Rioli or Selwood?

[Hodgepodge]

Rioli is not a KPP, he's a small forward/mid. Took that quote completely out of context.

That's true, but he still looks like he has a lot of improvement in him, and much more than Selwood. All we're seeing is flashes of brilliance. It just so happens that those flashes are enough to make him one of our better players.

Selwood just keeps getting better. Close to BOG yet again, has overtaken Corey and Bartel already. Definitely a top 10 player at the moment (competition, not club). But of course, Selwood has already reached his peak

Don't be so sensitive, nobody said he had peaked, just that he doesn't have the upside of a Rioli.

 

[selwoodthesuper]

but to answer the question that was asked Rioli or Selwood....?
Selwood by a footy oval!!!
they are both great players just selwoods better ... FACT!!

 

[conanthelibrarian]

Guys like Gilbee, Hodge, Buckley were/are elite kicks.

Guys like Rob Harvey, although very reliable, were not. They were just good users.

Selwood is not an elite kick, and nobody will tell you he is.

[YOUTUBE]2qt3DnNxjwQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Hodgepodge]

Nevertheless.

 

[catters078]

That's true, but he still looks like he has a lot of improvement in him, and much more than Selwood. All we're seeing is flashes of brilliance. It just so happens that those flashes are enough to make him one of our better players.



Don't be so sensitive, nobody said he had peaked, just that he doesn't have the upside of a Rioli.

Get your blinkers off goose, selwoods 20 years old not even near his peak, and is already top 15 in the competition, to say he doesnt have an upside compared to rioli is ridiculous...

Hawthorn Supporters are starting to sound like the ficklest of collingwood supporters..

 

[selwoodthesuper]

feel free to correct me if i am wrong but is Selwood leading the disposals at the moment?????? Where is Rioli??????

 

[Hodgepodge]

Get your blinkers off goose, selwoods 20 years old not even near his peak, and is already top 15 in the competition, to say he doesnt have an upside compared to rioli is ridiculous...

Hawthorn Supporters are starting to sound like the ficklest of collingwood supporters..

Anyone will tell you that he doesn't have the upside of Rioli. Cyril Rioli still has a lot of work to do in the gym and on the running track to build up his endurance and strength. Selwood had those from day one. More or less a ready made footballer.

 

[selwoodthesuper]

So are you saying HP that Rioli is not as good as Selwood???ATM???

 

[Hodgepodge]

feel free to correct me if i am wrong but is Selwood leading the disposals at the moment?????? Where is Rioli??????

He is . . . Rioli doesn't get huge numbers, he has an impact nonetheless, and is a brilliant player. The upside with Cyril is that when he gets a bigger motor, he will have 20 or 30 possession games quite regularly.

Selwood's a great player, but he needs more disposals to have an impact. Whereas the quality of Rioli's play isn't measured by stats, but by his line-breaking run, evasion, tackling, etc.

At the moment, Selwood is the better player, but I think as early as next year, Rioli will overtake him.

 

[selwoodthesuper]

so Rioli will be one of the brownlow fav next year???

 

[Hodgepodge]

so Rioli will be one of the brownlow fav next year???

I have no idea what will happen in 2010.

 

[selwoodthesuper]

well there in no way Rioli will be better then Selwood next year... that would mean he would be better then judd, ablett, dal santo , mitchell, bartel all the great centre players... he plays for like Steve J not Selwood!!

 

[Rockford]

but I think as early as next year, Rioli will overtake him.

I have no idea what will happen in 2010.

End thread.

 

[Hodgepodge]

End thread.

I don't have any knowledge of the future, but if Rioli continues to improve like he should, he will go past Selwood next year.

 

[Hodgepodge]

well there in no way Rioli will be better then Selwood next year... that would mean he would be better then judd, ablett, dal santo , mitchell, bartel all the great centre players... he plays for like Steve J not Selwood!!

Why not?

He's already got a place in our midfield and is in contention for our BnF at the moment.

 

[STC]

That's true, but he still looks like he has a lot of improvement in him, and much more than Selwood. All we're seeing is flashes of brilliance. It just so happens that those flashes are enough to make him one of our better players.



Don't be so sensitive, nobody said he had peaked, just that he doesn't have the upside of a Rioli.

Are you a fortune teller? Explain to me how you know Rioli:
a) Has more upside
b) Is further from his peak than Selwood

Is it really that unbelievable that a 20 year old who is part of the elite of the competition will still be a lot better at the age of 24/25?

 

[STC]

Selwood's a great player, but he needs more disposals to have an impact. Whereas the quality of Rioli's play isn't measured by stats, but by his line-breaking run, evasion, tackling, etc

Leading the competition isn't good enough?

The quality of Selwood's play is not measured by stats either, it's measured by his hardness at it, his work in the packs, his brilliant disposal, his tackling, his ability to get the ball out to his teammates.

I asked you a while ago, probably in this thread, to explain to me why you call some things mere abilities and some things skills. I'm still confused as to why being able to kick goal of the year or run very fast makes you a better, more skilled player than a guy who gets heaps of the ball, uses it well, is very courageous, strong and has all the basics right, everything needed to be an elite inside midfielder.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Leading the competition isn't good enough?

I didn't mean he needs to have more disposals than he already does. I mean he's a player who is good on the weight of his possession. Selwood can't have a 16 possession game that has him as his side's best player on the day.

The quality of Selwood's play is not measured by stats either, it's measured by his hardness at it, his work in the packs, his brilliant disposal, his tackling, his ability to get the ball out to his teammates.

Agreed.

I asked you a while ago, probably in this thread, to explain to me why you call some things mere abilities and some things skills. I'm still confused as to why being able to kick goal of the year or run very fast makes you a better, more skilled player than a guy who gets heaps of the ball, uses it well, is very courageous, strong and has all the basics right, everything needed to be an elite inside midfielder.

A skill to me is a feat the one performs very well, whether it be juggling or archery, etc.

An ability is probably something that is innate to the person, whether it be strength, speed, spring.

You can hone your skills, not so much your abilities.

Being able to kick goal of the year isn't important, the ability to make something out of nothing is probably the key ingredient here. You oversimplify when you describe Rioli's skills, trying to pass him off as a flashy showpony or globetrotter.

Speed is a good asset to have. You can never have enough of it.

Again I will tell you that Rioli's inside work is as good as Selwood's. He doesn't do it as often because he lacks the motor at this stage, but I believe their contested possession numbers are comparable, which is interesting because Joel gets almost twice the amount of ball.

Cyril just lacks the engine at this stage. He's made improvements on last year and will probably improve again next season. These improvements alone give him a larger upside than Selwood.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Rioli's only 17 Contested possessions behind Selwood, and has a game in hand. That's despite Selwood having almost twice the disposal of Rioli.

Rioli's ahead in tackles.

He's ahead in i50s, 37% of which result in goals (source: On the Couch)

He's also ahead in goal assists, and goals.

I still think Selwood is better at this stage, but the gap isn't as wide as people think.

 

[selwoodthesuper]

but the gap between your ears is pretty big HP....

 

[silent butcher]

hodgepodge u r getting arse reemed.You obviously have no idea about footy,until he overtakes selwood which is highly unlikely stop thinking he is better which he is obviously not,dont c him with a rising star award. you should of compared him to a player like eddie betts not a midfielder like selwood.

 

[Hodgepodge]

hodgepodge u r getting arse reemed.You obviously have no idea about footy,until he overtakes selwood which is highly unlikely stop thinking he is better which he is obviously not,dont c him with a rising star award. you should of compared him to a player like eddie betts not a midfielder like selwood.

That's the popular misconception . . . that he's just another goalsneak.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

hodgepodge u r getting arse reemed.You obviously have no idea about footy,until he overtakes selwood which is highly unlikely stop thinking he is better which he is obviously not,dont c him with a rising star award. you should of compared him to a player like eddie betts not a midfielder like selwood.

Oh no! No rising star!!!

Rivers has a rising star so he must be betterer than Buddy, Ablett and Judd!

 

[STC]

Rioli's only 17 Contested possessions behind Selwood, and has a game in hand. That's despite Selwood having almost twice the disposal of Rioli.

Rioli's ahead in tackles.

He's ahead in i50s, 37% of which result in goals (source: On the Couch)

He's also ahead in goal assists, and goals.

I still think Selwood is better at this stage, but the gap isn't as wide as people think.

He's a forward, why wouldn't he have more goals, assists and i50s?

 

[Hodgepodge]

He's a forward, why wouldn't he have more goals, assists and i50s?

He's been playing midfield as well as forward this year. With the amount of possessions he gets, Selwood should be up there with Rioli in i50s, goals, assists, etc.

Selwood was very high in goal assists last year if I recall, but not this one.

He's also only 10 CPs behind Selwood despite the big gap in total disposals.

He's had 15 more tackles this year too.

The gap isn't as big as people think.

Cyril's probably up there in centre clearances as well, always seems to get 2 or 3 a game.