Strategy Round 1, 2014

[SuburbanMe]

Terlich can't defend for shit at the moment

That have anything to do with it being the offseason?

 

[blured]

Finally. Some sanity.

FFS people lauding Kent as some sort of rare gem... He's a fat, raw 18 that payed with a bit of heart. Jimmy Bartel he ain't. Perspective people.

Are you calling him a fat kent

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Stats mean little. For instance...

Jetta has 96% shitness about him. He is in the top two at Melbourne in regards to shitness.

 

[Demon 16]

This may be perhaps the most ridiculous thing that you have heard. But...
Jetta has an outstanding disposal efficiency of 86.4% which would be great for a team of only 70% disposal efficiency his composure and accuracy are elite even in the AFL. Those elite skills could be greatly efficient within helping setting up the play behind the centre square, it would also be greatly effective within ensuring the ball is in safe hands in the defensive 50 therefore making it more likely it'll be able to clear the defensive 50 and make sure that it is to a layer which will greatly help set up play of half back.

50% of Jettas' possessions are all contested. This is another area in which Melbourne Is lacking especially. With Melbourne having the least amount of contested possessions in 2013. And although 50% of Jettas' possessions are all contested he can still dish of disposals under a contested situation with a disposal efficiency of 86.4% (the highest disposal efficieny at Melbourne).

Jetta also averages 4 tackles a game the third highest amount of any demons player. But if you take Sylvia out of the equation Jetta becomes the player with the second highest tackle average. Although this isn't a stat that Melbourne are particularly weak in they are still the eleventh in the league for most tackles. So it always helps to have another player who can dish out a decent amount of tackles. And due to Jetta also being able to play forward and back it also means that he can create great pressure in the forward 50. Something that is detrimental to the modern game. Or it could also be used to slow down the pace of opposition attempting to flood the forward 50 and slow the opposition down even if it isn't caught holding the ball they still have to stop and set up all over again due to the stoppage that the tackle had created.

I'm not suggesting that he'll be in the first 22 but am I the only one that thinks he can become a regular half way through the season if he has some great VFL form?


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Welcome to the board Neville

 

[SPC 98]

Can't say i recall Nev ever kicking a ball.. But i'm sure that if he hit a target, he would have 'stuck out'

 

[SPC 98]

Are you calling him a fat kent

Kent will be a handy player.. Showed quite a bit and is as hard as a cats head! Got a big strong core which will help him -he will be better next year.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

My major problem with this board is that people allow their dislike of certain players to cloud their interest in the team itself.

You all behave as if you want players like Jetta to be useless and remain useless. Surely the MFC benefits the most if Roos gets the most out of Jetta? If he teaches him how to get his hands on the ball so that he can use his very good disposal for the good of the team? As much as anyone else I would have delisted Neville this season and probably not rerookied him, but I'm still going to hope like hell that he improves over the offseason and becomes a best 22 player.

On Kent, I actually really like the kid. Hard at it and takes the game one. Has pace too, which is something we need.

 

[tynanshinin]

FB: Garland - Frawley - Terlich
HB: Grimes - McDonald - Clisby
C: Tyson - N.Jones - Toumpass
HF: Vince - Dawes - Howe
FF: Clark - Hogan - Blease
FOL: Gawn - Viney - Trengove
INT: Michie, Cross, Watts
SUB: Evans

Emg: Dunn, Salem, Fitzpatrick

 

[Andy_Mac]

So you flog him for his stuff ups, but give no credit for the quality guys he brought in?

That a wee bit unfair isn't it? Also, He wasn't responsible for Farking up the club. The club has been Farked for years. Atleast Neeld traded in Some good players and got fitness levels up to where they should be. Try looking at the positives, makes life a tad easier.

Turky I think I'm one of only 5 jetta fans here. Your post was a good read, Thanks!

Quality?? He bought quality in?

Clark was a tick, but who else? Some speculative kids?

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Quality?? He bought quality in?

Clark was a tick, but who else? Some speculative kids?

Dawes, Kent, Terlich, M Jones, Clisby, Hogan, Barry.

 

[SuburbanMe]

Quality?? He bought quality in?

Clark was a tick, but who else? Some speculative kids?

Well Jack Attack has addressed that question, but I guess you didn't see that I kinda addressed your question before you asked it about a page or so back when you first mentioned how EVERYTHING Neeld did was shit.

He also got Jesse Hogan, Mitch Clark, Dean Terlich, and Chis Dawes.

So what's your point?

 

[Tulip]

Dawes, Kent, Terlich, M Jones, Clisby, Hogan, Barry.

To be fair to andy, i think Kent, Clisby and especially Barry fit under the speculative comment.

 

[Andy_Mac]

Dawes, Kent, Terlich, M Jones, Clisby, Hogan, Barry.

Value is a relative term.

We paid through the anus for Dawes. He is a good ordinary footballer at best. i predict he'll play more VFL than AFL football if he is fit this year. Kent has shown next to nothing, in a decent side he wouldn't have got close to an AFL game. Unfit and a selfish footballer, what a combo. Terlich is speculative but looks ok (keep in mind Roo's has already delisted the bloke once before). M Jones is a VFL footballer, he wouldn't get a game in many sides best 22's. Clisby yeah maybe, a big maybe. And the Hogan trade again we paid overs. We also should have picked Jed Anderson instead of Barry

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Lots of teams with Cross on the bench and guys who might never be as good as him starting.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Value is a relative term.

We paid through the anus for Dawes. He is a good ordinary footballer at best. i predict he'll play more VFL than AFL football if he is fit this year. Kent has shown next to nothing, in a decent side he wouldn't have got close to an AFL game. Unfit and a selfish footballer, what a combo. Terlich is speculative but looks ok (keep in mind Roo's has already delisted the bloke once before). M Jones is a VFL footballer, he wouldn't get a game in many sides best 22's. Clisby yeah maybe, a big maybe. And the Hogan trade again we paid overs. We also should have picked Jed Anderson instead of Barry

Picks after 20 (which we gave up for Dawes) - Tim Broomhead, Nathan Hrovat, Dean Towers, Marcus Paparone, Nathan Wright, Spencer White. I'd prefer Dawes tbh. He was huge against the Bulldogs when we actually won, and I'm hesitant to judge any of our forwards this year regardless, given the tripe delivery they had from our shambles of a midfield. Dawes will be better once fit anyway.

Kent, Jones and Terlich were picks 48, 52 and 68. Not exactly high stakes, so I'm going to borrow your argument regarding 'value' being 'relative'. I think people forget that Kent was the same age as Viney and Toumpas last year. As far as first year players go he certainly showed enough to be worth a top 40 pick. Matt Jones and Dean Terlich were huge for us this year and we would have been a significantly worse side without them, which is saying something. Again, they cost us almost nothing. What does the fact that Roos delisted Terlich 5 years ago have to do with anything? Clearly he's improved since then. Clisby, again, was a rookie pick. It's about 1 in every 10 of those that even look competent at AFL level and he certainly did more than that.

Hogan, yeah we paid overs, but having seen him this year I certainly wouldn't reverse that trade. Kid will be a freak. Barry hasn't even played a game so I won't comment there.

I don't know why I'm bothering given that I despise Mark Neeld. I just can't stand the constant, contrived pessimism on this board.

 

[master bate]

Lots of teams with Cross on the bench and guys who might never be as good as him starting.

Your point? If the team named on paper plays like real AFL he'll be on the field after 2 minutes.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Your point? If the team named on paper plays like real AFL he'll be on the field after 2 minutes.

Yep. The last team to have Cross on the bench also has Jack Watts on the bench. It's not so much an indicator of quality as ambiguity to their role.

 

[master bate]

Value is a relative term.

We paid through the anus for Dawes. He is a good ordinary footballer at best. i predict he'll play more VFL than AFL football if he is fit this year. Kent has shown next to nothing, in a decent side he wouldn't have got close to an AFL game. Unfit and a selfish footballer, what a combo. Terlich is speculative but looks ok (keep in mind Roo's has already delisted the bloke once before). M Jones is a VFL footballer, he wouldn't get a game in many sides best 22's. Clisby yeah maybe, a big maybe. And the Hogan trade again we paid overs. We also should have picked Jed Anderson instead of Barry

I don't see Hogan as overs. The trade was 3 (or in effect 4) and 13 for Hogan and 20 with Barry as steak knives. The difference between 13 and 20 not neccessarily being huge and Hogan been worth every bit of pick 3. Without getting Hogan last year we likely would've had to keep pick 2 this year to use it on him anyway.

Jed Anderson over Barry sure. But I don't think that option was available to us. Barry was very much the steak knives on the Hogan deal where as the Hawks gave up Gilham for Anderson. Gilham didn't have much currency and performed pretty abysmally (who would've of thought the hawks selling a lemon hey) but as witnessed this year GWS are willing to give up a fair bit for mature players especially if that player is a key back.

The final consideration of that trade is Viney going through to the second round as it was a 3 way consideration with Gold Coast who used their pick 2 to secure Jack Martin and if that deal got hit on the head I think they would've nominated Viney.

I think you underrate Dawes as well. The injuries are my biggest concern. The mid level talent doesn't bother me nearly as much because they way I see him is he was very much yet to reach his peak at Collingwood because Cloke really took his position (Dawes is much better suited leading up than playing deep) and he hadn't fully matured. Most key forwards haven't peaked at 23. He's another good leader/culture guy as well. For pick 20 I saw him as better value than Vince.

 

[Captain Jack]

I'm a fan of Kent. People need to cut him a heap of slack here IMO... I mean how tough did he have it this year? The side won two games, generally had about 30 I50s and there he was going stone cold on the HFF getting 5 touches a game. Also, when the ball did get near him it was generally kicked over his head or otherwise to his general disadvantage.

Given the circumstances I think he's shown plenty.

 

[master bate]

Yep. The last team to have Cross on the bench also has Jack Watts on the bench. It's not so much an indicator of quality as ambiguity to their role.

Not so much Watts, I think he'll get a pretty simple role of play on the wing/half forward/half back and get the ball in space and use it. But Cross I think will be used as a mr fix it. If we aren't running hard enough on the outside then I'd put him there. If we aren't winning the ball then I'd move him there. I'd consider him for a lock down forward as well.

If Cross is used as the 21st man then it probably means we are having a pretty good season. If he's dropped it means we are either having a great season that's good enough to put him in the 2's or we are having a rubbish season and may as well play kids. The bulldogs did half a year of both last year!

 

[master bate]

I'm a fan of Kent. People need to cut him a heap of slack here IMO... I mean how tough did he have it this year? The side won two games, generally had about 30 I50s and there he was going stone cold on the HFF getting 5 touches a game. Also, when the ball did get near him it was generally kicked over his head or otherwise to his general disadvantage.

Given the circumstances I think he's shown plenty.

No doubt the new boy usually gets rose coloured glasses but I the thing that impressed me was despite looking like he'd be better with a few good preseasons Kent made more of an impact on most games than Davey/Blease/Tapscott/Byrnes. Sure that's not beating much but if in your first year you can do what 4 guys who have many years on AFL lists cant then you must be doing something right. Not to mention he has a lot of attributes that are to like - speed, strength, hardness, left footer and likes the contest of AFL. The unfortunate thing is that I've been to a few training sessions this year and haven't even spotted Kent.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

I'm a fan of Kent. People need to cut him a heap of slack here IMO... I mean how tough did he have it this year? The side won two games, generally had about 30 I50s and there he was going stone cold on the HFF getting 5 touches a game. Also, when the ball did get near him it was generally kicked over his head or otherwise to his general disadvantage.

Given the circumstances I think he's shown plenty.

Yeah I'm a big fan of Kent and was going to say this about him too, but I'd already said it about Dawes. Anyone playing in our forward line had it seriously tough this year. Very few opportunities to get your hands on the ball, which is not ideal for a first year player looking to improve.

One 'deficiency' he has that can easily be medicated is that his attack on the ball is sometimes too fierce, and he leads too hard and it is kicked over him. Things like that will improve with time and he'll be a better player for it. His defensive pressure is an attribute too, that we very much need. Unfair to call him selfish when he saw very little of the ball.

 

[Turky]

Welcome to the board Neville

You got me.


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[Andy_Mac]

I don't see Hogan as overs. The trade was 3 (or in effect 4) and 13 for Hogan and 20 with Barry as steak knives. The difference between 13 and 20 not neccessarily being huge and Hogan been worth every bit of pick 3. Without getting Hogan last year we likely would've had to keep pick 2 this year to use it on him anyway.

Jed Anderson over Barry sure. But I don't think that option was available to us. Barry was very much the steak knives on the Hogan deal where as the Hawks gave up Gilham for Anderson. Gilham didn't have much currency and performed pretty abysmally (who would've of thought the hawks selling a lemon hey) but as witnessed this year GWS are willing to give up a fair bit for mature players especially if that player is a key back.

The final consideration of that trade is Viney going through to the second round as it was a 3 way consideration with Gold Coast who used their pick 2 to secure Jack Martin and if that deal got hit on the head I think they would've nominated Viney.

I think you underrate Dawes as well. The injuries are my biggest concern. The mid level talent doesn't bother me nearly as much because they way I see him is he was very much yet to reach his peak at Collingwood because Cloke really took his position (Dawes is much better suited leading up than playing deep) and he hadn't fully matured. Most key forwards haven't peaked at 23. He's another good leader/culture guy as well. For pick 20 I saw him as better value than Vince.

Look I'm happy to have Hogan, very happy in fact, but we should have forced the issue and got Anderson. Also taking a sliding doors view point we could have drafted; Wines, Brodie Grundy (p13), Hogan and say Matt Couch (our second round selection this year), rather than Hogan, Barry, Dawes, Tyson and Salem. I prefer the aforementioned myself.

Kent I don't rate, but at the pick we took him its really here nor there for mine.

Dawes for me is a little confusing. Sure he has upside IF he can get his body right. But I don't see the role he's going to play in our side commensurate to the draft pick we gave up and more relevant the salary with which we are paying him. He is at best a 3rd tall that can only pay as a tall forward.

 

[Turky]

B: Terlich Garland Frawley
HB: grimes T.Mcdonald Clisby
C: Vince Viney Watts
HF: Trengove Clarke Howe
F: Fitzpatrick Hogan Kent
R: Jamar N.Jones Viney
I\C: Tyson Cross M.jones
Sub: Evans
Emerg: Salem Toumpas Jetta

I had to choose Kent being a west Aussie myself as you can probably tell with Jetta (Emerg) , Kent and Hogan I may be a bit bias but Kent's dash had been something I've really enjoyed seeing around the half forward and I think he's got a mature enough body to at least attempt to match it with the big boys at AFL level in the first round as well as giving proof from last year. Bit of course all of my selections depends on how well there pre-seasons are.

Another controversial pick is Fitzpatrick over Dawes. Fitzpatrick is 7cm taller then Dawes and therefore can help out Clarke and Jamar in the ruck greatly and more efficiently then Dawes. And maybe allowing Clarke to be a little more of a stay at home forward. As well as I like what I saw from Fitzpatrick in 2013 a lot.

Evans instead of Salem due to experience. Salem hasn't played a senior match yet. I think it would be cruel to throw him in the deep end in the first game of the season. I think it would definitely lead to a low confidence being absolutely smashed in you first match of AFL. Hogan doesn't count because he played senior football all last year and held his own with 36 goals so I think he's definitely earned his place in the side through a whole year in the VFL and of course if his Pre-season goes to plan.



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