Roughead to CHB - A move so obvious even Clarko can't miss it

[Mater]

Clarko on "On The Couch" (I saw it to so I can confirm this is what he said).

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17636593&postcount=42

Genuine LOL at Clarkson being "quoted" calling Essendon the scum.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Yes. Roughouse is quicker than most midfielders. And he can go hard at the ball.

Put him at CHB and be done with it. Dowler or Lisle or Morton can replace him at the moment.

In the words of John McEnroe "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS". That is one of the more extraordinary statements you have come up with in your bigfooty life.

Part of the reason he was moved from CHB in his early days to the forward was due concerns about his pace. No doubt he has improved his burst off the mark but being quicker than most midfielders is taking it a bit far.

 

[Great 2008]

Such a move is not unheard of. Bradshaw was forced to do it (due to backline issues)playing for Brisbane and was very successfull. It did not mean he would never play forward again for Brisbane or now, Sydney.

Crisis creates opportunity (Has Clarko not spruiked this for years).

 

[Cynic]

In the words of John McEnroe "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS". That is one of the more extraordinary statements you have come up with in your bigfooty life.

Part of the reason he was moved from CHB in his early days to the forward was due concerns about his pace. No doubt he has improved his burst off the mark but being quicker than most midfielders is taking it a bit far.

To be fair I imagine he meant quicker than most of our midfielders.

 

[Brant]

Roughead up forward to provide maximum firepower. No Roughead up forward means Buddy gets a lot more attention than he already does. Can't have that.


Agree with this to an extent LE but not in full.

If Roughy moved to CHB then it doesn't mean the end of Buddy - it means that our plan changes slightly. Buddy could beat all 6 defenders on the lead so he need only concentrate on 2 things: Lead & mark. If he tries to wrestle then he will be monstered by 2 or 3 opponents and we all know how that ends...

What we would need to do is to play small forwards & get the ball in quick. Rioli, Hooper, Brown, Osborne & Ellis / Lewis as smalls would change the dynamic of our forward structure. If Roughy was back & assuming he could assist the backline with clearing the ball instead of stuffing around with it there is no reason the mids couldn't run / carry & deliver in this manner.

If we ever get Burgoyne & Mitchell back I would send Hodge down to play on a HBF beside Roughy & really get the backline to stand up.

 

[Teamwork Talks]

As others have said Roughead is our leading goal kicker and has played well in all but the last 2 games. Keep him on the forward line.

Bring it Dowler as the third tall on the forward line to take some pressure of Roughhead.

 

[hardway]

As others have said Roughead is our leading goal kicker and has played well in all but the last 2 games. Keep him on the forward line.

Bring it Dowler as the third tall on the forward line to take some pressure of Roughhead.

Then we bring in lisle to take the pressue of Dowler

 

[Hawkamania!]

We have a glaring weakness in defence in the KPD department and Roughie is the best option. Roughie will help Gilham and Shoenmakers against opposition tall forwards.

It is time to bring Lisle and Dowler up together. We need to replace Roughie forward with a tall and give Renouf some rest from rucking during games. These two players are the best options we have at the moment and we need to change things up as the current setups aren't working.

It may be like robbing Peter to pay Paul, but lets face facts, Paul is in dire straights at this time and Peter can survive on a leaner income.

 

[halfback dasher]

Maybe turn Schoey into a KPF

Thats wat he was till he came to us....

 

[Brant]

It may be like robbing Peter to pay Paul, but lets face facts, Paul is in dire straights at this time and Peter can survive on a leaner income.

Peter need not even earn less, simply the way that he makes his cash must change slightly... Ie. Our crummers actually do some crumming & get a kick or two in the Forward 50 rather than getting them on the wing or back flank.

 

[Brant]

On this point (Roughead to CHB), does anyone in the know, or anyone who attends & watches training, actually think that Roughy will move to CHB or is it simply posters 'blowing off steam'? (Even for just a week or two to try it out).

- Moving a KPF to KPB to cover a hole is not new.
- Our need for a CHB is not new.
- Roughy being a big bodied guy with the potential to play CHB is not new.

I just feel that somewhere over the last 18 months Clarko has probably considered the move and obviously not thought it worth doing - hence the big fella remains at FF & we get whipped weekly for having a s&*t defence...

If he (Clarko) hasn't yet thought things are bad enough to make that change then I suggest we aren't likely to see the change for this week's game either... Kinda deflating really...

 

[Leather Poisoning]

On this point (Roughead to CHB), does anyone in the know, or anyone who attends & watches training, actually think that Roughy will move to CHB or is it simply posters 'blowing off steam'? (Even for just a week or two to try it out).

- Moving a KPF to KPB to cover a hole is not new.
- Our need for a CHB is not new.
- Roughy being a big bodied guy with the potential to play CHB is not new.

I just feel that somewhere over the last 18 months Clarko has probably considered the move and obviously not thought it worth doing - hence the big fella remains at FF & we get whipped weekly for having a s&*t defence...

If he (Clarko) hasn't yet thought things are bad enough to make that change then I suggest we aren't likely to see the change for this week's game either... Kinda deflating really...

I get the feeling we might see a bit of a change from what we have seen to date.

The selection table might give us a bit of a clue on Thursday night.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Leaking goals like a sieve, and he's not kicking any so it makes sense to all of us.

Clarko and his stubborn game plan will mean it aint gonna happen though I'm afraid.

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

Well you'd hope so...

Whether it is CHB or FB doesn't matter really, he needs to be played at a key defensive post desparately on who ever he suits on the day. Provided they say he's ya man don't let him touch it, and as he gains in confidence he can spread out and chop off leads etc. Thats not having a go at him its just all of our back 6 need to be accountable.

It's fair to say he has all the attributes to be one of the best CHB/FB in the comp and yes he's a very dangerous forward, but the defense is where its at as far as restricting the opposition bearing in mind your mids/forwards have a go...and we leak way to many easy goals.

In attack, we (as in our coaches) have the upper hand and can mix it up to throw the opposition off guard and score through other means. Not been as predictable may be a benefit.

I'd leave Roughead down back for the rest of the year and play Schoey forward and bring both Lisle(back) and Dowler(forward) into the side provided they're fit...not even in form, just fit and and they can share the ruck duties as needed.

What is there to lose

 

[DannyJ]

I think Roughead needs to play forward. It up to our club to get the best out of him.

Rioli Franklin Peterson

Hooper Roughead Dowler

I think in season 2011, this needs to be our forward line. Established.

 

[HawksILove]

Dowler always plays from behind, he is a weak link

 

[DannyJ]

Dowler always plays from behind, he is a weak link

We need a third tall forward. We have 16 matches to allow him to prove himself. If it doesn't work, delist him, try another player (draft/trade).

 

[HawksILove]

He has been with us for 4 years and has shown nothing much

 

[jiphoc]

He has been with us for 4 years and has shown nothing much

 

[Brishawk]

(Recent) Precedence of moving a good FF/CHF to CHB/FB

Chad Cornes - Port went from a very good team to premiers. Did not affect their scoring with him out of the forward line despite no notable kpf to replace him.

Trent Croad - took a couple of years but the move was a key part of our premiership success. We scored more each with each season Trent played back with his permanent move back in 2006. He was replaced by some kid named buddy.

Leppa - went from been inconsistent FF to an All Australian CHB in a triple premiership team. they did have some pretty good forwards to replace him though.

Daniel Merrett - ok so no premiership yet but the guy is a monster in the backline.

Chris Tarrant - again, no premiership but look at Freo go now. Looking at their team, you would not have thought they could kick a score with only PAV up forward but with a solid backline they are going all right.

I think the first two examples in particular show that a player may even be in reasonable form as a forward but what was best for the team was to put a quality player to sure up the back line.

 

[killerspud]

To me this should have been the obvious thing to do really the moment that Croad went down. He would dominate games at CHB especially flanked by Gibson and one of Hodge/Burgoyne. His field kicking has always been really good (just aski Buddy), his goal kicking has always been a bit shaky and with his confidence down he now is like watching Mooney.

But you know the best part of this set up is...we can always throw him down forward as a plan B - especially with his confidence back up as he sees his value to the team,

It also means Schoenmakers can develop without the pressure of playing as a defender and learn more about being a back by playing forward.

I can't believe that everyone isn't behind this idea 100% - BrisHawk is spot on with the analogies.

Finally I think he is a guy who tends to coast a bit - obvious talent and size has meant that he has been able to take it relaxed - he has always lacked a little intensity. I think moving him back means he will have to pick it up as you can't not be in the game when you are playing on Barry Hall

 

[MC_9]

To me this should have been the obvious thing to do really the moment that Croad went down. He would dominate games at CHB especially flanked by Gibson and one of Hodge/Burgoyne. His field kicking has always been really good (just aski Buddy), his goal kicking has always been a bit shaky and with his confidence down he now is like watching Mooney.

But you know the best part of this set up is...we can always throw him down forward as a plan B - especially with his confidence back up as he sees his value to the team,

It also means Schoenmakers can develop without the pressure of playing as a defender and learn more about being a back by playing forward.

I can't believe that everyone isn't behind this idea 100% - BrisHawk is spot on with the analogies.

Finally I think he is a guy who tends to coast a bit - obvious talent and size has meant that he has been able to take it relaxed - he has always lacked a little intensity. I think moving him back means he will have to pick it up as you can't not be in the game when you are playing on Barry Hall

100% agree, i cannot believe that people are still fighting the idea of the Rough one back.

At first i was against it, because it would take away from our forward line, but the more you think about it the more obvious it becomes.

We do not have single KPB (we have a number 3rd options), yet we have a bloke up forward that kick a 100 goals, can we really afford to have two monster forwards, yet have our back line monstered each week.

Lets have the best bookends in the League, there is no doubt in my mind that Rough can be a AA CHB/FB.

 

[NicG]

(Recent) Precedence of moving a good FF/CHF to CHB/FB

Chad Cornes
Trent Croad
Justin Leppitsch
Chris Tarrant

Given his current momentum-killing accuracy woes, it is such an obvious move that no-one at Hawthorn can have failed to consider it. The question is: why has it been dismissed without even giving it a try? Can he really be so bad at it? I seem to remember him playing in defense on Richardson (and others) early on in his career and breaking even.

Roughead was training with the forward group today ... not that that really means anything. It was just quick hit-out to loosen up after the weekend, and I'm sure they wouldn't telegraph the move so openly in a public training session.

Last year we were so bereft of a KPD that Robbie Campbell was played down there, even to the point of having two other ruckman in the team. Nothing has changed this year (now that Gibson is gone) and Clarkson has publicly said that Gilham is a better player when he doesn't have to mind the big forward. There literally is no better option than Roughead.

Franklin will obviously need help up forward to avoid being triple-teamed and Schoenmakers and/or Dowler should be first cabs of the rank there.

 

[WoGiTaLiA]

Roughead to Defense?

Hey all, figured this was the best place for this, the "are injuries to blame for Hawthorn" thread got me thinking about the title. I'll apologise in advance if anything seems unreasonable in what I say, I don't follow your team overly closely...

Basically since Croad went down your structure has been all wrong defensively. You are forced to have guys like Gilham and Murphy punch above their weight and it seems to flow on downward and forces Hodge or whoever else is playing the QB role to sort of pay extra attention to their matchups instead of just flowing with the game and it seems to consistently hurt the team overall.

So I was was thinking about Roughead going back to defense. I seem to recall that he played some there both as a junior and in his first season and I don't recall him being bad at it. He is currently struggling a bit in the forward line, seems a bit flat, but similar to Tarrant with Fremantle, he has all the physical gifts to go back and beat the best forwards in the game and by doing so he would push Gilham and Murphy to 2nd and 3rd key defenders. Just from watching the Sydney/Brisbane game I saw the same sort of difference when you take the top defender out and how average 2 and 3 will look if outclassed, you guys are like a season long version of that.

So if Roughy goes back you can hopefully make that change where your defenders are facing guys at a more comparable level, if Roughy goes well he gets his confidence back.

Here is perhaps where I stretch it, but it also opens up a spot up forward for Beau Dowler, haven't heard anything on him this year, but he was an awesome CHF as a youth and looked really good last year when he got a shot up forward and has consistently looked lost in defense imo at least. So by throwing Roughy back you would hopefully strengthen the defense and not lose a lot up forward, potentially even gain on what Roughy is currently offering. You guys may have another young KP player in mind but this is just extra spit balling anyway...

Anyways, any thoughts, faults or anything in my thinking? What do you guys think as obviously it's your team and you will know as much or more than me about them? I don't expect Clarkson would do it, but I like the idea in theory...

 

[Anthemy]

Re: Roughead to Defense?

Yeah lots of people on bf are calling for this.
It's maybe robbing pete to pay paul.
But i think it could at least be tried, roll the dice.