Round 13: St Kilda vs Geelong, Saturday Night @ the MCG

[Persevering Saint]

Lost at the selection table, I feel. As soon as we had Gilbert in the half-forward position, Joey in on one leg, Raph as the sub, Lynch AND Johnson AND Walsh AND Ledger all not in the team, it was a waste of time. As A2R has indicated, we HAD to win this game, because otherwise it was a hopeless game. At least every other game, we've been able to say, "Well, we DID get to see a young 'un get another game under their belt, etc." None of that this time (Steven, Armo and Macca don't count at this point, really).

Before the game, people seemed to be arguing that we needed to go with experience and not waste our time blooding fragile youngsters who'd cost us the match. That's not how I saw it at all. Our younger players have been significant contributors to our improvement, and we sucked them out of the side, like vacuuming out all the fresh air in a stale room.

All I can hope (and I'm not sure that I can really believe this), is that this either gives Ross the wake-up call that the kids are the future AND the now, and some players are past it (mind you, we all thought he'd realised that a month or so ago, but then picked this team, so who knows). Perhaps, and only just perhaps, he was giving them all one last fling to absolutely vindicate what will be a rather ruthless cull for the rest of the season and into next year. Frankly though, I doubt it at this point.

 

[The Enemy Within]

So you agree that none of our kids taken in the drafts between 2008 and 2010 deserve a chance?

Lynch and Walsh are pretty much demanding selection at the moment.

Ledger had done everything right in his 2 quarters of football. Can you honestly say you were happy with Raph being the sub, especially for Montagna when we had Ledger the last 2 weeks?

Lynch and Ledger at least.

Could try and justify others who probably aren't quite demanding a game.

But it would have been nice to take some positives out of the game about youngsters, than lose with the oldest team we've put on the field this year, (and seemingly least skilled team as well).

Taking nothing away from Macca, Jack and Armo. But they're really not youngsters anymore.

The only one i agree with is Ledger yes he should of stayed in.

Walsh and Lynch are the same age or older than Macca,Jack and Armo, so to call them yougsters and not include these 3 boy's is wrong.

Lynch and Walsh are NOT running players or midifelders there is no comparision with Lynch and Gilbert,Gilbert is miles ahead of ability and class it's that simple.

Walsh would need to push out either Dawson,Fisher or Gwilt take your pick.

 

[The Enemy Within]

Lost at the selection table, I feel. As soon as we had Gilbert in the half-forward position, Joey in on one leg, Raph as the sub, Lynch AND Johnson AND Walsh AND Ledger all not in the team, it was a waste of time. As A2R has indicated, we HAD to win this game, because otherwise it was a hopeless game. At least every other game, we've been able to say, "Well, we DID get to see a young 'un get another game under their belt, etc." None of that this time (Steven, Armo and Macca don't count at this point, really).

Before the game, people seemed to be arguing that we needed to go with experience and not waste our time blooding fragile youngsters who'd cost us the match. That's not how I saw it at all. Our younger players have been significant contributors to our improvement, and we sucked them out of the side, like vacuuming out all the fresh air in a stale room.

All I can hope (and I'm not sure that I can really believe this), is that this either gives Ross the wake-up call that the kids are the future AND the now, and some players are past it (mind you, we all thought he'd realised that a month or so ago, but then picked this team, so who knows). Perhaps, and only just perhaps, he was giving them all one last fling to absolutely vindicate what will be a rather ruthless cull for the rest of the season and into next year. Frankly though, I doubt it at this point.

Get your hand off it really are you serious Lynch and Johnson are just not up to it.

Walsh has found his level without taking the game buy the scruff of the neck.

 

[saber_32au]

The only one i agree with is Ledger yes he should of stayed in.

Agree.

Walsh and Lynch are the same age or older than Macca,Jack and Armo, so to call them yougsters and not include these 3 boy's is wrong.

Lynch and Walsh are NOT running players or midifelders there is no comparision with Lynch and Gilbert,Gilbert is miles ahead of ability and class it's that simple.

You make a good point about Walsh (I thought Walsh was younger), but Walsh has only been playing Aussie rules for what 2 years?
He’s what 23 now? He is still fairly young, and considering how much he’s achieved in the 2 or so years he’s been playing, he could very well turn out to be a decent player.
But we aint going to know if he doesn’t get a chance...

And not sure where you get the idea that Lynch is older than Armitage, McEvoy and Stevens, he actually younger then all of them!!!

Get your hand off it really are you serious Lynch and Johnson are just not up to it.

Walsh has found his level without taking the game buy the scruff of the neck.

Mate, you’ve already written off Johnson off just what, half an AFL match? He’s been playing well in the VFL, but hasn’t been given a decent chance yet at the highest level.

I echo the comments about giving the younger blokes a decent stint in the 1’s. Maybe this is the perfect time to do so? Play them for the rest of the year, and if they show no improvement, then delist them and get new blood into our club. At the moment, we’ve got nothing to lose (we’ll be lucky to make finals), yet everything to gain.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Get your hand off it really are you serious Lynch and Johnson are just not up to it.

Walsh has found his level without taking the game buy the scruff of the neck.

So far you have bluntly declared Stanley, Walsh, Lynch, Simpkin, and Johnson as "not up to it" without really qualifying your opinion.
You also declared "Gamble is a gun who will kick 30 to 40 this year "

Rather than trying to be the Guru of recruiting you could try to explain why you see things the way you do.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

One thing i would like to know is how Mitch Duncan was allowed to continue playing even though he was concussed? Surely the AFL has to look into that and sanction Geelong.

Rules are relaxed if your substitute has already been activated. Won't see that written anywhere of course!

Some of the absolute drivel in this thread is as bad as our disposal.

What do you expect from a forward line when blokes can't hit a lead up player on the chest from 20m away? Instead, you're all calling for Kingsley's head. WAKE UP!

Our endeavour couldn't be questioned and it's obvious Ross thought we were more than capable of winning this game. He took a path and it didn't come off and he'll wear it.

Armitage, Peake, Steven, Gamble, McEvoy were all excellent. Dawson did some great work and was caught on along with a few others, running back towards goal.

I'm not fussed about making finals at this stage. It's clear the only benefit would be potentially getting some younger players finals experience, but the benefits of not making it, in terms of a longer pre-season, earlier draft selection, etc would be far more beneficial at this point.

From here on, anyone in the team who is not prepared to kick the football forwards when the opportunity is clearly there needs to step aside.

 

[beejay]

plenty of good points for playing/not playing the kids. but i certainly agree with the fact that the results have been the same but when we play youth we can at least say they have had another game to continue their development. i saw an interview with monty and he said the youngsters in the team had been really exciting and brought energy to the team that has been hugely beneficial. i cant help but feel getting rid of ledger, simpkin etc kind of sucked that out and went back to the stale old norm. ledgers energy as the sub and his play was much better then someone like raph.

it is at least good to see the boys are playing with full effort again which we lacked at the start of the year we just need to badly work on the skills. the game against north just got a lil more interesting after the bye as they are now in form and losing this match could have huge consequences for the losing team

 

[krusden]

What do you expect from a forward line when blokes can't hit a lead up player on the chest from 20m away? Instead, you're all calling for Kingsley's head. WAKE UP!

exactly.

You know what the disposal looked like to Roo on sat nite - the disposal that went to Richo over his career. The question was never over the endeavour of the leading forward, despite the crap bandied in this thread and the papers this morning, the question was over the shitty kicks to him.

Put simply: HOW THE F*** IS ROO MEANT TO KICK GOALS WHRN THE BALL LANDS AT HIS ******G BOOTLACES OR PEOPLE KICK IT TO HIM WHEN HE HAS 2+ DEFENDERS ON HIM?

 

[The Enemy Within]

Just a few points on Gamble i did state he would kick 30-40 goals no doubt,he still might but highly unlikely at this stage.

The issue with Gamble isn't Gamble it's the way we bring ball into the fwd area as he should be our 3-4 th option at times he's our only option.

A bad Rooey/Kossi year has exposed him more and Schneider being inconsistant hasn't helped either.

Stanley is very lazy no 2nd or 3rd efforts and unless he gets his mental side of the game right he won't make it.

It's obvious that Lynch wont be here next year, he's been at the club for nearly 2 seasons and has played 2 maybe 3 games and couldn't get a game when we were down on our knees.

Johnson needs more strings to his bow kicking goals out of a goal square isn't enough he's not mobile enough and can't put forward pressure on .

It's an opion like yours.

 

[Kozivan]

Mate. Roo, Kosi and Schneider are getting the same delivery Gamble is getting... just remember that.

 

[The Enemy Within]

Mate. Roo, Kosi and Schneider are getting the same delivery Gamble is getting... just remember that.

How can Roo kick goals when he leads into dead pockets or so far up the ground he's 2 kicks out.Roo went into dead pocket at least 1/2 doz times on sat.

Was Scheinds even out there , that was a real poor game buy his standards that had nothing to do with delivery his work rate was way down.

Kossi was much better, took a couple of pack marks he will be better once we get Gardner back for support for Macca and Kossi can play that permanant forward.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

How can Roo kick goals when he leads into dead pockets or so far up the ground he's 2 kicks out.Roo went into dead pocket at least 1/2 doz times on sat.

Was Scheinds even out there , that was a real poor game buy his standards that had nothing to do with delivery his work rate was way down.


Kossi was much better, took a couple of pack marks he will be better once we get Gardner back for support for Macca and Kossi can play that permanant forward.

Schnieder may have kicked a goal if not for the runner.

I agree that we should play Gardiner, while giving McEvoy plenty of time down forward. It may not work, but we need to spread the opposition defense a bit thinner.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Schnieder may have kicked a goal if not for the runner.

I agree that we should play Gardiner, while giving McEvoy plenty of time down forward. It may not work, but we need to spread the opposition defense a bit thinner.

Josh Hunt's hit to the guyts off the ball on Schneider in the 2nd qtr didn't help him either. Expecting a week off for Josh.

No offence SS, but spreading the defence requires passes to hit the targets. That's the issue. Players can't hit targets, they then hesitate when the same opportunity presents itself again and results in a long bomb which is a defender's dream. Players can't even kick a ball into space properly for a player to run onto it. It really is borderline disgraceful.

 

[Squizz]

Kossi was much better, took a couple of pack marks he will be better once we get Gardner back for support for Macca and Kossi can play that permanant forward.

Why would that make him better? He's played there before!

 

[Kildonan]

Did anybody notice the structures in place for Geelong against us?

Their man on the mark in our defence: They had one player on the mark and a second player at right angles between the player and the fat side.

When they ran at Sam Gilbert - they always came at him from his left side

there's more

 

[thomas_m18]

Kosi suspended for two weeks for his tackle on Duncan (bad record doesn't help). He shouldn't have been suspended IMO but the Trengove incident maks it hard for the MRP to say no.

Corey got a reprimand or a similar thing, Stokes got a week for his sacktap on Kosi.

 

[StFly]

Kosi suspended for two weeks for his tackle on Duncan (bad record doesn't help). He shouldn't have been suspended IMO but the Trengove incident maks it hard for the MRP to say no.

Corey got a reprimand or a similar thing, Stokes got a week for his sacktap on Kosi.

Just quoting this for the last time re Corey, which I disagree with vehemently.

Corey engaged in a lifting motion within his tackle whereby the player with possession was uprooted from the turf and as such had no control over where he would then end up. That style of tackle (and not saying it was his intent or anything of the sort, merely it worried me at the time) is conductive to players being dropped on their heads and the severe possibility of spinal injuries.

Trengove also engaged in a lifting motion through the speed at which the tackle was completed, it was also a more "classic" slinging motion whereby the player is gripped and pulled to impart momentum. regardless of when Trengove let go, he had imparted momentum and Dangerfield could not arrest it in the time frame given (Trengove letting go of Dangerfields hand / forearm)

In these two situations the tacklers basically take it upon themselves to be wholly responsible for where the player ends up or how the player ends up striking the ground. With Kosi, and with most front or side on tackles, the arms are pinned above the elbow and the tackled player is airborn for moments, unlike the above scenarios there is no "severe" lift, pull or otherwise to impart unstoppable momentum. The duty of care is simply not the same, nor is the scope for injury.

 

[mjay]

Just Kosi's luck hey. Has a decent game for the first time in ages and then gets hit with a 2 week suspension!

 

[Plugger35]

Just Kosi's luck hey. Has a decent game for the first time in ages and then gets hit with a 2 week suspension!

Joke of a suspension, especially considering that Corey's tackle looked worse but he only gets a reprimand.

Story of Kosi's career, whenever he starts to find some form he either gets injured or suspended.

I guess one positive is that it gives Stanley or Archer an opportunity.

 

[stkildathunda]

Ive posted this elsewhere but will post it again. Both Kosi & Corey were assessed identical except Kosi had medium impact & Corey only low, this is due to the medical report where Duncan was dazed and confused (some will say concussed when you read all the reports, but where is the AFL looking into that)

When it comes down to it, it looks like this:


Kosi: negligent conduct (one point)
Corey: negligent conduct (one point)

Kosi: medium impact (two points) -due to medical report
Corey: low impact (one point)

Kosi: high contact (two points)
Corey: high contact (two points)

TOTALS
Kosi: Five activation points, resulting in a classification of a Level Two offence, drawing 225 demerit points and a two-match sanction.
Corey: Four activation points, resulting in a classification of a Level One offence, drawing 125 demerit points and a one-match sanction.


Kosi has an existing poor record of five matches suspended within the last three years, increasing the penalty by 50 per cent to 337.50 points and a three-match sanction. An early plea reduces the sanction by 25 per cent to 253.13 points and a two-match sanction.

Corey has no existing good or bad record. An early plea reduces the sanction by 25 per cent to a reprimand and 93.75 points towards his future record.


Only difference before pleas and bad records is the impact and due to Duncan being concussed/groggy is why Kosi is weighted more... If Kosi had a good record would be reduced to 1 week with early plea, which im sure most would accept..

We cant really criticize the MRP for the finding when you break it down because 1 reason and 1 reason only has got Kosi a extra week and thats his suspension from last year when he cleaned up a bloke.....

The fact Corey has a good record has saved him a 1 week suspension and Kosi's has cost him 1 week.

 

[Plugger35]

The main thing I don't understand is how Kosi's tackle was rated as medium impact and Corey's low impact when they were both similar in force. The only difference is that Duncan was dazed or concussed and Steven wasn't which comes down to luck more than anything.

Also Corey's tackle was more reckless as he lifted Steven up and drove him headfirst into the ground which as StFly pointed out has the potential for spinal injuries.

The inconsistencies with the MRP is the hardest part to deal with, they rely on all these technical calculations based on points and prior records but don't use common sense.

It's ridiculous that Kosi gets two weeks and Corey gets nothing for a similar tackle no matter which way you look at it. St Kilda should appeal it but it would probably only result in getting an extra week so why bother?

 

[you pick one]

Under the old Tribunal system they would all play this week, would have just been seen as a good old fashion game of footy.

Two hard sides going hard at it with no spite. enjoy these contests while you can as I believe the MRP will eventually destroy the physical part of the game.

Best of luck for the remainder of the season.

 

[Plugger35]

Under the old Tribunal system they would all play this week, would have just been seen as a good old fashion game of footy.

Two hard sides going hard at it with no spite. enjoy these contests while you can as I believe the MRP will eventually destroy the physical part of the game.

Best of luck for the remainder of the season.

That's true, the MRP seem to forget that it's a physical game played for high stakes and some clashes are going to happen with players getting injured. Just look at Podsiadly taking out Bartel, if that was a St Kilda player he'd probably get 6 weeks.

Geelong v St Kilda games are always tough, physical clashes which is what supporters love to see and really none of the incidents that I saw warranted a suspension. Maybe a few reprimands or fines at most.

 

[stkildathunda]

That's true, the MRP seem to forget that it's a physical game played for high stakes and some clashes are going to happen with players getting injured. Just look at Podsiadly taking out Bartel, if that was a St Kilda player he'd probably get 6 weeks.

Geelong v St Kilda games are always tough, physical clashes which is what supporters love to see and really none of the incidents that I saw warranted a suspension. Maybe a few reprimands or fines at most.

Agree i thought both guys would get a reprimands. They dont deserve anymore then that.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think that they should contest it on grounds that it was not negligent.
Did Duncan let go of the ball and try to stop the impact. ( His arms were not both pinned hard were they ). I would argue that lack of self preservation on Duncan's behalf does not equate to negligence on Kosi's behalf. It was a flat hit onto the ground, as opposed to the Steven/Corey hit, which hit head first, putting strain on the neck.

As an aside does he get to play VFL next weekend? If not it equates to three weeks.