Roos in Sydney cont....

[Pete]

This is continuation of the Crying Babies Forum. It takes so long to get to the 7th page, it had to be started afresh.

I am a North Supporter and I believe a merger with a Victorian Club would be better for North and the fans who actually want to go to a few games each year. If I wanted to watch my team on TV I'd follow Sydney (My whole family used to follow Sth Melbourne but changed to North when they went north.)
When you look at it though there is only one team who I could see it occuring with and thats Melbourne. Please no, not with the Bulldogs.
The Arden street thing will never happen, the men in charge are slowing changing the face of North to a definate Sydney mould much like the experiences of South. I couldnt believe it at Colonial last Friday against Geelong when the North song before the game had been altered from saying North Melbourne to the Roos and Kangaroos. The end is drawing near and I feel like it is being done very snidely.

Roos in Melbourne for ever.
Pete

 

[Pessimistic]

I'd be particularly concerned that Greg Miller is being Touted for the Collins Job at the AFL.

 

[-TotalFooty2000-]

Thanks Pete for creating a new topic for that incredibly long forum. I am just going to say to Bloodstained Angel that I know the Roos did do a lot of promotion in Canberra at the Ansett Cup games up there. Canberra deserves to have at least one H&A game every year.
I think it is great what the Roos are doing for footy up in Sydney. Keep us informed on the popularity of the game, trends and demographics etc.

------------------
BFN TF2K.
http://go.to/totalfooty2000
http://members.xoom.com/Total_Footy

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Thanks for opening a new thread Pete.

Yeah TotalFooty 2000 - its a real tragedy over what has happened to Australian Football in the ACT. It used to be a rock solid Aussie Rules town untill the AFL decided to virtually ignore development of the game there and surrender almost without a whimper a ready-made market for the game 350,000 people strong to Rugby League.

I think it is absolutely vital for the development of the code up north that the AFL, the Kangaroos (or whoever its going to be) and the Swans all work together and pull out all stops to recapture this imporatnt market for our game.

The Kangaroos have done terrific work there over the last two years or so and any re-location plan must include a plan to play at least one H&A game at Manuaka Oval, which is a well equipped, very picturesque ground that at the moment could hold around 15,000 people.

Manuka Oval with 15,000 there would really rock - put 15,000 in Stadium Australia at Homebush and you would have an atomsphere similar to your average Rugby League game.

 

[Pessimistic]

Here's another slant to the sydney question

Leave North in melbourne where they belong.

Put a new team in Sydney called South Sydney in Green and Red Kit, and just sign up those disaffected NRL fans

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

... in their thousands Pess

But do we really want an AFL team nicknamed the 'Rabbitohs' ????

 

[Joel]

I don't know if its the AFL that wants to move North to Sydney, I think North want to me themselves! We aren't being sarcastic ccridley, most of its based on truth.

 

[Marie]

I'm a Roo fan and I feel totally baffled by people like Pete who declare that if it came down to a choice, they'd choose merger over relocation.

I love my club for what it is, what it stands for, it's history, colours and traditions. If it relocated, it would be the next chapter in our club's history. It would still be our team representing our club's values, just somewhere else.

A merger creates a new entity, a new everything. I don't support North simply because it's in Melbourne.

 

[Stuart]

I'm a Fitzroy Lions fan who takes some interest in the Brisbane Lions.

If Fitzroy had not merged but relocated elsewhere, I would still be a devoted Fitzroy Lions fan. It would not matter that they were not based in Melbourne. I say this with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Gonzo]

Have to agree with you cc

Melbourne have bugger all members and are looking to play home games out of Tassie - and we hear nothing from the media!!! (their membership died in the bum when they decided to play a few games about a kilometre away so I don't think it's going to work somehow!!)

And the Bulldogs are playing a home game in Sydney this year (Smorgon had the gall to call this a great "initiative" as if he'd thought of it first!!) and still we hear nothing!!!

 

[Shinboners]

Let's forget North in Sydney and chat about North vs Sydney for a little while.

Usually, I'm pretty nervous about North playing Sydney at the SCG, but I'm feeling quietly confident. The game will be different from our games in the past 4 or 5 years though.....no Martyn vs Lockett, no Stevens vs Kelly, although on the other side of the coin, we could be seeing the first of many Pickett vs O'Loughlin battles. There could also be a glimpse into the future....it's not quite Martyn vs Lockett, but how about Lange vs Fitzgerald?

I saw the Sydney vs St. Kilda game down here and I was impressed with Sydney's running game. If the Swans can replicate that, they will win. But on a smaller ground like the SCG, there may not be enough room, and so, with less space, the North midfielders may be able to force enough mistakes to keep our forwards with enough of the ball to get a winning score.


Your thoughts Bloodstained Angel?

 

[Pete]

Firstly to Marie:

Two points from me then I'll talk about the next match:
1) I am a North supporter through and through but also an AFL supporter and really want to be able to go to the home games of my team. This isnt going to happen if they are playing out of Sydney. The atmosphere on TV cant replicate the real thing.
2) Being in a family of ex-South supporters who went through all this before (But in a far more caniving manner) it is hard to see it all happen again. Marie said:
'I love my club for what it is, what it stands for, it's history, colours and traditions. If it relocated, it would be the next chapter in our club's history. It would still be our team representing our club's values, just somewhere else.'
Crap, Its all a con, I have been to a couple of family days in Melbourne for Sydney with my Aunt who still follows Sydney and there isnt much 'club history' being talked about. Its a Sydney team with the Opera House on their jumper and a crowd nearly full of bandwagon wanna-be AFL supporters that dont even know the rules. (Dont take offense Bloodstained Angel. Youre the minority who actually follows the game.)
3) As you can tell I dont like many of the supporters up there (I know there are some informed Sydneysiders in this chat room). I went there for a game 3 years ago and the SCG is a Zoo. They had no idea what was going on and for most, werent even watching the game unless Sydney scored a goal and then they would abuse us. They dont support Sydney, they just follow the fun until it runs out then thell move on to something else. Maybe their basketball team will do well next year. My Aunt who is Sydney through and through doesnt even feel any South Melbourne vibes coming out of the club, shes just been converted very slowly by changing one minor thing at a time so that no-one will notice. Look back and see the sum of what has happened at North so far. It isnt minor.

If North moved to Sydney Melbourne would be my next team so I would rather see a merger and at least keep a bit of Norths identity in Melbourne. You may think that is selfish but I dont care.

The game this week,
North always do well in Sydney but the games are generally close. The loss of Mick wont be so pronounced on the small ground and it will also suit our midfielders, some of whom arent the fastest of all time.
My Prediction: North by 10 points.

North in Melbourne for eva:
Pete

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Yeah Shinboner I have to say I am not at all confident about the Swans chances on Sunday.
We were lucky against the Magpies, if they had kicked a little straighter the margin would have been around 4 goals which I thought would have been a more accurate reflection on the game.

Put simply Collingwood got more numbers around the ball, their skills around the packs were sharper and they created a loose man far more than the Swans managed also Sydney fumbled away alot of the 'one percenters' that would normally have bounced our way.

So, given this rather harsh analysis I'm not sure if the Swans can come up against your boys this weekend. Carey was very good in a halfback role last week and he could cause us some real problems if he plays there on Sunday because not only do the Swans lack penetration across half-forward, a rampant Carey could set up Roos goals with just one well-directed kick on the short SCG.

I think the Roos have the edge in toughness (both physical and mental) but the Swans have superior pace, have a slight edge in fitness and know the SCG a bit better than the Roos and of course can always count on the home crowd to make a bit of noise so who knows ?

These two played two very good games last year and I'm looking foward to another classic stoush this time.

 

[madswan]

The best 2 games i went to last year were swans v roos.

Without Martyn I'm going to tip the swans by 3 goals.

If Martyn was playing i'd be tipping the swans by a point.

 

[Roylion]

Having been through all this myself, I'd just ask North Melbourne members this...?

Would you have rather have been the North Fitzroy Kangaroos in 1996 supporting new colours (blue, maroon, white and gold), singing a new song and having to acknowledge the history of another club (Fitzroy) beside your own history. Would you rather have two different sets of supporters or factions within your club...the Fitzroy ones and the Kangaroo ones. (waving different flags and banners) and yet supporting the same club

OR
would you rather re-locate your existing club to another city and maintain your history, traditions, colours and essentially your identity as well picking up many new supporters and markets and possible sponsorships. (of course some Melbourne based supporters may be lost)

For me, there would be no choice. The second option is infintitely preferable to the first.

ccridley, out of the teams that you mentioned Bulldogs, Melbourne and the Kangaroos, the Kangaroos have received the most attention from the media and the public (other supporters) on their plans because...
a) they are playing four games in Sydney compered to one for the Bulldogs and one for Melbourne in Tasmania..
b) the Kangaroos have opened administrative offices in Sydney
c) the Kangaroos are putting far more money into their Sydney venture than the other clubs
d) the Knagaroos have come into open conflict with the Swans over their aggressive marketing strategies in Sydney
e) they were the first team to explore this move in detail
f) they like the Bulldogs (but not Melbourne) have changed their name and song
g) unlike the Bulldogs and Melbourne there is considerable speculation over just what is happening about Arden Street which is badly in need of an upgrade. The funds from the council are still in doubt.

It's not a conspiracy by the media or anyone else to pick on the Kangaroos.

 

[Shinboners]

Bloodstained Angel and Madswan

Injury update from North in case you're putting a few bucks on your team. Carey is carrying a virus and may not play on Sunday. Apparantly he's 50/50. Colbert is having further problems with his hamstring and it looks like he'll be rested. The Clarke-Abraham thing will not be going to the tribunial for a lack of evidence.


Roylion

I can't speak for any other North Melbourne fans, but I did support the merger with (sorry, I mean *takeover* of) Fitzroy. In theory, I would've also supported a merger/takeover of Footscray too. The reason is that I feel that Fitzroy, North Melbourne, and Footscray all had similar cultures, the fit would've been good. But if we were taken over by Carlton (which looked a chance at the end of the 80s), then I probably would've given up football. The things is that while a relocated club retains a larger chunck of their identity than in a merger, the fact is that I cannot go 16 or 17 weekends out of 22 to watch them. Seeing my club on TV is not the same as being at the ground. But that's only my view, and from all the comments by North fans, there is a diversity of opinion. Having said all this though, it's all theoretical. North could end up in Sydney. I could end up following the club as a couch potato. But I could also just walk away. North Melbourne has been one of those constants in my life, so naturally, anything I write is touched by my emotions for the club...so who really knows what they'd do until it happens?

 

[Pete]

Shinboners, I fully agree with you. The proposed merger with Fitzroy would have been great. I think it would have created a very strong Victorian Club to come close to rivalling Carlton, Collingwood etc. I always identified with the plight of the Roy's which was much like North's. Survival. I now see similarities with Melbourne but would die if we merged with the Western Bulldogs. Everyone will have their own reason on who to follow.
Take the Titans in the basketball for example. I know its not footy but they are a recently merged club which draw very passionate supporters from both the old Magic and Giants sides. It worked there between two Melbourne clubs very successfully and I think it would work also in the AFL. Ive been brought up with the typical love of Melbourne and Victoria and could not bring myself to support an interstate team even if was my old team.

PS. Carey seems to always be sick. He was sick in the Ansett Cup Grand Final and now again. Maybe its a reaction to the cortisone I wonder?

Roos in Melbourne for Eva
Pete

[[Pete. I have had to alter this post to protect you and this site (your IP is logged when you post and you can be tracked down). My apologies. - Bluey]]

[This message has been edited by Bluey (edited 05 April 2000).]

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

I've just heard about Carey myself Shinboner apparently he caught a 'bug' up here yesterday while at the media promo for Sunday's game.

Perhaps it was that nasty Sydney drinking water thing again. Us locals are all immune to it but the water qulaity hasn't really changed up here at all since the scare of '98

But hey - he will be ok for Sunday. He's got plenty of time to sleep it off and he can just cram himself full of vitamins and anti-biotics for the game and he'll come up fine.

To Roylion and the other North fans - I don't want to stick my red and white nose in where it is not welcome but - take it from someone who has followed South Melbourne / Sydney all the years they have lived in Australia - re-location keeps the club culture intact.

The old Souths culture did not die in 1982. Sure many many Souths fans deserted the fold when the move happened and the excesses of the Edelstein years further alienated the supporter base. But once the Swans got their act together and started being a serious footy club again the old Melbourne supporter base came back in droves.

So Norths fans - don't despair if the club moves north. You will still be able to see the Roos play in Melbourne at least 8 times a year and your club will not lose any of its culture, in fact they will be bending over backwards to keep your patronage. Just like the Swans do with their Melbourne supporter base.

 

[Don]

Yeah all you lose when your club relocates are the bandwaggoners - the dedicated don't change at all - good riddance to fair weather friends - give me Chardonnay drinkers everytime

 

[Pessimistic]

The fact is most footy personalities talk as if North are already there. Take Rodney Eade today, saying "When they come I hope there's room for both of us"

Perhaps some at Arden St think they are cleverly playing the sydney money game but once they are over the hill, what's to stop the AFL giving them a big shove over the other side (And you can bet they'll want to do that before Carey Retires)

Also North is one of the few clubs where the members have no voting rights in effect. In the end it was only the vote which stopped the Dawks thing.

I hope you guys can fight it as long as possible because the day they get you bedded down in sydney, that's the day they start scheming to move another club to Queensland.

If we do get a league with eight clubs in Victoria, eight interstate (two each in WA,SA,NSW,QLD)The QLD and NSW clubs will have supporter bases still in melbourne the season will look something like this

VIC clubs play all home games (11) in victoria plus half the away games (5-6) that's 16-17 in all. In total there will be 88 (8 x 11) games per season or 4 per week in melbourne. Only one per week will be saturday afternoon. 44 of these games will be between Victorian clubs, of which only a few will nned to be at the MCG
the other 44 will be VIC v I/S clubs. Half of these will feature re-located clubs (22) which will be 5-6 each of Sydney, Brisbane, XXXX or XXXX.
So if your team re-locates interstate expect to see them live at most 6 times per year.

If your club remains here expect all home games v interstate teams to be at colonial. It has already been said that colonial suits WA teams (hard ground) so it could be an 'away' game in melbourne !

Each week there will be 4 games interstate. on average 2 will be between I/S clubs and 2 where I/S clubs host a vic team. As there is a limit how many games can be shown live on TV, if you support a re-located team, or your VIC team is playing I/S you will see only half of those games

I know I've rambled a bit but the pint is if your team locates interstate, not only do you see less games, but other teams (plus swans and lions) have less opportunities also

Looks like Mr Elliots internet membership is looking good

 

[Don]

I'm looking forward to playing the Launceston/Canberra/Broadbeach Dawks and for that matter the North/Western Sydney Dogaroos

 

[get stuffed]

You can all get stuffed, you smug and supercilious victorians, for criticing sydneysiders for following their team. Typical victorian attitude. Superior, but oh so narrow minded. Why don't you just stay in your drab grey holes. How dare you say we in Sydney dont support our team or are in someway inferior in the support we give. Your stadiums are empty, but the swans draw a crowd where ever they play. They are one of the most exciting teams in the league. Living in the past, that's what you all are, you're still living in the days of the vfl. Well, hate to tell you, things have changed. If you have chosen not to continue to follow the swans... well, that does not say much about either your loyalty or your mentality. Swans supporters in Sydney are very supportive of their Melbourne and interstate bretheren. Anyone who barracks for the red and white is family to us! Go Swannies! Stick it right up North Melbourne... and the victorian establishment.

 

[Don]

Maybe you should get a sense of humour

 

[Con]

The comment from Pete was stupid not funny!

 

[Pete]

Christ,
Carey is my favourite player. Ive even got an autographed footy card on my wall he signed. He is my hero. I would never have an intentional dig at him. Lighten up, all of you.
Roos in Melbourne For Eva
Pete