Autopsy Roast & Toast v Collingwood R2 & Changes for Hawthorn

[theflea]

Posting after a good break! Thought we were crap in first Q but increased our intensity for the rest of the game. Getting annoyed that Grundy had a good game imo he was average and Soldo evened the contest. We should have won but very rusty with our fwd 50 connection and can get only better for the run!

 

[Rayzorwire]

That’s the thing they actually do, some of them were and are fantastic players, one the son of a great former league ruck.
Just funny to me how people see things, I thought he was clumsy but he always is but I was defending him for his contested stuff.

I thought he went within a whisker of beating Grundy and had a better second half. Champion Data rated him an ~80 point 2nd half in shortened quarters, that's elite on anyone's terms. Grundy rated 50.

He's clumsy, no doubt, but he's a massive weapon in the making.

 

[Marcel Proust]

That’s the thing they actually do, some of them were and are fantastic players, one the son of a great former league ruck.
Just funny to me how people see things, I thought he was clumsy but he always is but I was defending him for his contested stuff.

Being a good player doesn't make you immune from bad opinions

 

[Roksman]

Funny how different people see things,
Watched it at work with 12 other blokes who were just pissing themselves laughing at Soldo all night and saying he’s the worst player they’ve ever seen!

Is Soldo a highly skilled footballer? Hell no, although I don't think you'll hear anyone say he is.

That's the issue with people who perhaps considered themselves decent footballers, as they'll see someone like him and take an almost unjust jealously towards him.

The alternative is that they'll compare him to a highly skilled midfielder, forward etc which is a flawed comparison.

The final option is that they'll compare him to a highly skilled Ruckman like Grundy which in itself is flawed. Grundy is on a multi-million 7 year deal, 1st round pick, while Soldo was a category B rookie who never played Footy growing up and would be on 10% of Grundys wage.... Yet he still more than held his own against him. Apart from that first quarter stoppage goal, Soldo was fine and had more impact in the final 10 minutes.

The problem with people "seeing things differently" is the aren't looking at the entire picture.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Is Soldo a highly skilled footballer? Hell no, although I don't think you'll hear anyone say he is.

That's the issue with people who perhaps considered themselves decent footballers, as they'll see someone like him and take an almost unjust jealously towards him.

The alternative is that they'll compare him to a highly skilled midfielder, forward etc which is a flawed comparison.

The final option is that they'll compare him to a highly skilled Ruckman like Grundy which in itself is flawed. Grundy is on a multi-million 7 year deal, 1st round pick, while Soldo was a category B rookie who never played Footy growing up and would be on 10% of Grundys wage.... Yet he still more than held his own against him. Apart from that first quarter stoppage goal, Soldo was fine and had more impact in the final 10 minutes.

The problem with people "seeing things differently" is the aren't looking at the entire picture.

Yep Soldo great, Vlas too...

kicked it to the pies all night with dumb switches, or kicked it out of bounds down the line.

miraculous 2 points

 

[TJASTA]

In all fairness, I think a draw was the perfect result.
Nobody deserves the win playing like that.

 

[69vintage]

Soldo is 24 and played 24 AFL games and probably another 50 in his entire life .
Amazing achievement and has a great upside .His disposal skills are very good for a ruckman .

On SM-A520F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Serenity_Now]

Funny how different people see things,
Watched it at work with 12 other blokes who were just pissing themselves laughing at Soldo all night and saying he’s the worst player they’ve ever seen!

They probably don’t like him because they have ‘mo envy’

 

[RFCGloryJC]

Interesting to go through Collingwood's 2019 data.
The last time they had a comfortable win at the G was Melbourne on Queens Birthday weekend, six goal margin.
(Excluding the Suns match.)
Clearly the Pies have trouble amassing a major score at the G, which means opp teams have worked them out.

 

[69vintage]

In all fairness, I think a draw was the perfect result.
Nobody deserves the win playing like that.

83 days between games on the back of hardly any training together what did you expect .

On SM-A520F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jc12]

83 days between games on the back of hardly any training together what did you expect .

On SM-A520F using BigFooty.com mobile app

yeah we r gonnsa have some cooked results

 

[sante]

If this is footy in 2020, I can see a lot of people losing interest.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Is Soldo a highly skilled footballer? Hell no, although I don't think you'll hear anyone say he is.

That's the issue with people who perhaps considered themselves decent footballers, as they'll see someone like him and take an almost unjust jealously towards him.

The alternative is that they'll compare him to a highly skilled midfielder, forward etc which is a flawed comparison.

The final option is that they'll compare him to a highly skilled Ruckman like Grundy which in itself is flawed. Grundy is on a multi-million 7 year deal, 1st round pick, while Soldo was a category B rookie who never played Footy growing up and would be on 10% of Grundys wage.... Yet he still more than held his own against him. Apart from that first quarter stoppage goal, Soldo was fine and had more impact in the final 10 minutes.

The problem with people "seeing things differently" is the aren't looking at the entire picture.

This is a really great post, but just on the first, bolded line, Soldo is a ruckman with a brief AFL background. If there's no skill involved in beating Grundy to a hitout, then what could you call it? They're the same size, he has no obvious advantage.

Maybe I'm a little guilty of having a 'uses the ball better than Justin Madden' mindset, but I think his overall skill set is phenomenal considering his age and experience.

Combine that with the hardness and mongrel - which surely nobody can miss - and I think he's an absolute ripper.

 

[blaisee]

At this rate of improvement Soldo is on track to be the best ruckman in the league by this time next year.

Thought he was outstanding tonight.

 

[Roksman]

This is a really great post, but just on the first, bolded line, Soldo is a ruckman with a brief AFL background. If there's no skill involved in beating Grundy to a hitout, then what could you call it? They're the same size, he has no obvious advantage.

Maybe I'm a little guilty of having a 'uses the ball better than Justin Madden' mindset, but I think his overall skill set is phenomenal considering his age and experience.

Combine that with the hardness and mongrel - which surely nobody can miss - and I think he's an absolute ripper.

Yeah I perhaps could've worded it better but what I meant was that Soldo will never be a dynamic, silky player. What I should've added most importantly is - he doesn't need to be!

He was very effective tonight and if anyone has seen Grundy impact a game - he wasn't near it tonight. Job done Ivan.

Odlično

 

[Rayzorwire]

At this rate of improvement Soldo is on track to be the best ruckman in the league by this time next year.

Thought he was outstanding tonight.

Glad you said it, blais, I was really wary of being accused of getting carried away.

Missed ya mate.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Yeah I perhaps could've worded it better but what I meant was that Soldo will never be a dynamic, silky player. What I should've added most importantly is - he doesn't need to be!

He was very effective tonight and if anyone has seen Grundy impact a game - he wasn't near it tonight. Job done Ivan.

Odlično

I loved that post and I know what you meant, not intended to take away from the awesome points you made at all. More that generally speaking, people mark the 'skill' of rucks on aspects of the game which don't involve actual rucking. 'He's just a tap ruckman' style disparagement.

It's the toughest role and only getting tougher in the modern era.

 

[richoatthedisco]

We had more free kicks lol

By 1. That in itself doesn't tell you anything. We laid 70 tackles to their 29 and got two holding the ball frees that I can recall. That says plenty.

 

[k31th]

Higgo is great solid interview

for those who missed it.

 

[guruisatiger]

By 1. That in itself doesn't tell you anything. We laid 70 tackles to their 29 and got two holding the ball frees that I can recall. That says plenty.

It tells you we had more free kicks that's what it tells you

 

[biaseddustyfan]

just had a good wank session reading all the salty oppos on facebook reddit bigfooty and what not

truly have missed it. we didn't even win lel

 

[terrybull]

After playing a month of AFL Evolution 2 has twisted my brain completely.

When I saw Bolton and Baker at the start of the game, I thought what the farce are they doing there? They left the Tigers for Sydney and North Melbourne for more cash.... then I realized back to reality...

Then watching the game I realized that Evolution 2 is pretty close to reality.....

 

[AstuteTiger]

My pies mate messaged me and was ropeable with his pies. They only kicked one goal after qtr time lol nothing in the 2nd half.
He also said they were lucky to hold on, I agree the ball was in our fwd line felt like forever.

Let's face it after qtr time we were by far the better team 12 more inside 50's and the tackle count 70 to 29 shows how hard we fought.

That last 5 mins we had more than enough chances, just couldn't nail one more goal.
Jacks shot on goal marked on the goal line why wasn't anyone there to shepherd or push back the defender hard so no one could touch the ball.
Lynch running into goal thought he should've kicked it earlier as he slightly hesitated in trying to straighten up more and that was enough for the pies defender to charge at him and touch it.
Higgins free from front-on contact. Went slightly wide for a point.
Bolton from 50 but that kick hit Castagna on the chest and bounced off with a pies defender rushing it in for a point.
Prestia gets the ball tries to straighten up but got put off by a pies defenders.

Yes, pies had that last chance with brown I think but geez they were far and few between.

Anyway, we take the 2 points and reload.

 

[Do the Dew]

Toast
Soldo - kept Grundy very honest. Took some good marks. Worked his way into the game very well.
Cotch - set the tone early and battled all night
Lynch - kicked 3 while getting scragged and punched in the head by that WB reject
Backline - kept them to 1 goal after 1/4 time. Pretty good effort that. Also controlled the game from the wing after 1/4 time intercepting when the ball came out

Roast
Small forwards - with the exception of Bolton (who is really more of a mid/wing), we didn't put on enough pressure when the ball hit the deck in the forward line. One of the first matches I recall where we didn't get at least 1 holding the ball decision up forward - shows that they weren't under pressure and could clear fairly easily

Oppos who say that we were lucky regarding Higgins' mark. Carey summed it up well live. Because Higgo had hands on the ball before it completely crossed the line - which you can see from the replay - it's a mark. The lack of a fumble was the key. Fair snap on the left too.

De Goey - such a knob. Hair do reminiscent of Guelfi. Goes for the fend, causing the tackle to slip high, then throws out the arms and the head. Bit of biff in the 2nd quarter where I think Stack of Bolton got into him. Good. How this guy is a called a superstar when he averages 16 possessions is beyond me.

Observations
We need to find a way to get past the backline flood. After 1/4 time, they loaded their backline, there were often 2-3 extra Pies players there. Obviously when they get the ball and clear it, we get it straight back. However the shorter quarters don't help because it allows their defenders to not get as fatigued. Potentially just kick the ball on the head of one of their defenders and have Lynch run through them - would make them think twice about sitting in the hole.

Shorter quarters are shit. Allows teams to flood without repercussions/fatigue of defending again and again. This really hurt us last night. An extra 16 mins would have been verrrry nice.

Proud of our fight.

 

[Lsta062]

Last three quarters we toweled them up. They’d parked the bus and we were scrappy so we didn’t score, but I’d say internally we’d be pretty happy with how we played.

I blame Collingwood for the low scores. They just flooded their backline and we couldn’t score. Meanwhile, it didn’t really look like they were intending to score either.

I think I can see us getting back to our best again. We were settling into the game well and perhaps Buckley knew that it would mean a loss unless he restricted us inside 50.