Autopsy Round 1 Post-game thread DRAW against the Blues

[Tiger_Of_Old]

And a collection of quality plays throughout the game enjoy




On top of that, there's even more GIF's, as usual ->
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/richmond-gifs.1047662/post-78301088

Our smiling assassin

 

[Calcium Man]

It’s unfortunate we didn’t win, but the two most concerning aspects prior to the season was the hunger there, and consequently the pressure and would our defence look like it was at our best.

They were both ticks, we traditionally grow into a season under Dimma, so have to believe based on history we will be better after the bye.

The worst part was obviously the messy connection between our forwards and the rest of the team, but again that’s fixable. Dusty and Bolton had 41 touches and 15 i50s between them, which should terrify teams, but only 8 score involvements. For context Bolton averaged 7.5 and Dusty 7 last season, and Dusty was supposedly down last year, and both have consistently at that kind of mark for awhile so have to assume they’ll regress back to the mean as the season goes on.

 

[Grrr]

I thought the quality of those entries and the execution from our forwardline was so poor that we needed that many opportunities to just score with them on a score of 58. Watching the final quarter, Carlton looked like the winner the entire time

I50's are pointless if they never translate to goals. Just like defensive I50's are pointless if the other team gets an easy goal every second one.

Which is where Cumberland is so good, chaos king with class

 

[Livonski]

Has me baffled too. Then to hear Dimma say because he plays similar to Dusty was even more mind blowing.

Do you think he might be holding some details back from the media?
Seriously. Cumbo is best 22 if he wants to be. His exposed form atm suggests he is not there yet.

 

[All Aust]

Dimma post game - we lack polish.
Polish =
High conversation rate of score attempts to goals
Low turnover numbers

Coach is pretty much on the mark.

Tigers pretty good at limiting needless free kicks but polish to be found.

Don't understand the posters who think that replacing Mansell with Cumbo is the fix. Different role players these two. This call highlights a lack of understanding of team balance.
Any Mansell replacement will focus primarily on defence / containment. Something the team were very good at Rnd 1.
Cumbo is about score polish. He replaces a player whose primary function is to score maximum when the ball is in the forward 50.

 

[CASEYS9420]

The Adelaide game was one of our worst performances of 2022, they jumped us and it made Himmelberg look like Wayne Carey. I consider the Crows midfield the worst in the league alongside the Hawks & Bummers, clearance should be strength of ours on Saturday. So Clarke in for Mansell, put Miller permanently at FB & play Ryan this week.

 

[Groupie_]

The Adelaide game was one of our worst performances of 2022, they jumped us and it made Himmelberg look like Wayne Carey.

umpires jumped us

 

[Spanish_Fly]

All this

Our defence and Midfield was very good
Our foward line structure was terrible and entries were just not effective

Every time we entered our foward 50 there was 15 defenders inside the 50 and when Carlton went into their 50 there was so much more space
Why ? Was it Carlton flooding ? Why couldnt we spread them more ?
sick of bombing the ball and Lync/Jack getting double/triple teamed

The issue is we couldn't hit a target with the initial i50, so they either marked the footy or we caused a stoppage. We kept winning it back and getting it back in but by then the defensive flood was in. Fixup the initial entries and they dont have time to flood.

 

[tiger_tough]

Crows don't have the running half back quality the blues do so less need to try shut them down. Bring in a marking target - either Cumberland or Ryan.

 

[RobsJourney]

Dimma post game - we lack polish.
Polish =
High conversation rate of score attempts to goals
Low turnover numbers

Coach is pretty much on the mark.

Tigers pretty good at limiting needless free kicks but polish to be found.

Don't understand the posters who think that replacing Mansell with Cumbo is the fix. Different role players these two. This call highlights a lack of understanding of team balance.
Any Mansell replacement will focus primarily on defence / containment. Something the team were very good at Rnd 1.
Cumbo is about score polish. He replaces a player whose primary function is to score maximum when the ball is in the forward 50.

Just wanna point out that Mansell had 1 tackle. For a player in the team for his pressure that is miles below the level we need.

His mark late on the wing might save him but otherwise he was very, very average. We still need players who can play the game. Look at McCreery at the Pies, plenty of tackles but also some goals and 20 touches.

 

[Groupie_]

Crows don't have the running half back quality the blues do so less need to try shut them down. Bring in a marking target - either Cumberland or Ryan.

want clarke in the deam

would cut em up

 

[tiger_tough]

Hard to tell if Crows are good or gws are utterly shit atm.

 

[Coach_Required]

Do you think he might be holding some details back from the media?
Seriously. Cumbo is best 22 if he wants to be. His exposed form atm suggests he is not there yet.

Couldn't careless if he is holding back info on Cumbo. Still doesn't mean the decision to not play him over Mansell was the right one. I believe it ended up costing us a win.

 

[tora tora tora]

Dimma post game - we lack polish.
Polish =
High conversation rate of score attempts to goals
Low turnover numbers

Coach is pretty much on the mark.

Tigers pretty good at limiting needless free kicks but polish to be found.

Don't understand the posters who think that replacing Mansell with Cumbo is the fix. Different role players these two. This call highlights a lack of understanding of team balance.
Any Mansell replacement will focus primarily on defence / containment. Something the team were very good at Rnd 1.
Cumbo is about score polish. He replaces a player whose primary function is to score maximum when the ball is in the forward 50.

Funnily enough when he played Cumberland had slightly higher pressure numbers than Mansell.

Of course dimma is using some arcane metric.

For all our new mids we did well to steal a draw.

I like Mansell but not in this role.

 

[Livonski]

Couldn't careless if he is holding back info on Cumbo. Still doesn't mean the decision to to play him over Mansell was the right one. I believe it ended up costing us a win.

Haha. So Hardwick has more facts around why he couldn’t pick Cumbo…
You say… doesn’t matter, you know better.
FMD.
The best aspect of the game was the relentless pressure that locked it in F50.
You say it cost a win, maybe Cumbo would have allowed Carlton to walk it out of F50?
You and I can guess but I’ll back in the experts.

 

[Bojangles17]

It’s unfortunate we didn’t win, but the two most concerning aspects prior to the season was the hunger there, and consequently the pressure and would our defence look like it was at our best.

They were both ticks, we traditionally grow into a season under Dimma, so have to believe based on history we will be better after the bye.

The worst part was obviously the messy connection between our forwards and the rest of the team, but again that’s fixable. Dusty and Bolton had 41 touches and 15 i50s between them, which should terrify teams, but only 8 score involvements. For context Bolton averaged 7.5 and Dusty 7 last season, and Dusty was supposedly down last year, and both have consistently at that kind of mark for awhile so have to assume they’ll regress back to the mean as the season goes on.

Well said ,the facet of game that let us down we can work with , lots of upside and several options we can change the mix with

 

[Grrr]

Dimma post game - we lack polish.
Polish =
High conversation rate of score attempts to goals
Low turnover numbers

Coach is pretty much on the mark.

Tigers pretty good at limiting needless free kicks but polish to be found.

Don't understand the posters who think that replacing Mansell with Cumbo is the fix. Different role players these two. This call highlights a lack of understanding of team balance.
Any Mansell replacement will focus primarily on defence / containment. Something the team were very good at Rnd 1.
Cumbo is about score polish. He replaces a player whose primary function is to score maximum when the ball is in the forward 50.

So why are we the only club in the comp that plays this 'pressure' forward. We didn't late last season. We had MRJ and Cumberland as our small forwards going into the finals. Why all of a sudden do we feel the need to revert back to what brought success 4-5 seasons ago.

We kicked 8 goals, seems to me our major weakness was converting. Mansell is not going to help that, although yes he might have assisted but scoreboard pressure is a lot more advantageous.

Cumberland and Martin can easily play in the same forward half. Martin just has to be putting moderate heat on players and they shite the bed. I happened numerous times last game. Cumberland is not so dissimilar as he makes things happen when around the ball. I don't quite buy this Martin forward thing either. Martin has been one of the leagues leading centre square player for a decade, not to mention the best mid forward we have ever had at Richmond, all of a sudden he's a forward only. He is moving very well, so use him further up the ground.

 

[fargothegreat]

Funnily enough when he played Cumberland had slightly higher pressure numbers than Mansell.

Of course dimma is using some arcane metric.

For all our new mids we did well to steal a draw.

I like Mansell but not in this role.

I think it's a simple case of Mansell was brought in to play a role Dimma thought he was well suited to and he hasn't performed.

Given he's a fringe player without the runs on the board, that probably means he doesn't play next week. Personally, I'd probably give the role to Baker rather than bring Cumberland in, and structure up a bit taller with Miller as a permanent back and Ryan as an extra tall forward.

 

[YeOldTiger]

I dont highly rate performances of players who are wasteful with their disposal, particularly by foot. Quality over quantity always, without doubt.

Quantity over quality has been the story of Taranto for most of his career, and a bit for Prestia tonight. Prestia had 2 positive quarters (1st and 3rd, he was great in the 3rd) and 2 negative quarters (2nd and 4th, no influence at all). Balances out to a middling game, even though he looked good he only had bursts of being an actual positive player.

Your takes on the Brownlow winners each year would be embarrassing for the league. Quantity over quality would cover a fair few Brownlow medalists over the last 20y.

 

[scaryness]

Your takes on the Brownlow winners each year would be embarrassing for the league. Quantity over quality would cover a fair few Brownlow medalists over the last 20y.

You're right I have stopped caring about the Brownlow.

 

[YeOldTiger]

Whoa, harsh mate!

I never said I wasn't all for Cotchin being in the team, and I'm very much in the camp of letting our champions go when they want to, my comment was just a flow-on from what has, generally, been the reluctant but also understandable view on him for many people. And that is, right or wrong, that in 2021 and 2022 he has looked slow and past his best and, with young mids coming up and two new big recruits, his spot might no longer have been fully guaranteed.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that he (likely) knows his spot is slightly under threat...

And, in referencing the general view, I was saying that I was stoked to see Cotchin showed he was still easily best 22.

If Trent Cotchin is in the bottom 6 of our best 22 we're in a bloody good position overall imo

 

[lumpinee]

i think its easier to gauge we're at by simply not living in the past and purely being in the now along with garnering data of the past 45 games which cover seasons '21 & '22
how many elite players have we had changing the course of games as compared to say Melbourne who i consider the most elite side over the last 2 seasons including last night ?

id say at present probably 3-5 elite footballers ? 5's being generous actually, same as Carlton,yeah ? nowhere near enough to realistically challenge for a GF berth let alone win it in 2023
how many Melbourne ? 7 ? at least i reckon,i couldnt give rats tossbag about 2017-20,its irrelevant
we need elite footballers n fast,we've still got time but if ppl think Mansell is the way over more talented footballers then good luck with that
theres no more pressure on a backline than a guy that can rip you apart in 15 minutes of which Mansell is not capable of
n FFS get a 1.2 million player around the faaarken ball,ya dont see Pendlebury pulling his socks up for 15 mins a qtr down in a pocket
i thnk RFC match committee has been delusion for quite a while,we couldnt beat Carlton,n theyre faaarken ordinary n thats not giving up hope

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

I think it's a simple case of Mansell was brought in to play a role Dimma thought he was well suited to and he hasn't performed.

Given he's a fringe player without the runs on the board, that probably means he doesn't play next week. Personally, I'd probably give the role to Baker rather than bring Cumberland in, and structure up a bit taller with Miller as a permanent back and Ryan as an extra tall forward.

We will find out whether this is the case come selection this week. The role he is playing is largely what he does off the ball rather than on it which was the same for Castagna and Rioli in 2019/20 flags. The fact our pressure was the best it has been in a long time suggest that he might have been performing his role exactly like Dimma intended, we aren't privy to the film/tape that can back this up and unless you went to the game on Thursday and only watched Mansell you also can't back that up.

You only need to listen to Dimma comments in Georges retirement speech to get some idea of what they want from Mansell or any small forward playing the role.

 

[Coach_Required]

Haha. So Hardwick has more facts around why he couldn’t pick Cumbo…
You say… doesn’t matter, you know better.
FMD.
The best aspect of the game was the relentless pressure that locked it in F50.
You say it cost a win, maybe Cumbo would have allowed Carlton to walk it out of F50?
You and I can guess but I’ll back in the experts.

You honestly believe picking Mansell helped the team draw? FMD

Hardwick deserves criticism just because we've won 3 flags in his time doesn't mean he is immune to it nor does it mean he never makes a mistake.

He ****ed up at the selection table. took a gamble and it cost us. We are lucky we got away with at least 2 points.

 

[fargothegreat]

We will find out whether this is the case come selection this week. The role he is playing is largely what he does off the ball rather than on it which was the same for Castagna and Rioli in 2019/20 flags. The fact our pressure was the best it has been in a long time suggest that he might have been performing his role exactly like Dimma intended, we aren't privy to the film/tape that can back this up and unless you went to the game on Thursday and only watched Mansell you also can't back that up.

You only need to listen to Dimma comments in Georges retirement speech to get some idea of what they want from Mansell or any small forward playing the role.

His tackle and pressure act stats were low. I'm not expecting him to be in the team this week