't remember seeing a backwards kick ..... More of that please.

 

[Mr Magic]

We were lucky with free kicks and stupid West Coast play like Ellis giving away 50 metre on Vlastuin and TV head high free kick early.


Gotta say it looks like our direction is well and truely the North Melbourne path with average mature players leading us on the path of mediocrity to no where.

Looks like we are heading to mid-table again where we will stay there abouts until our new footy dept comes in I would imagine!!

 

[Mr Magic]

As you well know, it now looks a decent list because he's improved nearly every player on it, some of them dramatically. You're not going to argue he inherited a bunch of great players who the rest of the comp would dearly love to have playing for them, because you can't. He MADE that group a bunch of players other sides would gladly take on.



Really, RT, you do take up some incredibly bizarre positions.

Fitness Team > Coaching Team/Game Plan

Talk about cart before the horse...

Hinkley walked into the place and instigated an attacking, winning brand of football where players were always given license to take the game on. The Geelong blueprint with a twist. Then he set about motivating them to be the best players they could be. He was almost universally recognised as coach of the year last season, but if you want to pretend the transformation was more due to player fitness, have at it. I think you'll find very few agree with you.



Reiwoldt V Schulz (who Hardwick wouldn't guarantee a game, so he left)
Cotchin V Boak
Martin V Wingard
Tuck V Cornes
Jackson V Ebert
Rance V Carlisle
Deledio V Wines

Could go on, wart, but to me, Hardwick clearly inherited a far superior 'skeleton' to that of Hinkley, or Roos for that matter. Then he proceeded to turn us into Fitzroy, for the purposes of teaching 'the right way' to go about winning a flag.

Even in the worst of the heat and speculation of Wallace's last year, after it was being widely said that he'd 'lost the players', we were within a couple of kicks of beating the then 'unbeatable' Geelong and played a game far gutsier than what we've seen this year. We certainly weren't Fitzroy - Hardwick turned us into a completely non-competitive rabble.

We paid a massive price for the period Hardwick asked for to teach the players his way. Now it's clear that the vision he espoused has not come remotely close to being fulfilled, it's time to stop paying the most unacceptable price in football - not getting closer to winning a flag.



It's a mind boggling admission, tug. Like holding Miles back and then being 'surprised.' He's often a lousy judge of a player, IMO and it's held up the development of several kids who would have earned a crack if their coach wasn't so 'surprised' all the time.



Absolutely, RatD.

Our elite young mids got smashed from pillar to post in their early years, because it was vital to Hardwick's vision that we had our best ball users at the coalface. No Shane Tuck types needed, he's just an accumulator, does nothing with it.

Here we are in year 5 with Thomas. It's a spectacular reversal in mindset and really, to me, his only excuse can be that it's impossible to build a fully stocked, top-line midfield solely from the draft over six seasons - which is itself a spectacular reversal from exactly what he promised when he took the job.

When do you think the powers will make a move? Next year or after?

Do you think we wil lose some players in the mean time as a result?

 

[_Wang_]

We were lucky with free kicks and stupid West Coast play like Ellis giving away 50 metre on Vlastuin and TV head high free kick early.


Gotta say it looks like our direction is well and truely the North Melbourne path with average mature players leading us on the path of mediocrity to no where.

Looks like we are heading to mid-table again where we will stay there abouts until our new footy dept comes in I would imagine!!

CapTain buzzkill

 

[TigerTime88]

We were lucky with free kicks and stupid West Coast play like Ellis giving away 50 metre on Vlastuin and TV head high free kick early.


Gotta say it looks like our direction is well and truely the North Melbourne path with average mature players leading us on the path of mediocrity to no where.

Looks like we are heading to mid-table again where we will stay there abouts until our new footy dept comes in I would imagine!!

I think we have enough talent to maybe become something if we can shag a gun free agent. But we need to find a gem at pick 9ish this year.

Cotchin/Dusty/Lids are our stars

Miles, Conca, Ellis, Vlaustin are quality 2nd tier.....hopefully Lennon can join that top group and be more than a foot soldier.

 

[TJTIGER]

I seriously have to learn to multiquote Oh well, ill go old school.

If you want to discuss Wallace in detail or my past postings from many years ago, make a thread about it. - God NO, as there are too many threads to choose from where excuse after excuse was offered on your behalf that you have magicaly removed for Hardwick.


And where did this so similar playing list finish under Primus? They were universally described as one of the worst lists in the league. You're making my point for me. - Actually no, you have made mine. Primus was a hack but he did one thing well, he recruited talent. Also Port did the best thing and hired a elite performance expert, a lot of there improvement is really based on that then Hinkley imo. Ports game plan is really quite simple. Flood the defense to create a plus one or plus two and then release the ball over the back to runners who run the ball then deliver it there forwards. Being a simple game plan it works, hell it is quite similar to our 2013 model the difference is that it can be exposed and as was shown two weeks ago, and freely mentioned by Port supporters, he has no plan B.

Indeed, why make shit up? "Half a decade to build his perfect list" is what I'm talking about. Again you have backpeddled. You clearly stated that Hardwick has had this current list for nearly half a decade and our improvement has stopped. It makes me laugh when i hear and read that. Ellis has stepped up again and people forget he has just turned 20. Vlastun<sp> has improved, Titch has hit a level of consistency finally which he never did under wallace, shit i could go on and on

Hardwick has exactly the midfield he wanted - a midfield built almost entirely from the draft. The age of our midfield was not a problem last year apparently, so why should it be used as an excuse this year? I am surprised that you said that. With your obvious footy knowledge its amazing how you have just done a Rohan Conally. Our midfield is younger funny enough then last year. We are missing Tuck for example and we used to use Grigg in the guts as well as jackson who this year has hardly played in there due to his injuries. So we are actually younger. Why that is an issue is simple, we are winning clearances but are getting smashed in contested possession as our younger body's have limited mature body support. FFS we have been playing Tich in there!

Now I applaud Hardwick for that, as its brave. He is looking with a eye on next year and the year after. We got Thomas IMO to be that mature body till Miles caught on. Yes Hardwick should have promoted him earlier but who is to say that by keeping Miles back and really making him earn the jumper has not been a main contributer to Miles form?

Just look at the contested game at Perth tonight. We finally have a semi fit Foley. Put him in the guts and Thomas and what happens, we win not only contested ball but clearances as well.

I've mentioned nothing about Port's injuries except to say that Hinkley hasn't been excusing the form of his side with injuries, the way Hardwick did earlier in the year. Now I find this funny and proves 100% that Hardwick could win the flag but you would twist it to say Hardwick did not win it but the opposition lost it . I have no idea what planet you have been on but read the Adeliade papers. Port coaches, players have mentioned there two missing backs heaps of times!

Lets be realistic for a second. Port lost there main ruck, and two back men. When they lost there two backs there form went from winning everything to losing 3 out of there last 4 games. In the first 10 weeks of our season we had key players missing for large chunks of time. Like our main ruck, main mid, our BnF, Our main full back, Astbury, Conca, Vlaustin and I am not including others who have been injured all year like King for example who was crucial to us last year.

I can dead set see, if port had our injuries in there first 10 weeks they would not have performed close to what they have, they would have performed worse then they have in there last month. Now Hardwick did not come out and say we are losing due to Injuries, he just stated factually the injuries created a huge dirth in leadership and we still dont have the depth to cover.

Keep in mind Razor, you mention the Axe. Hardwick has rebuilt our list during the wast period in footys drafting history with the two new sides, he has done so and made us competitive. BUT that short time can not improve our depth, we still need a few more drafts to go. Lastly, last year when Grigg was out of games we more often then not lost games.....its funny now that Grigg is not missed. That is proof our depth is improving, we just need time.

Lastly, I am not a brightsider as such. I am not happy that it looks like we wont make finals, I am not happy that mistakes were made in regards to our list, yes Hampson I am looking at you! in saying that though, Hardwick has till this year IMPROVED our list and club. We have retracted this year mainly IMO due to our lack of depth which in turn and nut was spot on in saying our ball movement and back ward play lost us games. Were i differ from some here is that I dont believe Hardwick said to the boys " Ok lads, i want slow ball movement and if you can handball backwards!". What i believe with not having Maric, Jackson, Rance, Lids for 4 weeks etc caused our boys to play safe and in turn we played shit.

OMG !!! IM going into makes too much sense overload or Im going to have to do something very dramatic, like agree with your comments. There I said it. Oh oh , look out, the sky is falling !!!! The only real critisism I have & I mean this with every bit of sincerety I can muster Tiger71. Your post lacks genuine superficial analysis & gets dangerously close to the heart of the matter.

 

[wart101]

OMG !!! IM going into makes too much sense overload or Im going to have to do something very dramatic, like agree with your comments. There I said it. Oh oh , look out, the sky is falling !!!! The only real critisism I have & I mean this with every bit of sincerety I can muster Tiger71. Your post lacks genuine superficial analysis & gets dangerously close to the heart of the matter.

LMFAO!

 

[Mr Magic]

I think we have enough talent to maybe become something if we can shag a gun free agent. But we need to find a gem at pick 9ish this year.

Cotchin/Dusty/Lids are our stars

Miles, Conca, Ellis, Vlaustin are quality 2nd tier.....hopefully Lennon can join that top group and be more than a foot soldier.

I don't have any issue with these players but they are not enough. Swans will dominate then Suns and GWS.

Current talent is not enough and really we need to trade our established players get new talent before Geelong Hawks and others fall off a cliff IMO.

We will lose a lot of the bold when they see we are heading done the North Melbourne path of mid-table with recycled average types!

We might get 3rd to 8th easily but the list doesn't have the talent to take us to a premiership unless we trade out players now.

If we miss out on the likes of Laverde or Lever the required talent and energy at the right time will not be there IMO!

 

[Mr Magic]

CapTain buzzkill

Gotta admit it was a pretty poor victory. Celebrated Cox after calling his retirement gets whacked in the chops by TV and apart from the umps our standout player was Dusty doing what he does best in the forward line. If West Coast tanked it would not surprise me!

 

[_Wang_]

Gotta admit it was a pretty poor victory. Celebrated Cox after calling his retirement gets whacked in the chops by TV and apart from the umps our standout player was Dusty doing what he does best in the forward line. If West Coast tanked it would not surprise me!

A wins a win.. Least they had a crack if we had that sort of intensity v bullflogs, shemons and gold coa$t we would have been in a reasonable position.

 

[26_Miles]

Have for a long time been against hardwick. Against him in the sense that I haven't seen him as a good enough coach to take us to the top. I've always felt that he has been a reasonable developer of players, getting decent returns out of players such as king, Morris, Grigg, houli and the likes, but his match day coaching has always left me completely baffled on numerous occasions over the last few years. He has always been incredibly slow to react to situations that turn games against us such as Trying to play game styles our cattle aren't capable of or allowing opposition teams to have a lose man that slaughters us for a half to whole game (Hansen for North last year anyone?)

Over the last month my faith is being restored a little bit, I'm still not sold on him yet, but I'm much more comfortable with him attempting to redeem himself next year than I have been for a long time.

I have noticed that his match day coaching has improved in the way that decisions are being made much quicker now. Westhoff was getting port back into the game 2 weeks ago, and moving Chaplin to him was very effective. Every time port tried to have a spare man, we put an extra man forward on them. This was key to us winning the game. Last night having Chaplin and vlaustin playing a sweeper role in the last qtr was very effective to, although Simpson didn't seem to react to this well.

Playing batchelor in the right position, finally, is proving to be effective aswell and gives me hope for the development of Lennon and McDonough.

I know it goes without saying, but Next year is make or break for hardwick

 

[Mr Magic]

Have for a long time been against hardwick. Against him in the sense that I haven't seen him as a good enough coach to take us to the top. I've always felt that he has been a reasonable developer of players, getting decent returns out of players such as king, Morris, Grigg, houli and the likes, but his match day coaching has always left me completely baffled on numerous occasions over the last few years. He has always been incredibly slow to react to situations that turn games against us such as Trying to play game styles our cattle aren't capable of or allowing opposition teams to have a lose man that slaughters us for a half to whole game (Hansen for North last year anyone?)

Over the last month my faith is being restored a little bit, I'm still not sold on him yet, but I'm much more comfortable with him attempting to redeem himself next year than I have been for a long time.

I have noticed that his match day coaching has improved in the way that decisions are being made much quicker now. Westhoff was getting port back into the game 2 weeks ago, and moving Chaplin to him was very effective. Every time port tried to have a spare man, we put an extra man forward on them. This was key to us winning the game. Last night having Chaplin and vlaustin playing a sweeper role in the last qtr was very effective to, although Simpson didn't seem to react to this well.

Playing batchelor in the right position, finally, is proving to be effective aswell and gives me hope for the development of Lennon and McDonough.

I know it goes without saying, but Next year is make or break for hardwick

Both B Scott and Dimma will get sacked eventually because they are developing average teams, not premiership teams, as the teams lack the required talent to get it done in finals!

 

[TheOutsider74]

The Tiges will never win a premiership under Hardwick, unfortunately.

 

[Livonski]

The Tiges will never win a premiership under Hardwick, unfortunately.

Why is that mate? Would love to take your opinion on face value, but give us something to back it up.

 

[This Is Anfield]

Gotta admit it was a pretty poor victory. Celebrated Cox after calling his retirement gets whacked in the chops by TV and apart from the umps our standout player was Dusty doing what he does best in the forward line. If West Coast tanked it would not surprise me!

Bugger me Mr M! You've been better than that lately, a win in Perth, in atrocious conditions where the harder at it side usually wins, against a side that had to win to keep their finals hopes alive and with the incentive of Cox's retirement. A poor win! Don't think so!

The Tiges will never win a premiership under Hardwick, unfortunately.

They MAY never, they MAY!

 

[TheOutsider74]

Why is that mate? Would love to take your opinion on face value, but give us something to back it up.

This is what I think. He's into his fourth year. Not that long back (say last year) a lot of people were saying we had a very solid side, if not the makings of a great side. Either a lot of people misjudged the depth of talent, or somewhere along the line over the last 12 months, things have gone awry. Considering the talent is more or less the same, that would seem to leave only the coaching to explain this year. We won't be premiers next year, and that will be his fifth year as senior coach. Very few coaches go five years with a mediocre record like ours, and go on to coach that same team to a premiership. I wrote a bit of tome last year, saying that while I think Dimma is a top bloke, I don' think he is a great coach. Look at the great coaches. Usually, they come across as totally convinced they can do the job. Dimma always gives the impression he's that he's not absolutely convinced he deserves to be there. You don't get that feeling with Clarkson, or Lyon, for example. I also said we should have got Malthouse when Eddie crazily shafted him. I was howled down for saying so then, and will probably be howled down for saying so now, but IMHO, Mick could well have has us on the path to where we would all like to be heading. There's a guy who has never doubted where he was going, and how he was going to get there. Carlton may well dent his legacy, like it destroyed Pagan's, but as Leigh Matthews said, Mick is one of the all-time greats, and we should have got him.

 

[This Is Anfield]

This is what I think. He's into his fourth year. Not that long back (say last year) a lot of people were saying we had a very solid side, if not the makings of a great side. Either a lot of people misjudged the depth of talent, or somewhere along the line over the last 12 months, things have gone awry. Considering the talent is more or less the same, that would seem to leave only the coaching to explain this year. We won't be premiers next year, and that will be his fifth year as senior coach. Very few coaches go five years with a mediocre record like ours, and go on to coach that same team to a premiership. I wrote a bit of tome last year, saying that while I think Dimma is a top bloke, I don' think he is a great coach. Look at the great coaches. Usually, they come across as totally convinced they can do the job. Dimma always gives the impression he's that he's not absolutely convinced he deserves to be there. You don't get that feeling with Clarkson, or Lyon, for example. I also said we should have got Malthouse when Eddie crazily shafted him. I was howled down for saying so then, and will probably be howled down for saying so now, but IMHO, Mick could well have has us on the path to where we would all like to be heading. There's a guy who has never doubted where he was going, and how he was going to get there. Carlton may well dent his legacy, like it destroyed Pagan's, but as Leigh Matthews said, Mick is one of the all-time greats, and we should have got him.

You're right, I really wish we are going as well as Carlton!

 

[TheOutsider74]

You're right, I really wish we are going as well as Carlton!

Fair enough , but he's not quite done there yet. Let's see what happens. In any case, I think he would have done a lot better with the Tiges.

 

[TigerImposter]

Mick got sucked in by the hype of players on his list. He's now going back to the basics and cleaning out the list cloggers
Watch Gartlett and co go seasons end and watch Blair with DH poke their noses in with second round picks , a truck load of money and a long term contract

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

We need to properly replace leppa think he was underrated and crucial to our season last year. Do that and draft well I think we will be back on track next year

 

[Livonski]

Mick got sucked in by the hype of players on his list. He's now going back to the basics and cleaning out the list cloggers
Watch Gartlett and co go seasons end and watch Blair with DH poke their noses in with second round picks , a truck load of money and a long term contract

Mick's such a legend? "and got sucked in by the hype of players on his list..." lol

Did you read that back before you hit the "post" button?

 

[theflea]

Another great effort. Best wet weather game we've played under hardwick. Didn't take us as long as normal to stop over possessing the ball.
I don't remember seeing a backwards kick ..... More of that please.

The win over port in the wet was better imo. Also there wasn't many backward kicks because of the conditions were rubbish for finessing the pill.

 

[Goldust]

What Hardwick has to stand on is his first 4 years in charge where he took a side that was a shambles from 15th to 5th with consistent steady improvement from year to year. Like I have said repeatedly this year is a shocker, it hasn't come anywhere near what I had hoped it would be, but given Hardwick has those 4 years of consistent improvement behind him, I'm quite willing to give him a chance to turn it around in 2015 and perhaps 2016. What will be interesting to see is just how many of the haters come back to being fans if next year turns out to be another finals appearance? Reckon there will be quite a few that do, while at the same time I expect the odd hater to undergo a self imposed exile.

CORRECTION: Hardwick took us from 15th to 8th. And he should be treated harshly on that finals loss as we lost to a team that didn't even win enough games to actually play finals but got gifted a spot!