Round 13: St Kilda vs Geelong, Saturday Night @ the MCG

[sauce_head]

This thread is getting embarrassing... Can we have a thread solely dedicated to umpiring decisions to get rid of these stupid squabbles? Anyone who thinks the umps cost us tonight needs to take of their red, white and black glasses..

People are entitled to their opinion and commenting on poor umpiring decisions at the time which affected the scoreboard immediately certainly comes under the ambit of the thread - you can not doubt that. I am not sure who is saying the umpires decided the result, but I see none of that.

What annoys me is people like you whose main contribution is to comment on comments of others. That is not the point of the thread. Go start another one to comments on comments re umpiring. It was fairly consistent discussion and observation until the cats supporters started spiking about our comments.

 

[lemons123]

People are entitled to their opinion and commenting on poor umpiring decisions at the time which affected the scoreboard immediately certainly comes under the ambit of the thread - you can not doubt that. I am not sure who is saying the umpires decided the result, but I see none of that.

What annoys me is people like you whose main contribution is to comment on comments of others. That is not the point of the thread. Go start another one to comments on comments re umpiring. It was fairly consistent discussion and observation until the cats supporters started spiking about our comments.

EVERY SINGLE GAME WE LOSE this happens though. Ive tried to contribute to these threads but its hard when you have a 10:1 ratio of comments regarding umpires being "out to get us" as opposed to comments regarding the REAL reasons we lost. Can't we have a discussion about our forward structure, why we were butchering the ball so much, what went so wrong in the second quarter etc. etc. without seeming like sore losers?

 

[thomas_m18]

After going to the game, I thought our effort wasn't lacking. We did try. Execution was very poor, but we did try. The umpiring was a little average, but it did go both ways. Number 28 (don't know or care too much who he is) wasn't very popular at the end of the night, and Razor Ray wasn't overly popular either.

We do get very emotional after games. We just expect much more from our players. I didn't think we were too bad. We were really only beaten for that second quarter and in the last. We were fairly good throughout the rest of the night, although execution was very poor.

Umps aren't prejudiced, although it can feel that way at times. Another ump last year would have seen us play Fremantle in the second week of September. That's the breaks.

Gilbert wasn't great tonight, but he was much better than last week. Nothing wrong with Kosi's game tonight. Came in off low fitness base, and I thought he did well. Would have been much better if Rooey came to the party.

Gamble didn't impress me early, but he did a few nice things. Possibly too small for the role he wants to play, but he tries. Deserves his spot over Siposs ATM,.

Wasn't impressed with Clarke being the sub, but I didn't notice him too much, so he certainly wasn't too bad. Didn't present a reason to drop him, although being the sub could show that RL has no confidence in him.

McEvoy has advanced much further than I thought possible this year. Has been very good for an extended period now. Gardiner has a tough job getting in ahead of Kosi and Macca, that's for sure. Armo, Steven continue to build.

Peake was good, Gram and Gilbert frustrated (didn't think Gilbert was too bad overall, but that turnover to Menzel leaves a lasting impression). Schneider quiet again, Monty and Milne quiet again. Some encouraging signs, but there's a lot to build on. If we had taken our chances tonight, who knows what could have happened.

 

[SA1NTER]

Anyone who thinks the umps cost us tonight needs to take of their red, white and black glasses..

I second that.

The umpiring is always bad, for every team. It was our poor kicking that killed us, not to mention all the out-on-the-fulls, the runner costing us a chance at goal and among other things.

 

[lemons123]

I second that.

The umpiring is always bad, for every team. It was our poor kicking that killed us, not to mention all the out-on-the-fulls, the runner costing us a chance at goal and among other things.

Thank you!

BY THE WAY has the runner incident happened earlier this year?? I recall losing goals in 2 other games for the same thing early in the season...

 

[beejay]

its also a bit of a shame as the time we have started to play better football and try to build confidence wev had to travel over to play freo and play collingwood and geelong...all the winnable matches to get us going confidence wise arent until after the bye and the damage is kinda done already with our record...thats not to say we cant make the 8 but its disapointing we dont get to play gold coast until round 19 - prob when theyll be playing their best football of the year lol.

just need to regroup, have a good week off, train hard work on skills and come out and beat a resurgent north melbourne.

 

[Squizz]

Really? For me it seemed that the cats got the rub of the green for the first half of the third quarter and then we got about 6 frees in a row inside our forward half. Only problem was, we wasted them and didnt convert our chances..

Rubbish. Name them.

 

[lemons123]

Rubbish. Name them.

I'll get back to you with more detail when the game analyzer on the AFL website is up in the morning, but I remember us getting a good run with the umps from midway through the third.

 

[Squizz]

People are entitled to their opinion and commenting on poor umpiring decisions at the time which affected the scoreboard immediately certainly comes under the ambit of the thread

I am not sure who is saying the umpires decided the result, but I see none of that.

What annoys me is people like you whose main contribution is to comment on comments of others.

Agree.

Agree.

Agree.

 

[sauce_head]

Why do all these threads always make our fans look like such sooks..

We were our own worst enemy tonight and we are having HUGE PROBLEMS entering our forward 50.. Tonight was frustrating because we generally outplayed Geelong around the game only to turn it over inside 50 and watch them punish us for it every time. Umpires had no affect on the result.

The last match observation post was at about 12:50 (edit: 12:50 UK time not Australia). these posts are like talking at the footy and of course will focus on contriversal and emotive aspects such as umpiring.

Besides the posts commenting on actual match incidents, including umpiring decisions, every post match post has said the main reason for the loss was not due to umpiring.

This was the first post to say stop whinging about umpires and actually changed the tone and subject of the post from analysis of what went wrong to a debate about umpiring complaints.

So it was your post which created the exact type of post you hate. Sorry to do this but your self-righteousness was p!ssing me off.

 

[lemons123]

The last match observation post was at about 12:50. these posts are like talking at the footy and of course will focus on contriversal and emotive aspects such as umpiring.

Besides the posts commenting on actual match incidents, including umpiring decisions, every post match post has said the main reason for the loss was not due to umpiring.

This was the first post to say stop whinging about umpires and actually changed the tone and subject of the post from analysis of what went wrong to a debate about umpiring complaints.

So it was your post which created the exact type of post you hate. Sorry to do this but your self-righteousness was p!ssing me off.

Self-righteousness? Not hypocritical or anything. Dozens of posts from St.Kilda fans on here have been deleted over the past hour and rightfully so. It was all just whinge whinge whinge earlier, and most were just the general "umps are out to get us" without even bothering to bring any specific incidents into question.

 

[CHBench]

Im sorry but i'll sit through whatever it takes for someone high up to realise tonights 22 is no longer taking us in any beneficial direction. Just my opinion, shoot it down, whatever. But to me it's pretty clear cut.

 

[sauce_head]

Self-righteousness? Not hypocritical or anything. Dozens of posts from St.Kilda fans on here have been deleted over the past hour and rightfully so. It was all just whinge whinge whinge earlier, and most were just the general "umps are out to get us" without even bothering to bring any specific incidents into question.

Well i have not seen much of that, if they have perhaps you have a point. But you take it too seriously. Commenting on the comments (which I acknowledge I am doing now) by people like you only bring the tone down further. Typically this is done by opposition supporters not saints.

I was attempting not to soujnd self-righteous by appoligising for doing this. But now I am in danger of taking big footy and the internet world too seriously myself, so I shall comment no more.

Hopefully a better performance by the Saints after the bye.

 

[Squizz]

I'll get back to you with more detail when the game analyzer on the AFL website is up in the morning, but I remember us getting a good run with the umps from midway through the third.

Do that. It would be good for you to waste your time just as I did watching the second half again (thinking I'd missed quite a few things from your comments).

Hopefully the game analyser will show Wojo's arm chop on Macca who had pretty much taken the mark. "Pretty obvious" say the commentators. 15 min to go in the 3rd. Kelly taken high by Gilbert "a bit lucky" say the commentators. 12 min to go. Scarlett with hands in Kosi's back as he was leading "Kosi just got his feet tangled with Scarlett"??? 8 min. Scarlett's forearm push in Kosi's back "looked like it from here" and "You see that paid many times. What can you say?" 6 min. Riewoldt taken over the shoulder by Wojo as he was about to mark in the pocket. 5 min. Bakers arms taken by Kelly as he was about to mark (Kelly was not watching the ball). 4 min. Baker smashed in the back/head. 3 min.

Then Podsiadly gets a free for an arm hold whilst he's got Gwilt's jumper? Goal. 2 min.

How about you watch the third quarter again. Please do that before you comment again on what others have seen. And of course those 6 forward line frees you concocted.

 

[beejay]

Im sorry but i'll sit through whatever it takes for someone high up to realise tonights 22 is no longer taking us in any beneficial direction. Just my opinion, shoot it down, whatever. But to me it's pretty clear cut.

i certainly agree with you to a certain extent, wev obviously still got a lot of talented players but i felt we were now starting to complement our stars with exciting youngsters with huge upside. but then all of a sudden it seems we have reverted back to the norm this week. real disapointed to see simpkin and ledger dropped. im getting sick of zac dawson struggling with the power forwards each week and giving away frees. however the bright side is finally jack steven armo mcevoy n cj are really starting to develop from potential into good afl players

 

[Squizz]

Im sorry but i'll sit through whatever it takes for someone high up to realise tonights 22 is no longer taking us in any beneficial direction. Just my opinion, shoot it down, whatever. But to me it's pretty clear cut.

Why did we play Montagna who was clearly not right from the outset? I thought we had stopped doing that stuff and learned a lesson from the finals last year.

But Zac will be credited with numerous spoils. Vardy and Ottens are a pretty handy combination - when I saw Vardy earlier in the year in the VFL he looked likely as a high leaping 198cm player with pace (he is pretty quick for his size) and decent hands/kicking.

Peake was excellent.

Jones was good.

Gamble was OK.

I was quite happy with Kosi's performance. Easily his best game this year (including VFL matches). Should have got a free 20m out for his second goal.

Dempster kept Johnson pretty much to handballs and backline possessions.

Raph was a sub (so limited opportunity). Not sure why the club thought that would be a good idea.

Baker was OK aside from one free kick conceded. Should have got a couple back.

Unfortunately Riewoldt, Milne and Schneider all struggled to get involved tonight - even Goddard (whilst he kicked a number of bullet passes) was restricted to hurried handballs most of the game. Add that to Monty (who should not have played) and it's going to be tough going against the better teams.

 

[StFly]

im getting sick of zac dawson struggling with the power forwards each week and giving away frees.

Vardy is a relief ruckman / forward, Ottens is ruckman, what are these power forwards you speak of since Pods was taken by Gwilt and the closest they have to one? Cloke is also not a power forward, he's a leading type with a strong core, if you notice his attempts to outpoint Dawson (who was goalside at almost every contest as all good defenders are) the marks are taken with feet planted (solid foundation for not moving out of position) arse out (to lengthen the spoiling attempt) and arms outstretched + the ball to advantage side. There's ultimately sweet FA a defender can do in these situations and they're basically primed for the zone off 3rd man in to kill it.

That's not excusing bonafide contests of course and failed spoils through poor positioning for his slightly weaker frame, but really there's not much a Kp backman can do on an effective ruck rover that's making a comeback (like a NickNat, Vardy, Vickery, Ryder type) as these are effectively guys that Blake would probably take or be 3rd up to kill the contest as well on.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Gotta go back a while to find a game we won without Roo, Milne or Schneider kicking one between them...

It's funny cos we kicked more goals than we did against the Pies and the Cats earlier this year.

 

[Ducky Tie]

What do you guys think the changes will be after the bye? Not including injuries over the next two weeks obviously.

 

[mysainters]

7 guys contributed to our scoreboard tonight, the guys that didn't include Roo, Schneider and Milne.

Tough to win when it's your forwards that don't produce.

I don't want to hear this it's left to a few anymore, our mids etc have been hitting the scoreboard and regularly.

 

[stkildathunda]

One thing i would like to know is how Mitch Duncan was allowed to continue playing even though he was concussed? Surely the AFL has to look into that and sanction Geelong.

 

[SA1NTER]

I am so glad we have the bye next week, I can just relax and not worry about who wins and avoiding injuries, ect.

 

[dg102]

4 goals to geelong from free kicks is a freakin joke.
Team effort was good tonight but execution was sub AFL par. Some of that was due to Geelong pressure, some was inexcusable. Gram! better take a good hard look at himself, because he's just not cutting it under pressure anymore. And how are we ever going to win any big games with a non functioning forward line. I mean seriously who is our forward coach. They should be sacked! Individual players have improved and we have a team full of stars but until we get a forward line that can kick goals were heading backwards.

There were some seriously good individual performances tonight. Including McEvoy, Peake, Fisher, Armo, Dempster and Steven again but very little support from our bottom end players Grams kicking efficency was pathetic and I think cost us at least 2 goals against. Clarke did nothing again. Shcnider was very quiet again. Baker can only defend now, he doesnt trust his kicking. The list goes on and on, WHEN ARE THE COACHES GOING TO REALISE WE CAN'T KEEP CARRYING THESE PLAYERS AND EXPECT TO WIN GAMES!

 

[saber_32au]

We desperately need more goalkickers and we need someone to hit a bloody target in the F50, we either kick it at the feet or over the heads of our leading forwards. How bloody hard is it to hit them on the f***ing chest? Can we just do that for once? We need Harves to make a comeback, he could put it on Lockett's chest blindfolded.

Agree 100%. The kicking into the forwad 50 was absolute rubbish. This killed us. Compared to precise, measured entry Geelong forwards got, its no wonder they won in the end.

Raph Clarke as sub, seriously what was the f***ing point? Gave us nothing just like he did against Carlton.

Agree 100%

 

[saber_32au]

And how are we ever going to win any big games with a non functioning forward line. I mean seriously who is our forward coach. They should be sacked! Individual players have improved and we have a team full of stars but until we get a forward line that can kick goals were heading backwards.

Yep, spot on. Forward line is not functioning. Adam Kingsley is our forward line coach. Strange, when he played for Port Power he was a defender...

There were some seriously good individual performances tonight. Including McEvoy, Peake, Fisher, Armo, Dempster and Steven again but very little support from our bottom end players Grams kicking efficency was pathetic and I think cost us at least 2 goals against. Clarke did nothing again. Shcnider was very quiet again. Baker can only defend now, he doesnt trust his kicking. The list goes on and on, WHEN ARE THE COACHES GOING TO REALISE WE CAN'T KEEP CARRYING THESE PLAYERS AND EXPECT TO WIN GAMES!

I'd also add C Jones to the best list. But again I agree with your points concerning Gram, Baker and Clarke. In my opinion, there are better, younger alternatives running around in the VLF, who need to come in and replace these blokes.