ROFL - Cyril Rioli in All Australian Squad - LOLs were had

[Hodgepodge]

They weren't my stats.
Copied them straight from AFL website with the AA squad.

Yup, there's the problem. An even and consistent comparison of data shows that Rioli is well ahead of Milne. It's not even close.

 

[bartel magic]

I'll happily say that i was offended by your comment if you quit dodging the Matthew Boyd question.

Oh I agree Matthew Boyd was very stiff to miss out on AA selection. The question is though, in a season where there has been more midfield depth than ever, who misses out in place of him?
Small fowards on the other hand are a different kettle of fish. There have been only a few who have warranted AA selection. Steven Milne has been by far the stand out in the area, and if you cant acknowledge that, there you clearly are as narrowminded as you seem

 

[mess]

Inb4 Hawks flogs meltdown.

Milne > Rioli

As if we'd bother at this point. It's not our mandate to stop idiot's from self trolling.

 

[Partridge]

I'm surprised no-one has taken this comment from HP to task.
Has there been a single poster in Bay 13 history that has quoted more stats. Hypocrite warning HP..

Personally, as much as I love Cyril, Milne would get the nod first.

Cyril Rioli: Never previously selected. 20 games in 2012. 188 kicks, 60 marks, 119 handballs, averaging 9.4 kicks, 30 marks, 6.0 handballs. 35 goals, 17 behinds. 45 clearances, 81 inside 50m, six rebound 50m. 108 tackles.
Stephen Milne: All Australian 2011. 22 games in 2012. 218 kicks, 81 marks, 56 handballs, averaging 9.9 kicks, 3.7 marks, 2.5 handballs. 56 goals (sixth in the AFL), 38 behinds. 11 clearances, 55 inside 50m, seven rebound 50m. 47 tackles.
How could you pick Cyril before Milne as small forward in the AA team when Milne has kicked 26 more goals.
What is the key ingredient to a small forwards role. It's goals.
Yep, I love Cyril's tackling and effort in keeping it inside 50, but goals have to count more.

Learned long ago not to bother Les, it's just not worth the effort. You can't win arguments with idiots.

Great post by the way. Nice to see objective analysis, not to mention facts.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Oh I agree Matthew Boyd was very stiff to miss out on AA selection. The question is though, in a season where there has been more midfield depth than ever, who misses out in replace of him?

No, according to the criteria of simple statistics, he should be first picked. Remember, the claim is that Milne is the first selection based on ONE stat. You are required to argue the same for Matthew Boyd, who leads in the equivalent stat for a midfielder.

And I quote you:

Steven Milne has been by far the stand out in the area, and if you cant acknowledge that, there you clearly are as narrowminded as you seem

So why isn't Boyd in the squad? Hell, why isn't he favourite for the AA captaincy? This is the question you have to answer to continue your favouritism of Milne.

 

[bartel magic]

According to the criteria of simple statistics, he should be first picked. Remember, the claim is that Milne is the first selection based on ONE stat. You are required to argue the same for Matthew Boyd, who leads in the equivalent stat for a midfielder.

And I quote you:




So why isn't Boyd in the squad? Hell, why isn't he favourite for the AA captaincy? This is a mystery only to those such as yourself.

how would I know!!!!!!.....last time I checked, I wasnt on the AA selection panel
I think Partridge summed it up perfectly in his last post. Especially the bit about not arguing with idiots. It must be shit being you!

 

[Hodgepodge]

how would I know!!!!!!.....last time I checked, I wasnt on the AA selection panel

Not good enough. Remember, Boyd is the best midfielder in the competition according to your views. Explain how he's not in the side or re-think your argument.

It's too late to claim complete indifference.

 

[Les Norton]

Yup, there's the problem. An even and consistent comparison of data shows that Rioli is well ahead of Milne. It's not even close.

Mate, where are you going with this.
Milne scored 21 more goals in 2 extra games.
How does that make Cyril "well ahead" of Milney.
As I said in my first post, I love Cyril, he's an excitement machine, but to risk sounding un-hawthorn I'd much prefer Milne in my side when he's kicked 21 more goals in only 2 more games.

Please explain what makes Cyril "miles ahead", and when you do, make sure you explain to me what a small forward's job is and how Cyril does it better.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Learned long ago not to bother Les, it's just not worth the effort. You can't win arguments with idiots.

Great post by the way. Nice to see objective analysis, not to mention facts.

Is this why you keep knocking over your own stumps? There's no issue with the facts of what Les presented, ,the issue is the unevenness of the comparison, which has to be considered in the age of the sub rule and also when there is unevenness in total games played.

I'm happy to talk stats if we can agree not to mix and match between averages and totals.

 

[Les Norton]

Learned long ago not to bother Les, it's just not worth the effort. You can't win arguments with idiots.

Great post by the way. Nice to see objective analysis, not to mention facts.

Partridge, I will fly the hawk flag on the majority of circumstances; but when things are blatant bullshit; I'll say it.

 

[bartel magic]

Partridge, I will fly the hawk flag on the majority of circumstances; but when things are blatant bullshit; I'll say it.

so thats a "bullshit" then Les?...................

 

[Falchoon]

Bizarre comparison, alternating between totals and averages. Which is it? I personally feel that missing two games and two more games as a sub is a substantial season of football such that averages could be the basis of the comparison.

Totals


1. Averages would have Ahmed Saad in the mix

2. Jamie Cripps averaged more goals per minute than Lance Franklin last year

3.

As we both know, averages are harder to maintain over distance.

All Australian is a home and away individual award much like the Coleman or Brownlow, both of which are decided on totals.

And 0.8 more goals per game.

60% more goals

just doesn't cut it when Rioli enjoy statistical supremacy overall.

On average props up his stats playing in the midfield.

 

[cynical]

junk time cyril should get the sub spot

no AA team would be complete without cyril's elite grubber kicks and his 4th quarter efforts when the hawks are up by 50+

 

[wambat]

Cyril's turnover are silkier.

 

[Les Norton]

so thats a "bullshit" then Les?...................

It is Jimmy.
Calling Cyril "well ahead" of Milne as a small forward is bullshit.
He's a gun Cyril, but Milne has the score on the board to prove. We all hate the little rodent, but if you knock his stats you're just ****ing with yourself. Am I right in saying he's kicked the most goals at Etihad?

 

[bartel magic]

It is Jimmy.
Calling Cyril "well ahead" of Milne as a small forward is bullshit.
He's a gun Cyril, but Milne has the score on the board to prove. We all hate the little rodent, but if you knock his stats you're just ******* with yourself. Am I right in saying he's kicked the most goals at Etihad?

You are indeed. The little predator has had a stellar season, the best of his peers (small fowards) by plenty, and should be rewarded accordingly. Its a shame that some flogs cant put their own biases aside to talk sensibly on the matter

 

[Falchoon]

No, according to the criteria of simple statistics, he should be first picked. Remember, the claim is that Milne is the first selection based on ONE stat. You are required to argue the same for Matthew Boyd, who leads in the equivalent stat for a midfielder.

Milne kicked 60% more goals than the hyped one.

So why isn't Boyd in the squad? Hell, why isn't he favourite for the AA captaincy? This is the question you have to answer to continue your favouritism of Milne.

If Boyd had 60% more possessions than any midfield squad member, he would most certainly be AA captain.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Mate, where are you going with this.
Milne scored 21 more goals in 2 extra games.

Of course he has, I never claimed that Rioli's goal average was on a par with Milne's. Milne's better goal average has to be considered.

Please explain what makes Cyril "miles ahead", and when you do, make sure you explain to me what a small forward's job is and how Cyril does it better.

Absolutely.

So there are two types of forwards, stay at home forwards such as Milne, Betts, etc. And roaming forwards or forward half players, Rioli, Chapman, etc.

Your stay at home forward will kick more goals, but often the roaming forward will have more impact on the game and will be a better player. This has been going on for decades, so it's nothing new. I expect the average football fan to be aware of it.

There are numerous examples of this, but it occured in the biggest scale with Wayne Carey.

Carey won his MVP medals in 1995 and 1998. 63 goals behind Ablett Sr in the Coleman in 1995 and 30 goals behind Lockett in 1998. Yet he was first picked in the forward line.

This is not to compare the small forwards with Lockett and Carey and Ablett. It simply shows how forwards have always been judged on more than goals alone. In the Carey example it was key forwards. In the Rioli example, it's small forwards.

Rioli leads Milne in every stat but goals, he's a massive 30 points ahead of Milne in Champion Data rankings despite being subbed in or out of his last two games. He's clearly the better small forward. This is separate from the discussion of who will be AA, that is according to the criteria of the selectors.

But really there is no argument for Milne being the better small forward. 0.7 goals a game just won't cut it given Rioli's overall statistical supremacy. Check just about any stat and Rioli is well ahead.

 

[Hodgepodge]

If Boyd had 60% more possessions than any midfield squad member, he would most certainly be AA captain.

No on the current proportions where he doesn't make the squad despite being 12% ahead of Dane Swan.

 

[bartel magic]

No on the current proportions where he doesn't make the squad despite being 12% ahead of Dane Swan.

 

[Falchoon]

No on the current proportions where he doesn't make the squad despite being 12% ahead of Dane Swan.

if Milne was 12% ahead of Rioli in goals scored - instead of 60%, Rioli would be a certainty.

 

[MinerBoy]

Congratulations to Cyril Rioli. Thoroughly deserved.

Will be even more enjoyable to witness the angst when he gets selected in the final 22.

 

[mess]

Partridge, I will fly the hawk flag on the majority of circumstances; but when things are blatant bullshit; I'll say it.

I respect that, but disagree. Forward pressure is now a huge part of the job for small forwards, equal to that of straight goal scoring. Combine that with goal assists and versatility Cyril's had a much better year than Milne.

 

[Kayaz]

I respect that, but disagree. Forward pressure is now a huge part of the job for small forwards, equal to that of straight goal scoring. Combine that with goal assists and versatility Cyril's had a much better year than Milne.

How can you say that? in all other statistical areas it's well relatively even, and cyril has played in a side thats top of the ladder and smashing a lot of teams, would say that would of helped with increasing his stats, and milne as a small forward has kicked almost 60 goals, thats a fantastic year, cyril is not even close to milne on this years output

 

[Les Norton]

I respect that, but disagree. Forward pressure is now a huge part of the job for small forwards, equal to that of straight goal scoring. Combine that with goal assists and versatility Cyril's had a much better year than Milne.

No probs with that, at least it's good healthy debate.
If the forward pressure is converting into goals I'll agree, but I still maintain it's hard to be beat 50+ goals for a small forward.
By the way, I wouldn't swap Cyril for anything (except maybe Gazza). He's got a ripping career in front of him, needs to keep healthy which can be a concerm