List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

  • Total voters
    332

Remove this Banner Ad

malpaso said:
I don't think anything changed except the opposition. The Pies played extra numbers in the midfield/back, they played 4 forwards. Granted we had awful turnovers, fumbling, missed tackles and a lack of run but honestly I think the Pies tactics won the game for them. After playing so poorly at times we were actually a chance to win the game!
You can't say 'something changed' without saying what it is. You watched the game right? A young side like we have is going to have ups and downs in form while we have some tired older players who are doing a load of work to prop up the young guns.
Oh and we had Sandilands against Melbourne.
Click to expand...

Yep, people have to give Collingwood some credit. They are a hard running, pressure act side- even more so than we are.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

E Shed said:
I also know what I saw last week was alarmingly reminiscent of the awful boring crap we've been dishing up since 13. I accept they were trying to attack through the corridor and there were skill errors and they were tired but what I saw at the MCG against Melbourne was some of the best footy our lot have played and last week was nothing like it. Where were the players queuing up to receive and create?
McCarthy and Kersten who looked like match winners against Melbourne were completely missing and void of confidence. Hughes looked shellshocked. Mundy and Hill look nothing like they did earlier in the year.
Something changed & it worries me, thats all. I hope I'm wrong. You guys all queued up to tell I was being alarmist when I saw the writing on the wall half way through 2015.
Click to expand...

With so much bench time for a few of the up and comers means the others have to work harder. That it's impacting the whole team is no surprise.

The solution is time - time to build the tank of a young team and it's going to take a few years, particularly as we need to turn over more of the list yet - which means more younguns that start without an AFL standard tank.
 
E Shed said:
its not difficult. By adopting a gameplan based on effort over skill i.e. having forwards who prioritise tackling over scoring he gets amazing results and the players buy into this gameplan. When it stops working because the players are tired i.e after losing the 2013 GF the team effort drops off and we are left with a boring mediocre footy team.
For a few rounds after we brought the new players in this year they looked like they were running above the ground. All of a sudden players were running in waves through the corridor and creating exciting changes of play.
For whatever reason last week looked like the old style and suddenly we had no one to kick to and no one who looked like they wanted the ball again.
I know Lyon is a very good coach. I know he can only coach the players he has and are drafting has been average and we've had some terrible luck with high picks.
I know what I'm saying is simplistic and isn't the full picture.
I also know what I saw last week was alarmingly reminiscent of the awful boring crap we've been dishing up since 13. I accept they were trying to attack through the corridor and there were skill errors and they were tired but what I saw at the MCG against Melbourne was some of the best footy our lot have played and last week was nothing like it. Where were the players queuing up to receive and create?
McCarthy and Kersten who looked like match winners against Melbourne were completely missing and void of confidence. Hughes looked shellshocked. Mundy and Hill look nothing like they did earlier in the year.
Something changed & it worries me, thats all. I hope I'm wrong. You guys all queued up to tell I was being alarmist when I saw the writing on the wall half way through 2015.
For the record I fully support Ross Lyon being in charge of this rebuild. I just didn't like what I saw last week. Would like to see Logue and Balic back as soon as possible. They seemed to bring some energy beyond what their basic contributions would account for.
Click to expand...
Hear, hear! IMO Lyon also is a poor man manager. He misses that players can go up and down in output. What is required is 100% output from the team to win, everyone knows that. But within that players will fluctuate in their output/effort. Ross can't read this. Someone like Alex Ferguson can. He sometimes does it without knowing. Walters into the midfield rejuvenated a stagnate player. The he kicks 3 in the forward line. The other side is the persistence with Suban/Mayne for years. WTF?? Great effort players but what of the teams output? The tide goes in and out. You don't sail close to shore when the tide is out, even if its the path that you took last week. Small changes have big impacts and this is a major weakness.
Still think he's a pretty could coach though.
 
malpaso said:
You can't say 'something changed' without saying what it is.
Click to expand...
I thought I did say what it is. Against Melbourne the players looked liked they wanted the ball, they wanted to take the game on, Kersten was running up the wing tacking contested marks, Hughes played with poise, Mundy was brilliant up forward, Neale was unstoppable.
Mainly they were running together, creating chains of handball and moving the ball fluently. Last week we were back to looking like the other team had more players out there as there was no one wanting the ball. It looked uninspired mainly.
I don't know why but that is what changed in my eyes.
 
E Shed said:
I thought I did say what it is. Against Melbourne the players looked liked they wanted the ball, they wanted to take the game on, Kersten was running up the wing tacking contested marks, Hughes played with poise, Mundy was brilliant up forward, Neale was unstoppable.
Mainly they were running together, creating chains of handball and moving the ball fluently. Last week we were back to looking like the other team had more players out there as there was no one wanting the ball. It looked uninspired mainly.
I don't know why but that is what changed in my eyes.
Click to expand...

After a couple of games of the fast ball movement play on style the opposition worked on closing our space, stopping our run and once effecting the turnover they know how to counterpunch. It's been obvious since the Kangaroos game and was blindingly obvious on Sunday. We've got away with a few wins (somewhat luckily) despite this. The lack of a plan B from the coaching team is the real issue.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

E Shed said:
I thought I did say what it is. Against Melbourne the players looked liked they wanted the ball, they wanted to take the game on, Kersten was running up the wing tacking contested marks, Hughes played with poise, Mundy was brilliant up forward, Neale was unstoppable.
Mainly they were running together, creating chains of handball and moving the ball fluently. Last week we were back to looking like the other team had more players out there as there was no one wanting the ball. It looked uninspired mainly.
I don't know why but that is what changed in my eyes.
Click to expand...
I remember years ago Dennis Cometti saying teams that are on the way down and teams that are on the way up first become inconsistent.

I think we were on the way down in the second half of 2015, and I think we hit rock bottom last year.

This year it seems we are on the way back up, but it will not be a linear rise. We have a younger side, and they will wilt under intense pressure from time to time. Our mature players are having to take up some of the slack while the kids learn the ropes. We have guys returning from long terms out of the game who will tire. We have players with injuries or illness from week to week, and with such a "new" list these probably hurt us more than they should.

The one thing I can guarantee is that the coach is not telling them to "go back to the old style" which some here seem to suggest every time we play badly.

This year is a huge advance on last year, but let's not kid ourselves - we still have some massive holes in our list. We have addressed some of them, and will address some more when injuries allow and with our drafting and trading over the next couple of years.

Until then I'm going to enjoy the small wins when they come along and enjoy seeing the next crop develop at Peel.
 
DudleyDocker said:
I remember years ago Dennis Cometti saying teams that are on the way down and teams that are on the way up first become inconsistent.

I think we were on the way down in the second half of 2015, and I think we hit rock bottom last year.

This year it seems we are on the way back up, but it will not be a linear rise. We have a younger side, and they will wilt under intense pressure from time to time. Our mature players are having to take up some of the slack while the kids learn the ropes. We have guys returning from long terms out of the game who will tire. We have players with injuries or illness from week to week, and with such a "new" list these probably hurt us more than they should.

The one thing I can guarantee is that the coach is not telling them to "go back to the old style" which some here seem to suggest every time we play badly.

This year is a huge advance on last year, but let's not kid ourselves - we still have some massive holes in our list. We have addressed some of them, and will address some more when injuries allow and with our drafting and trading over the next couple of years.

Until then I'm going to enjoy the small wins when they come along and enjoy seeing the next crop develop at Peel.
Click to expand...
Bang on ,

Nearly a year out ( fyfe, Sandi , Johnson)
Player that had interrupted pre season
( Grey,deluca,Neale ,apeness, bennell, croz,nyhuis , a.pearce , uebergang, mundy,griffin, hamling ,Kersten, Zak clarke )
Limited preseason ( logue,Sean Darcy , Cox, Luke Ryan, stranadica and duman)

Players that having proper pre season
Weller,tucker,Blakely,langdon ,sherriden, suban ,d.pearce,Dawson , cam Mac, tab , Collins ,s.hill,b.hill , sutty, ibbo,spurr

Goneski- Shane yarren.
 
Last edited:
E Shed said:
I thought I did say what it is. Against Melbourne the players looked liked they wanted the ball, they wanted to take the game on, Kersten was running up the wing tacking contested marks, Hughes played with poise, Mundy was brilliant up forward, Neale was unstoppable.
Mainly they were running together, creating chains of handball and moving the ball fluently. Last week we were back to looking like the other team had more players out there as there was no one wanting the ball. It looked uninspired mainly.
I don't know why but that is what changed in my eyes.
Click to expand...
Scham said:
After a couple of games of the fast ball movement play on style the opposition worked on closing our space, stopping our run and once effecting the turnover they know how to counterpunch. It's been obvious since the Kangaroos game and was blindingly obvious on Sunday. We've got away with a few wins (somewhat luckily) despite this. The lack of a plan B from the coaching team is the real issue.
Click to expand...

Um...just a quiet point.
If the midfield isn't getting the ball (227 possessions only) how exactly are you expecting them to move a ball we don't have?

And when they turn the ball over stupidly how can they create a chain of handballs?

And when the ball is constantly down the defensive end perhaps our forwards are dropping back because we are getting our arses handed to us on a platter and without the extra numbers we'd get toasted?

Perhaps if guys like Neale weren't on about 12 possessions half way through the third while Treloar and Pendlebury were mid 20's we may have had more fluency?
 
Last edited:
I had the misfortune to sit next to an older gentleman on the weekend who started the day saying "We're playing like s**t. Just s**t" and didn't let up for 4 quarters. I just hate that kind of pathetic defeatist attitude. But to quote a Lyonism "it's never as bad as it looks and it's never as good as it looks." the truth which I remarked to people at the time is that when the game was there to be won our inaccuracy killed it. Objectively in the last quarter it was there for the winning lets recap.
  • Dockers kicked 2.7 @ 22.2%
  • Collingwood kicked 4.2 @ 66.7%
  • We missed shots directly in front
  • We turned the ball over for rebound goals twice
  • We only lost by 20 points.
  • Stop one of their's and kick at 66% like they did and we win
So in my book that game was very winnable. No pitchforks required. Yes we got burned on turnovers (can't find the stats to prove it). And when we won the centre taps we scored constantly (particularly in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs) but losing the hitouts 28-45 meant that that was always going to be down on our normal numbers.

There is wailing and hand wringing in the peanut gallery. The cry goes up, fire everyone burn the new facilities to the ground and decry everyone for not looking at some farfetched dream where rebuilding means that we finish in the top 4. I am looking at reality and a young team is always going to drop winnable games and to be honest I am stoked that we have been able formulate a last quarter win so often this season. We are closer than people think. I hate losses but I am content with how the team is doing this season. I can see the growth and the light at the end of the tunnel so to speak.
 
E Shed said:
I thought I did say what it is. Against Melbourne the players looked liked they wanted the ball, they wanted to take the game on, Kersten was running up the wing tacking contested marks, Hughes played with poise, Mundy was brilliant up forward, Neale was unstoppable.
Mainly they were running together, creating chains of handball and moving the ball fluently. Last week we were back to looking like the other team had more players out there as there was no one wanting the ball. It looked uninspired mainly.
I don't know why but that is what changed in my eyes.
Click to expand...

My main concern with Ross is that no matter how much talent we have in the team, he will dampen it by bending the players' will to his. To me the most contemporary coach right now is Beverage, who nurtures players to their strengths and who can change the game plan within a game.
 
manpurple said:
So in my book that game was very winnable. No pitchforks required. Yes we got burned on turnovers (can't find the stats to prove it). And when we won the centre taps we scored constantly (particularly in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs) but losing the hitouts 28-45 meant that that was always going to be down on our normal numbers.
Click to expand...
Both teams had 61 turn overs. Some might argue our turnovers had more of an impact but I remember seeing some stats on the replay showing that Collingwood didn't score that much from turnovers, most of their scores (and all of them early on) were from stoppages.

Whilst in a rebuild I think the only things you want is (a) to have enough A graders on your list that will still be around long enough (for your next tilt), and (b) you see continual growth in the youngsters and get a sense that their ceilings are potentially B grade or higher. Then you just need to pump games experience into your list so they can learn to work as a new team and make small incremental changes to the game plan that exploits your list's strengths and covers for their weaknesses over time. You can't lobby hard to #playtheyoof and then get annoyed when they are inconsistent and make mistakes.

We are currently in the top 8 (doesn't really matter if some think we aren't a top 8 team - we are still there and it's not like we haven't played any top teams - we've played them all except GWS). I don't get how a Freo supporter can be that disappointed about where our list is at and our performances this year given what happened last year. Before the Adelaide game we were the #1 team for using the corridor (not sure if we still are). Thinking that we've gone back to a defence only mindset is a complete contradiction of that fact.

For a team that finished 3rd bottom last year we have one of the toughest draws so I personally don't care too much about win loss. I'm just enjoying seeing our youngsters get some opportunities and experience ahead of another off season to plug some key holes (eg Primary KPF finally!) and a pre-season that focusses solely on our much revised B22 from last pre-season. I'm critical of our coaches for not pulling the trigger at the end of last year and sticking with our stalwarts through the JLT and Rds 1 & 2 but it's pretty clear we're on the right path now and its far from as dire as other clubs who have little to no A grade talent on their lists or haven't even realised they are no chance of a premiership and should actually be rebuilding as well.
 
Sweetback said:
To me the most contemporary coach right now is Beverage, who nurtures players to their strengths and who can change the game plan within a game.
Click to expand...

How good was that deft change of game plan within a game when Beveridge was up against Roscoe this year? Looked a bit scared in the coaching box like he didn't know what hit him but hey, I wasn't fooled.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Similar threads

ubiquitous226
  • Locked
Game Day R10 2024: Euro-Yroke v Walyalup (The Ross Lyon Cup)
48 49 50 51 52
Replies
1K
Views
23K
King Huskii
King Huskii
J
  • Poll
Opinion Who to sack poll
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
theGav56
T
G
Sack Dale Alcock and David Walls
2
Replies
28
Views
1K
Purple Jesus
Purple Jesus
Back
Top