Autopsy Roast & Toast v Collingwood R2 & Changes for Hawthorn

[Lsta062]

Toast
Soldo - kept Grundy very honest. Took some good marks. Worked his way into the game very well.
Cotch - set the tone early and battled all night
Lynch - kicked 3 while getting scragged and punched in the head by that WB reject
Backline - kept them to 1 goal after 1/4 time. Pretty good effort that. Also controlled the game from the wing after 1/4 time intercepting when the ball came out

Roast
Small forwards - with the exception of Bolton (who is really more of a mid/wing), we didn't put on enough pressure when the ball hit the deck in the forward line. One of the first matches I recall where we didn't get at least 1 holding the ball decision up forward - shows that they weren't under pressure and could clear fairly easily

Oppos who say that we were lucky regarding Higgins' mark. Carey summed it up well live. Because Higgo had hands on the ball before it completely crossed the line - which you can see from the replay - it's a mark. The lack of a fumble was the key. Fair snap on the left too.

De Goey - such a knob. Hair do reminiscent of Guelfi. Goes for the fend, causing the tackle to slip high, then throws out the arms and the head. Bit of biff in the 2nd quarter where I think Stack of Bolton got into him. Good. How this guy is a called a superstar when he averages 16 possessions is beyond me.

Observations
We need to find a way to get past the backline flood. After 1/4 time, they loaded their backline, there were often 2-3 extra Pies players there. Obviously when they get the ball and clear it, we get it straight back. However the shorter quarters don't help because it allows their defenders to not get as fatigued. Potentially just kick the ball on the head of one of their defenders and have Lynch run through them - would make them think twice about sitting in the hole.

Shorter quarters are shit. Allows teams to flood without repercussions/fatigue of defending again and again. This really hurt us last night. An extra 16 mins would have been verrrry nice.

Proud of our fight.

Maybe we should have gone for more set shots on the fringe of the 50. If we got a couple of goals in that scenario then it may have forced Collingwood to push into the midfield, opening their defence.

I’d like to see Hardwick address it because Collingwood isn’t the only one that does this. Port Adelaide and Sydney do a similar thing too.

 

[Wallaby]

That was the worst game I've ever seen.

That's harsh.

I mean, it's definitely in the Top-3, but I'm not prepared to be so definite without more thought.



Ok - I've thought more. You're probably right.

 

[lumpinee]

We had so many chances to win that.

Boltons desperation and Vlastuin's in their forward 50 saves us from a loss.

Honestly, not a great spectactle but did we expect it to be?

Toast:
Lynch, Baker, Broad, Bolton, Cotch, Vlas

Roast:
Jack and Dusty had absolute Mares
Ditto Houli
We looked very rusty, very panicky early.

bit harsh on Bachar?

 

[juss]

Also, if that wasn't one of the worst games from Dusty we've seen in a long while. He looked prettt sluggish and wasn't clean at all with his kicking.

There is something about our team coming back from breaks, we suck. They take at least a few weeks to build form and rhythm. We get away with it against Carlton.

 

[lumpinee]

fu** we shoulda won that colonwood did absolutely nothing from 6 mins into the second quarter until the end of the match. like absolutely nothing. we just kept kicking it out or kicking it to them and they'd give it back. shoulda won by 30

had a bit more zest than us tho in the first 6-7 minutes of the last qtr,this is where they saved it,we were running all over them but to theyre credit i felt
that first 6 minutes of the last from collingwood saved them from a sure defeat we dominated yet again for the remainder of that last qtr,just coulndt execute

 

[lumpinee]

Drop Jack. Abysmal.

Graham?

 

[TigerTime88]

Pros
Cotch/Edwards kept us in it when it wasn't going out way.
Soldo - Thought he got smashed in the first half but beat Grundy in the second half.
Higgins - Couple of mistakes but thought he was good.
Houli - Stinker first half but I thought he worked back into it well in the second half and was hurting them. Better for the run.
Bolton - Always looked our best small and proving it week in week out.

Cons
Some decision making was horrible. Worst kicking in a long time.
Rioli - Really worries about Daniel. Is tracking to just be a bit of a nothing player. Just doesn't get involved enough.
Dusty/Prestia Kicking - Had a hocking kicking games but it was very dewy and we know they're guns.
Graham - Similar to Rioli, I am not sure you can carry a guy who doesn't get near it.
Pickett - His intensity is off. Looks laconic which can be fine but not choosing to tackle. Didn't look like he wanted to be out there. Didn't get a touch in the second half.

OUT: Pickett, Graham, Rioli
IN: Ross, McIntosh, Caddy



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[Madtiger2006]

Great draw boys
stacky dropped

 

[Lsta062]

Pros
Cotch/Edwards kept us in it when it wasn't going out way.
Soldo - Thought he got smashed in the first half but beat Grundy in the second half.
Higgins - Couple of mistakes but thought he was good.
Houli - Stinker first half but I thought he worked back into it well in the second half and was hurting them. Better for the run.
Bolton - Always looked our best small and proving it week in week out.

Cons
Some decision making was horrible. Worst kicking in a long time.
Rioli - Really worries about Daniel. Is tracking to just be a bit of a nothing player. Just doesn't get involved enough.
Dusty/Prestia Kicking - Had a hocking kicking games but it was very dewy and we know they're guns.
Graham - Similar to Rioli, I am not sure you can carry a guy who doesn't get near it.
Pickett - His intensity is off. Looks laconic which can be fine but not choosing to tackle. Didn't look like he wanted to be out there. Didn't get a touch in the second half.

OUT: Pickett, Graham, Rioli
IN: Ross, McIntosh, Caddy



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No plz one more chance! He's so cool-headed even though he didn't get involved much. Stack however may need to get dropped. Hasn't started this year well at all.

 

[tora tora tora]

Also, if that wasn't one of the worst games from Dusty we've seen in a long while. He looked prettt sluggish and wasn't clean at all with his kicking.

There is something about our team coming back from breaks, we suck. They take at least a few weeks to build form and rhythm. We get away with it against Carlton.

Lets see what the other games are like this round. I'm expecting similar to last night. Rusty skills & no teamwork. Margins might be greater but us and the pies are both good teams. This round of football is unprecedented; something like the number of days between grand final and preseason games ~ without any team work.

 

[Do the Dew]

Maybe we should have gone for more set shots on the fringe of the 50. If we got a couple of goals in that scenario then it may have forced Collingwood to push into the midfield, opening their defence.

I’d like to see Hardwick address it because Collingwood isn’t the only one that does this. Port Adelaide and Sydney do a similar thing too.

I agree. Particularly with the shorter quarters. If you have the chance to take a shot (particularly a set shot), do it. Case in point was Castagna centering the ball - which Moore intercepted. Because they flooded back so hard, we were always heavily outnumbered going forward. I really wanted Castagna to take a shot - regardless of result. It sends the message that we're looking to score, not set up the perfect goal.

 

[HTT]

I blame Collingwood for the low scores. They just flooded their backline and we couldn’t score. Meanwhile, it didn’t really look like they were intending to score either.

I think I can see us getting back to our best again. We were settling into the game well and perhaps Buckley knew that it would mean a loss unless he restricted us inside 50.

Yep for sure.
I think we really should’ve won regardless. Missed some absolute sodas while pressing in the last, not least of which Jack not making the distance from 35. Reminded me of a couple of games early in 2017.

 

[HTT]

Short quarters aren’t going to favour us this year.

We’re such a systemised team time is important to us. Time enables our superior system and dedication to it to prevail eventually.

No way am I getting ahead of myself, but if we could get it done, this would be our greatest Premiership ever. And that’s after all the injuries we had last year.

When I first read this post I thought ‘nah’
But I do agree I reckon. It gives teams another avenue to beat us. Come out firing and get an early lead then park the bus. Collingwood obviously did it tonight but I think back to when Port did the same thing to us in 2018. The shorter quarters make that a more viable strategy - although they will need a bigger lead than Collingwood had.

 

[tigerdan]

They played us into form, while they shat the bed and unraveled.
A little bit disappointed to not win but our undefeated run continues.

Building a nice stockpile of salt to flood the market with later.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Feck I'm glad I didn't watch that...now to read the game day thread stress free...
I'll take a draw...considering the topsy turvy season from hell...

 

[GoTigers2015]

The commentators didn't pick up on Darcy Cameron's throw to Sidebottom on the wing which set up the pass to Callum Brown.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

He is a total spud and a waste of space to DATE.Whats the point of being there to dominate ruck contests which he didnt anyway, but give it straight to the opposition when he does win a contest. FMD a limited horrid player but hey he performs a limited role well fmd why dont we go and find our own Brodie Grundiy type????

CJ is being groomed to be that type.
I never thought Soldo would make the grade you’ve got to hand it to him his d velopment over 2 years has been incredible. We saw it last year and last night he is actually impacting games. Marking around the ground is a notable improvement from 12 months ago. I wouldn’t discount further improvement you often find big guys like this hitting their straps mid-late 20s

 

[tora tora tora]

Pros
Cotch/Edwards kept us in it when it wasn't going out way.
Soldo - Thought he got smashed in the first half but beat Grundy in the second half.
Higgins - Couple of mistakes but thought he was good.
Houli - Stinker first half but I thought he worked back into it well in the second half and was hurting them. Better for the run.
Bolton - Always looked our best small and proving it week in week out.

Cons
Some decision making was horrible. Worst kicking in a long time.
Rioli - Really worries about Daniel. Is tracking to just be a bit of a nothing player. Just doesn't get involved enough.
Dusty/Prestia Kicking - Had a hocking kicking games but it was very dewy and we know they're guns.
Graham - Similar to Rioli, I am not sure you can carry a guy who doesn't get near it.
Pickett - His intensity is off. Looks laconic which can be fine but not choosing to tackle. Didn't look like he wanted to be out there. Didn't get a touch in the second half.

OUT: Pickett, Graham, Rioli
IN: Ross, McIntosh, Caddy



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Pickett had a good Round 1. Graham & Rioli & Stack in the firing line. Will Caddy be ready? Kmac /Ross: yes please

 

[Tigeral]

My pies mate messaged me and was ropeable with his pies. They only kicked one goal after qtr time lol nothing in the 2nd half.
He also said they were lucky to hold on, I agree the ball was in our fwd line felt like forever.

Let's face it after qtr time we were by far the better team 12 more inside 50's and the tackle count 70 to 29 shows how hard we fought.

That last 5 mins we had more than enough chances, just couldn't nail one more goal.
Jacks shot on goal marked on the goal line why wasn't anyone there to shepherd or push back the defender hard so no one could touch the ball.
Lynch running into goal thought he should've kicked it earlier as he slightly hesitated in trying to straighten up more and that was enough for the pies defender to charge at him and touch it.
Higgins free from front-on contact. Went slightly wide for a point.
Bolton from 50 but that kick hit Castagna on the chest and bounced off with a pies defender rushing it in for a point.
Prestia gets the ball tries to straighten up but got put off by a pies defenders.

Yes, pies had that last chance with brown I think but geez they were far and few between.

Anyway, we take the 2 points and reload.

Summed up perfectly. You’d think one of those chances would come off.
Lynch took an eternity to line up that goal.
Lynch’s mark not paid was another missed opportunity earlier, but felt he should have protected the ball with his body better. Plenty of others much rustier.

STILL IF THIS WAS 2016 BEOWN TAKES THE MARK.....And doesn’t bear thinking about. we’ve come a long way

 

[joelsyt]

Had flashbacks of was it 2015 or 2016? In the last 15 seconds. Thought for sure Grundy was going to kick a goal from that last stoppage. Kudos to Soldo for his work on Grundy last night, did well to nullify him.

 

[Grrr]

yep. stack needs to get dropped

As opposed to every other small forward bar Higgins. Rioli hardly touched it. They had to move Castagna onto the wing to get a touch. Bolton a few nice moments. Stack like the others played his pressure roll but the outside forwards on both sides were useless. Bar Higgins. Hard to be creative when 36 players are camped in your forward line for 3 Q's.

 

[Tigeral]

Has the deliberate out of bounds rule been scrapped? Mercy!!

 

[Grrr]

Had flashbacks of was it 2015 or 2016? In the last 15 seconds. Thought for sure Grundy was going to kick a goal from that last stoppage. Kudos to Soldo for his work on Grundy last night, did well to nullify him.

Soldo was very good. His tap work was average which is not like him, but he bashed Grundy and wore down and in the last Q beat him. Not a bad effort. Soldo also worked well to get back into defence, a luxury Grundy doesn't have to do with 2 x 200cm players in their back half.

 

[69vintage]

Toast
Soldo - kept Grundy very honest. Took some good marks. Worked his way into the game very well.
Cotch - set the tone early and battled all night
Lynch - kicked 3 while getting scragged and punched in the head by that WB reject
Backline - kept them to 1 goal after 1/4 time. Pretty good effort that. Also controlled the game from the wing after 1/4 time intercepting when the ball came out

Roast
Small forwards - with the exception of Bolton (who is really more of a mid/wing), we didn't put on enough pressure when the ball hit the deck in the forward line. One of the first matches I recall where we didn't get at least 1 holding the ball decision up forward - shows that they weren't under pressure and could clear fairly easily

Oppos who say that we were lucky regarding Higgins' mark. Carey summed it up well live. Because Higgo had hands on the ball before it completely crossed the line - which you can see from the replay - it's a mark. The lack of a fumble was the key. Fair snap on the left too.

De Goey - such a knob. Hair do reminiscent of Guelfi. Goes for the fend, causing the tackle to slip high, then throws out the arms and the head. Bit of biff in the 2nd quarter where I think Stack of Bolton got into him. Good. How this guy is a called a superstar when he averages 16 possessions is beyond me.

Observations
We need to find a way to get past the backline flood. After 1/4 time, they loaded their backline, there were often 2-3 extra Pies players there. Obviously when they get the ball and clear it, we get it straight back. However the shorter quarters don't help because it allows their defenders to not get as fatigued. Potentially just kick the ball on the head of one of their defenders and have Lynch run through them - would make them think twice about sitting in the hole.

Shorter quarters are shit. Allows teams to flood without repercussions/fatigue of defending again and again. This really hurt us last night. An extra 16 mins would have been verrrry nice.

Proud of our fight.

Rioli playing uip on the wing was a major factor with us not getting to the fall of the ball and putting tackle pressure .

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[Charlie Pannam]

Balta?
Can perform multiple roles I like having that type of player in the 22.
Also are we carrying 1,to many small backs. Bachar is our best small back but then we have Baker, Short, Stack and I’ll throw in Shedda who is exceptional in that role