Preview Rnd 1- Carlton v Richmond Thursday 16th March 7.20M @ MCG - Team - Post #898

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thylacine60 said:
don't tell me to move on............maybe reflect that some people think differently from you about particular incidents - move on?..........fmd........you don't have to be a genius to know doc couldn't give a rats about it - it's the arrogant symbolism of it - want me to run through a few moments in our club's history that lean heavily on symbolism?
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Ok, mate. It's really not worth the energy people are giving it, and Richmonds board are fine to be mocking us for it given how much it has been discussed. But hey, be mad about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if it had been mentioned inside the club to try and fire the guys up. I wonder if it'd be more likely they'd pull it out last minute to try and get a sharper/more raw emotional reaction or do it early to see if it builds up more, not sure what'd be more likely to get the desired result.
 
TENACIOUS said:
The nervousness of the unknown is pretty high now…

What are we going to bring this year? pre-season form offered us not much…

Lots of questions to play out…

Are we playing games and Walsh and Cuningham are available?

Are McGovern, Martin, Cerra, Motlop and Durdin fit an ready to play?

If these guys are fit and ready to go blues by 4+ goals…
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This is the week I like most in last 20 years or so. Before 1st game where dreams and hope are fresh. Where you feel pretty sure your team will smash the Tiggers and be the talk of the town.
Stunned commentators will wax lyrical on radio and tv...
And..

It could happen.
Everything is fresh right now.
Only a few niggly arguments across the forum posts.
Hope rises in a crescendo all week.
Reminiscences of walking across the bridge from the city, being back at the G, huge crowd etc.
We get that new year feeling for a few days more, and then,
Either all hell breaks loose, or we fall right back in love with our team cos it happened. We smashed 'em and we can see that THIS is the year we are back in finals.
 

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Coops93 said:
Are we really still talking about a jerk doing jerky things on the footy field last season?

At the time I was as mad as anyone about him doing it - moreso because it was to Doc than what he actually did. I think Doc deserves a bit more respect than that. But the act of what he did is meh. I'd legitimately forgotten all about it until coming into this thread just now.

Who cares, move on. I highly doubt Doc cares at all and doubt he's the type to be out for retribution, as much as some fans might want to see it.
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I'd celebrate and cheer if the little punk was taken out of the game - permanently by a fair hip and shoulder- and celebrate even harder if it was unfair.
 
Robertio said:
We'll smash the Tiggers, if we don't we'll smash the Pussy Cats, if we don't we'll smash the Giants. That's what it's all about, Carna Baggers.
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I like the never say die attitude mate.
 
Coops93 said:
Are we really still talking about a jerk doing jerky things on the footy field last season?

At the time I was as mad as anyone about him doing it - moreso because it was to Doc than what he actually did. I think Doc deserves a bit more respect than that. But the act of what he did is meh. I'd legitimately forgotten all about it until coming into this thread just now.

Who cares, move on. I highly doubt Doc cares at all and doubt he's the type to be out for retribution, as much as some fans might want to see it.
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Balme, Magro & Milburn.

Never forgiven.
 

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Defence
Defence I think will be Weitering, Young, Newman, Saad, McGovern, Marchbank and either Cincotta, Cowan or Docherty.

Not fazed about Marchbank and McGovern having a lighter training load. Looking back on my footy career I found there were some I could train harder than and some I couldn't. I would get to a point and if I tried to go past that something would give. I also found that you can train too hard leading up to a game, it's better to do what's best for you and if that meant missing sessions and being fresher then that's the best thing to do. I think maturing as a footballer is about learning where that point is and working with that. This was something Russell was supposed to be good with when it came to managing some of Hawthorns stars. These two, they are mature players, naturally good runners, they know how to play at a high level, they don't need to train as hard as others. I believe it's better to be fit and fresh than to be really fit and sore/injured.

Docherty, does he play defence, midfield or a bit of both? It's a hard one. I think Cincotta will do a fine job as a more defensive defender, Cowan will also do fairly well I feel and has a big celling but would be good to see him work his way into the team via good VFL performances as Motlop did last season. As for Cincotta, he is a mature player who comes in off the back of good VFL form in previous seasons, he's more likely to come straight in though as the season progresses I feel we will see Cowan instead. IMO Docherty goes into the midfield mix and Cincotta comes in.

It's a good backline. If Young plays well and Cincotta or Cowan or whoever gets the nod then it's pretty good. Williams is a big out and it does lack that third all round high level AFL defender but it's still good.

Midfield
Both teams will be rating their midfield. They have picked up a couple so I expect they wont run out of gas and will be able to maintain the quality in there a bit. We have a missing piece in there with Walsh, a big piece but we still have high quality IMO. As much as I want Docherty to be in defence, I think he goes into the midfield. It does weaken our backline but we may feel we need to bat deep as they will probably bat deep in the middle as well.

Last season we had a preference to play two rucks which was affected by injury. The better teams are playing two rucks and I feel we need to as well. They will and we will too. Our preference was to play 5 onballers and 2 wingmen. When an onballer went down we played 4 onballers and 3 wingmen with a forward rotating through the middle, usually Fisher.

I think this time we go back to our first preference of 5 onballers (which means Docherty is in that mix) and 2 wingmen with Docherty and Cerra and/or a forward, probably Fisher giving a chop out on the wing.

I think what our midfield is missing is that genuine forward/mid rotation. Cripps went forward a bit last season and it was really good, while this was happening we were a top side, when it stopped we lost our edge. IMO we need to see this but the forward going into the middle, they need to be good and have an impact. Is it still Fisher or will Durdin or Martin step up in this role? I am hoping that one day Motlop is fit enough to do this but at this stage I doubt he has the tank.

Walsh is a big out but Acres is a big in. A genuine quality wingman. Who mans the other wing? It's probably O'Brien. How will his game go with Acres on that other wing being a more dominant winger? He may get off the chain I hope. Hollands is a chance for that wing role but like Cowan I feel he needs to come up through the VFL. Going into games against strong opposition with raw inexperienced players is no ideal. A few VFL games and North Melbourne in round 4 we might have a look at guys like Hollands and Cowan. I would not be surprised if both Hollands and Cowan finish the season in the AFL side.

It's a good midfield. It's not perfect and it's missing a top 2 player but it's still good.

Forward
I think Curnow, McKay, Durdin, Motlop and Fisher are locks. DeKoning is probably a lock as well as the second ruck.

Our forward availability is really good, it's the one area of the ground not affected by injuries which means we should be strong there and good players will miss out. It's been the weakest part of the field for us which is good to have so many available. It still has an air of immaturity to it though. How it allows intercept defenders to get off the chain is still a worry but this should be something we can get right.

We had a preference last season to go with three genuine talls and IMO we will again. DeKoning has finally had a preseason and had one with Curnow and McKay. IMO it's super important that these guys can have a preseason together to help develop their game as a team.

Question lies whether we go a little taller or smaller. I think DeKoning and Pittonet definitely play. Silvagni plays his best as the 4th tall. Last year we asked him to play very tall, taller than what he can play. Previous seasons we have been happy with how his ground level game is but playing so tall took a bit of that away. I'm hoping he can get back to being that player who takes a few marks on smaller opposition but also gathers ground balls and lays tackles as well.

Then there is Owies and Martin. At their best they were too good to leave out last season. This will be a hard one for the MC. I think Martin, if he isn't in the team definitely comes on as the Sub at some stage. I can see us subbing a ruck out and doing this. We have that flexibility to sub out a ruck and go back to Silvagni 2nd ruck.

Would not be surprised to see Pittonet play predominantly ruck, TDK predominantly forward and when he blows up, DeKoning to the ruck, SOS 2nd ruck and Martin forward.

I think we will really push them for height. Teams will be worried about negating Curnow and McKay, the last thing they want to have to worry about is another tall or two. I'd be pushing McKay and Curnow high at times and leaving DeKoning or Silvagni out the back.

I think it's important to make the opposition's third and 4th tall defenders really have to defend. They are usually the ones who will stand in front of McKay or Curnow and double team them and zone off to intercept mark.

Are we a bit tall? If it's wet yes. If it's dry they become too short in defence IMO. It's easy to take DeKoning off and play shorter if need be.

Our forward line was the weaker line last season. It was immature and lacked experience. I think we field a forward line that is really strong. I very much like the look of this forward line.

Likely Team
B: Young Weitering Newman
HB: Saad McGovern Cincotta
C: Acres Cripps O'Brien
HF Fisher Curnow Motlop
F: Durdin McKay DeKoning
OB: Pittonet Cerra Hewett
IC: Marchbank Kennedy Docharty Silvagni
SUB: Martin
EM: Cowan Curnow Owies Hollands

Other players of interest
A bit disappointing that guys like Carroll and Kemp aren't putting their hand up the play. Had high hopes but it looks like more patience is required here. Honey is probably still developing as well but he is another who should be pushing hard this season. These three really need to come on for us to take the next step. We need them to come in and play well when we have players out. We need them to be in that best 23 discussion.

Walsh and Williams are big outs, they are locks in our starting 18. Good midfield depth will help cover for Walsh. Boyd being out as well puts a dint in our defence, he was coming along strongly. Good to see Walsh and Boyd training so hopefully it's not too long until we see them both.

Ed Curnow will have to be close to best 22. We can't discount that he wont come into this team and Docherty will slot back into defence. There is not a lot of talk about this move but make no mistake it will be discussed. I just think that Docherty brings some run to the onball group and Ed probably brings more of the same as what we already have.

Cuningham is a player of discussion as well. No doubt the decision with his shoulder is based on the fact he needs to get back to playing and play for his career this season. Hard to keep him if he has another season with no footy. If fit would he come straight in? I don't think so. He hasn't proven to be high level AFL or higher than any of the others in that side. He has missed too much footy. You would hope that a few VFL games, some strong form builds and he pushes for selection. His run and kicking skill is something that could really add to our team.

Cottrell another out. Played a lot of games last season and improved a lot. With Acres in both he, Hollands and O'Brien are probably playing for one spot. Would he be best 22 for this week? That's up for debate. I think at the end of last season O'Brien had him just but things can change.

Where's Dow at? Not likely to be in this team again. At least there is no mention of it. If another mid comes in and allows Docherty to stay in defence then that's probably good for us but they need to be good and I don't think he's done enough. I don't think he's the sort of mid to replace Walsh.


Game Plan
Team defence and team attack
We play a fairly attacking game plan based around winning the clearances and contests which IMO is good. It translates to finals football which is high pressure, contested and hard at it. But there are aspects of our game plan which IMO was where we lost our grip in some important games and hence lost our grip on finals.

Intercept defenders. It's simple, your forwards have to be aware of them and when they see them zoning off, someone needs to stand them. You can't have defenders taking marks all game, the ball needs to come to ground. It's been a real weakness of ours for a decade. Lack of a pressure game plan and ability to perform when pressure game plans are implemented against us have been a weakness.

In the AFL there are two distinct styles teams play. The general indicator as to what is happening can be identified by whether there are lose players at the stoppage, particular at the centre square stoppage.

Teams play a lose man at the stoppage and hence allow a lose man at stoppage for the opposition. They look to handball out of the stoppage and direct a kick forward. In this game plan the defenders have to play tighter and the forwards can do as they please, with little focus on defending. players should have time to spot up and kick to their team mate when teams are playing this way. This is our go to and when allowed to play this way we are very good. But the opposition picked up on this last season and hence, our losses to teams such as GCS, near miss to Port and Hawthorn and losses later in the season. Yes we blamed injuries but it wasn't just that.

Teams tend to want to win playing this way, it's more about backing your teams ability, skill and it's easier to score and not as physically taxing, it's also prettier footy. But teams will do anything to win so when losing or challenged they change up. Then there are teams like Collingwood who just went with the pressure/intercept/rebound game plan all season and did it really well for them.

Anyway, the other game teams go to is a pressure game. One team will disallow the lose player at the stoppage, which changes tact for both sides. They go one on one in the contests, not tagging, still hunting the ball but playing close to their man so they can apply pressure. The backline slackens off, intercept defenders play loser and set up to intercept mark, flankers slacken off and play wider/loser, the defence sets up to intercept and go quick, trusting the midfield will not allow directed kicks forward. The midfield if good enough allows this by preventing handball from the stoppage and forcing the blind kick, that is if they don't win the footy themselves. When this is happening, the forwards need to switch on and go defensive. Disallow the intercept markers space, disallow the flankers to be wide out in space on their own. This last part is where we fell down badly last season. When teams switched to their pressure game, we didn't pick up on it and our forwards did not prevent the rebound/intercept. How we react to this tactic has been a problem. Collingwood came out this way as they always do in round 23 and killed us, put the pressure on our mids and Maynard and co had a field day taking intercept marks and rebounding. Our forwards did not identify this was happening and this is the main area this game was lost. I don't know if it was poor game awareness of poor coaching but this cost us a lot of games last season.

It's Alistair Clarkson's old gameplan, all his former assistants go this way, it's why we lost so many times to Hawthorn after beating them early in games, this is how they would come back and beat us so often over the years. Others teams have done this to us as well. It's our weak spot.

Not only did we not combat this game tactic well last year but we didn't really show any ability to implement it much ourselves which is strange as we have the team to do it. We have good intercept defenders, rebounding defenders and a physical onball brigade.

Our forwards need to be aware of what's going on in the midfield. They simply have to. If you can see the lose midfielder/s around the stoppages then relax, the game is open, the ball should be coming forward with direction. If you can't see that then that's when you setup for the rushed blind kick forward, you cut off the intercept players and the runners. Forwards sacrifice their own game for the team. This comes down to good coaching, good tactics, experience, voice and leadership out there. Defenders need to be able to identify this, they need to know when to play tighter or loosen off.

There is definitely room to be better tactically and have better cohesion from what I saw last year and in our practice matches.

I think we will have a really keen eye on this tactical side of the game to see whether we have made any advancements here. Will be looking for how we react to changes in opposition tactics. How we handle rebounding and intercepting defenders so they don't get off the hook and how we implement similar tactics ourselves.

Again, we keep an eye out to what the stoppages look like, is there a lose player or is it one on one? That's how we know what's going on in the game. I just hope our forwards and backs do the same and react accordingly. It's not hard for us to see this up in the stands/TV so it shouldn't be too hard out on the field.

Richmond tend to like to go attacking, have the lose player at the stoppage, back their team in and IMO they will go this way again which is good as it allows us to do the same. Just depends when it gets to a point and we are beating them will they change up and will we allow it to work? Or if they are beating us, will we change up and bring the heat?

IMO this is the main thing I will be watching for when we run out against Richmond. It's the number one area we need to get better at.

Ball movement
This was criticised a fair bit last season. We probably failed to put genuine pressure on sides with our ball movement at times. We were often found just going forward up the line, slow bombed kicks up the wing our boundary. Which with a big bodied slower midfield kind of suites us but it's outdated and taxing on the bodies of our players to play this way too often. The better teams do this but they can flick a switch and go for it as well with more ball in the corridor.

You see the better teams switch the ball a lot but they look to switch it higher up the ground as well, not just deep in defensive 50. That switch across the half back line is a real killer move. It really makes the opposition have to run hard to setup their team defence, it wares teams down and opens the game up later on. We haven't got the ball into the middle enough IMO with our ball movement. If we can come in more, get the ball into the centre square more, make the opposition run from side to side more in games we will get better at opening up sides and out running them. I want to see us kicking backwards and in more, going across half back more if we are stuck on the wing. Even rolling the dice and going inside and up the middle.

Overlap run is the other thing. Ok so we carry a few heavy slower bodies, doesn't mean we should have very little overlap run. Williams being out sucks for this because when he was fit he's good at running from behind to generate overlap run. We just need to get this going, with the stand rule you just have to handball off to runners, put the heat on the defending team more.

Going inside F50 fast. There's a time to do it and a time to hold it. Fast movement then a fast turnover hurts. If the forwards are out numbered or numbers are already back and there's no clear targets inside F50 it's better to hold the ball up, look for short kicks and then release the long deep kick. Gives our team time to rest, forwards time to rest particularly, prevents the fast up and back turnover. It allows us to setup defensively and lock it in. Yeah it might congest the forward line but it allows us to conserve energy, lock the ball in our front half and apply good forward pressure. Sometimes when you move it quick and go in quick, if the ball hits the ground the forwards are still spent from running from up field and can't apply good defensive pressure, give them a moment and that changes. Going in quick when the forwards have the upper hand and prime position, hold up when the defensive side has the upper hand. I thought we did this ok at times and poor at others. Picking our moments to go tempo and to go fast, it comes down to experience. There were games we just went in as quick as we could to out numbered forwards or when the defensive zone had already been setup and it just comes out and goes up the other end so quick, it's exhausting our ability to run both ways and defend.

I think if our ball movement is slow or the opposition have beaten us back we just have to hold onto the footy and absorb time, set up to defend and be all about forward pressure and front half time for those moments rather than a quick entry followed by a quick rebound.

Our ball movement will be interesting to watch. It will be interesting to see if we have improved it at all. Definitely want to see us go inside more and switch more. Definitely want to see us switch across half back more and to just hold the ball up and play tempo in the front half at the right time as well.

Matchups
The midfield matchup is going to be pretty good. No resting onballers forward they will need every good mid they have to combat our group IMO. So you will have Cotchin and Martin playing in there a fair bit I feel. As for Martin, you still have to worry about him, he's a 31, it's early in the season so he's fresh. On the ball he goes up against a Kennedy or a Hewett so we have the muscle to match there. They will be keen for new boys Taranto and Hopper to get going and they might, they can play. McGovern was very very good on Riewoldt last year. I think Young goes to the resting ruck and Weitering to Lynch. Marchbank we try and get him as lose as possible, get him standing in front of their full forward etc.

I'm seeing a real weak spot with tall defenders for them I think we can really exploit that. I think our defence covers them well but they will struggle with our height. Grimes, Bolta and Broad defending for their life IMO. They will be hoping that their defensive run and rebound can give them something and perhaps exploit our height but I don't think it will be a problem for us. They aren't talking like Tarrant is ready to go. Short unlikely. Prestia underdone. Lynch a little underdone. Pickett doubtful. There's a few of them.

Richmond will be very very reliant on their smaller quicker players. Which can work but are they up to it? I don't think they win with all their talls nullified and midfield equalled or beaten. Especially if our tall forwards get off the chain which is likely.

Blues by 4-6 goals.
 
gbatman

Carlton wont be beating Richmond with Fisher and Motlop on a HFF

it means that all Richmond have to do is concentrate on Harry/Charlie/DeKoning - all bunched up in the back - knowing that Fisher and Motlop cant kick a goal from 40 meters out.

HF Fisher Curnow Motlop
F: Durdin McKay DeKoning

SUB: Martin

We need goal kickers on the flanks so that opposition cant double team teh obvious bomb it long strategy.

Which is why I am NOT surprised to see Honey played in both trials and Cuningham training as a leading mark.

IIf your 'forward' cant kcik a goal from 40+meters out - he isn't a forward he is something else. No need to cover for Lob/Cottrell on flanks anymore, Acres and whoever can handle a wing - Voss will be better off keeping a forward structure rather than always trying to hold the ball in close to goal - or count on harry/Charlie taking a contested mark against 2-3 opponents.

Martin/Cunningham/Honey are MORE important to solving for Carlton's forward issues than Fisher/Owies/Durdin types.

Martin(Cuningham) TDK Charlie
Motlop Harry Durdin( Honey)

IC: Jack
EM: Fisher

is how I would set up.
 
TheReal99prelim said:
...and the camera footage was inconclusive even though everyone saw it, so no suspension (to Cowan)
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TV broadcast camera with Cotchin Lens Cap removed

9NVbv574yBCQowrNuXZvf-320-75.jpg
 
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