Autopsy Round 14: Hawks fall in a hole v Bombres

[Cyril says]

I've not updated the sig in a long time
It'd be about 1300 by now

It’s a perfect game.

 

[Xtreme]

It’s a perfect game.

Greatest display of football I've ever seen. Hence why I love it so much.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Who said the desired result was a loss?

He clearly wanted specific players in specific positions, and was telling Burns that in no uncertain terms.

Clarkson clearly wants to see what players have got over these last weeks and he expects the set ups to be followed regardless of if Tom and Worp are in the middle, or Minch and Cousins.

My thoughts exactly. If it was a pre-lim you can’t tell me BB and Wingards wouldn’t have taken a single centre bounce.

 

[RoughysMullet]

Really hard to know what to make of that game.

Our first half was a Hawthorn supporters dream, great ball movement/cohesion and young players contributing strongly - Day, Scrimshaw, Cousins, CJ and even Hanrahan we're great. Our ball movement looked assured and we played with method and purpose.

But Essendon's defensive pressure in the first half was the worst I had seen in some time.

The second half was a continuation of a really concerning theme, our midfield getting absolutely thrashed. This seems to happen roughly every second week and it is hugely troubling (I have also noticed this coincides with Ceglar playing, but not convinced he's the primary reason). I'm really concerned about TOM - his intensity is non existent. He's still an amazing aerobic beast and just knows where to find the football, but the hard ball wins and ferocious tackling have been noticeably gone this year. Shiels, who I've always liked and who has always been inconsistent, has been more bad than good this year.

I hope we continue to try to move the ball as we did in the first half, and would love to see us try a different midfield structure. I would also be giving Shield a spell and trying Chad in the midfield a little more - really hoping Finn gets a game next week too.

Might be more tough watching coming up over the next few weeks, let's all take solace in some glimpses from our younger players and the hope our first early pick in a decade will bring...

Just on Mitchell- it’s worth noting he gets some pretty close attention from the opposition at the stoppages.
Was watching him closely yesterday- particularly in the 2nd half - he was held, scragged and at one point pulled off the footy at the stoppages.
It was only in the last 2 minutes the umpires cottoned on and actually gave him a free kick but unfortunately the game was already over at that point..

 

[Billyc]

No good blaming the coach, bad kicking is bad football. The game should have been over at half time.

Completely agree. But for basic skill errors from multiple players in front of goal, we are up by 10 goals at half time.

 

[happy_hawks]

While tanking is too strong, I don't think a Hawthorn team would ever set out to lose, there were signs last night the focus was development and learning rather than prioritising the win.

Persisting with McEvoy on Daniher, Ceglar in the ruck, Bruest and Wingard staying forward with no burst in the middle despite our one paced midfield being beaten out of the centre, prioritising Cousins and even Hanrahan at times in the middle and Gunston staying forward when in the past he's been thrown back to help stem opposition momentum, were to me indications of a focus on seeing who can play specific roles and teaching some lessons the hard way by persisting with them even though they were getting beaten.

Of course we wanted to win, but perhaps not at the expense of the bigger picture, ie developing players and seeing who is worth sticking or moving on.

 

[Zack]

The other issue as above was that Cousins can't play offensively and defensively at the same time.

We are seriously letting off Worpel and Mitchell, they too are defensively non existent when the ball is in open play (JOM does a tower of work covering for them which is rarely recognized). You mentioned Shiels having perhaps his most non-contributing game of his career which definitely exacerbated the issue.

The one thing though that did seem somewhat noticeable was Essendon in the first half struggled to get the ball out of most contests where a bigger bodied and defensively minded Howe was at, our mids let him to the heavy packwork on them and spread a little bit because of it, yet in the second half we seemed to banish Howe to the back pocket so we lost our one defensive midfielder who was having a defensive impact and freeing our other midfielders.

 

[TylerDurden]

Prick.

 

[Mercy Seat]

My thoughts exactly. If it was a pre-lim you can’t tell me BB and Wingards wouldn’t have taken a single centre bounce.

BB did play some centre bounces in the second half last night.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Mitchell? Had 18 tackles in 2 weeks!
He's 8th in the competition for contested ball! 12 contested possessions last night.
Take him out of there and we are fodder.
Needs to work on his disposal, but you can't knock his tenacity at the footy.

Shiels on the other hand. 9 touches, 0 tackles. Was a disgrace when the whips were cracking.

TD
Mitchell was crap last night and for me I played a little game of watch Mitchell's direct opponent rack up centre bounce clearances. I understand that it's a game of 4 vs 4 in the guts and it's a little more complicated than just his man but Geez they work off him pretty quickly and he is basically powerless to do anything about it at the moment.
Just looking at it in terms of one vs one.

 

[TylerDurden]

TD
Mitchell was crap last night and for me I played a little game of watch Mitchell's direct opponent rack up centre bounce clearances. I understand that it's a game of 4 vs 4 in the guts and it's a little more complicated than just his man but Geez they work off him pretty quickly and he is basically powerless to do anything about it at the moment.
Just looking at it in terms of one vs one.

Defensive game needs work. He's still building fitness.
But take him out of there and it's a 10 goal loss.

Just look at Shiels' numbers, if that's the next best we have in line. Diabolical.

 

[RiverRiver]

Yeah man I’m so frustrated that Ceglar isn’t tapping it to himself and running out of the middle kicking goals from the centre square like BigBoy does man... You dweebs loved the first half?! cool story man the first half we also got smashed through the middle our saving grace was our intercept markings and then cutting them up. Who was doing most of this marking you ask? It was BigBoy.
I don’t like to bite on vent posts and at risk of sounding over simplistic but surely you all understand that ruckman rarely win or lose you games?

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

also worth noting that Worpel's last few weeks (bar that third quarter) has replicated his 2019 BnF form, has been glorious to watch at times after many thought he'd regressed or ... god forbid... stagnated...

i think we need to see howe and cousins laying more tackles, would go a long way to preventing teams going on runs like they did

Second half was deplorable . A few guys will have lines through them after that.
And thats what we need the rest of the season to be , who we go forward with and who we dont.

As much as that loss and the way it was lost stings we need to play the long game here .

People want to play kids , we lose like that and the kids arent up to it.
We want high draft picks and moan that we havent had access for ages , lose like that and people arent happy.
Clarko doesnt make changes , people arent happy . He makes changes but they are the wrong changes.

People want improvement and the club too succeed , maybe we just need to cop it for the rest of the season to allow us to do just that .

i really think the biggest lines drawn will be minch unfortunately, he just offered nothing other than a goal that he really should've passed off anyway. feel for the bloke but it's a tough gig and it just doesn't seem like he has it.

Ceglar, meh, Big Boy was close to BoG and i don't think playing him mid fixes any of our actual midfield issues other than maybe getting us a slim win here. Worth noting Ceglar actually lifted in the last quarter and particularly the last 5 minutes when many of our other players went to water and we still got pumped in the clearances. I think our defensive midfield work is much more an issue than our ruckman, particularly with Worpel not playing that role anymore and being more focussed on attacking

Just on Mitchell- it’s worth noting he gets some pretty close attention from the opposition at the stoppages.
Was watching him closely yesterday- particularly in the 2nd half - he was held, scragged and at one point pulled off the footy at the stoppages.
It was only in the last 2 minutes the umpires cottoned on and actually gave him a free kick but unfortunately the game was already over at that point..

it was Shiel right? I noticed Shiel, and a couple other of the Essendon mids, really focussed on grabbing and blocking in the second half which we don't react well to. Same thing happened vs Fremantle with Mundy tearing us a new one by just grabbing, pushing and physically outmatching us. Not too sure how we deal with it , hopefully it's something Sam has noticed and can work on during the offseason — he played that role close to perfection in the 13 GF so he knows a thing or two about how to overcome it

 

[Pessimistic]

Who said the desired result was a loss?

He clearly wanted specific players in specific positions, and was telling Burns that in no uncertain terms.

Clarkson clearly wants to see what players have got over these last weeks and he expects the set ups to be followed regardless of if Tom and Worp are in the middle, or Minch and Cousins.

I wasnt joking when I said how long is the pre season. Go hard for a half, best efforts, the try a few things out second half

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Yeah man I’m so frustrated that Ceglar isn’t tapping it to himself and running out of the middle kicking goals from the centre square like BigBoy does man... You dweebs loved the first half?! cool story man the first half we also got smashed through the middle our saving grace was our intercept markings and then cutting them up. Who was doing most of this marking you ask? It was BigBoy.
I don’t like to bite on vent posts and at risk of sounding over simplistic but surely you all understand that ruckman rarely win or lose you games?

NicNat is the only exception. The second best tap ruckman in the game is Goldstein, and we see how well that is translating to wins for them.

Gawn and Grundy are good tap ruckmen too but their value really comes from work around the ground

 

[TazHawk15]

That along with last weeks game was magical by Clarko, smash PA then smash Essendank and give the order to ease up and ensure our best draft position in donkeys years.

Sensational planning.

The master strikes again.

 

[Kanga Commando]

Prick.

Hawthorn player infringed upon.
Nothing to see here.

 

[OhhhhhCyril]

Woke up with a sour taste in my mouth. Still can’t believe what happened after half time. I really want this season to hurry up and end so we can reassess the list in a big way.
what’s the maximum amount of players we can send away because I can count more than 10.

 

[thejockey]

Our under 24s are probably the worst in the comp bar maybe North or Adelaide, so it's clear that our kids aren't really up to it.

People keep saying that , but most of them are untried and have played minimal games . They will get more exposure .
Our top end youth is the issue , but thats more about lacking top 10 picks for years.

We get a decent crack at a good pick this year , maybe we can work another in also.

 

[thejockey]

Hawthorn player infringed upon.
Nothing to see here.

Reckon Gunston will get a few for that

 

[Quacker5]

As hard as it is to lose to Essendon, particularly like that, you have to look at the positives or you'll do your head in:

- Another step closer to a strong draft hand
- Promising signs in the first half from CJ, Hanrahan and Cousins
- The implementation of a new ball movement style worked in the first half and was great to watch, hopefully being a sign of things to come.
- Worpel's first half - he can make it to the elite level with continued improvement on his decision making
- Hartley is a beautiful kick and fits in nicely.
- Jeez Gunston and breust are still guns

Perhaps most importantly for me, the loss expedites the microscope on our issues where a win may not have:
- the mediocrity in the team to be turned over i.e O'brien, Minchington, Ceglar, Howe (a tough back back up soldier), Glass. Just play others - they aren't our future and if they are we are going nowhere.
- A slow on ball division led by an inept ruckman. What we would give for a whippy, skillful mid, for which Essendon had 3 top class ones?

 

[apiro]

We are not tanking. We have been rubbish all season and tonight was just an extension of a poor year.

Once the elephant in the room is addressed regarding leadership and the hard calls made on a few senior players there will be clear air and finally some direction again.

At the minute we are in no mans land as a list.

This is the frightening bit!

 

[Come back Cyril]

Just on Mitchell- it’s worth noting he gets some pretty close attention from the opposition at the stoppages.
Was watching him closely yesterday- particularly in the 2nd half - he was held, scragged and at one point pulled off the footy at the stoppages.
It was only in the last 2 minutes the umpires cottoned on and actually gave him a free kick but unfortunately the game was already over at that point..

Thanks. I didn't watch closely enough to pick that up, but that may further explain the midfield issue.

My comments on Mitchell, though, aren't based on this game alone. I think Mitchell is far from the sole issue, as it seems to be as much a system/cohesion issue where other teams are able to block/scrag and explode out of the clearances. However, I do think Mitchell is a long way from his peak explosiveness around the ball. I don't know whether it's physical or mental, but I just haven't seen that power/quick twitch desperation from him. I do think he's trying hard, and he still wins some contest here and there - but its rare now that he wins a key centre bounce clearance for us - which he always seemed to do in 2018. I hope this is just a case of him still trying to get back to his best, but this version of Mitchell is not one you can build a midfield around like pre injury TOM.

 

[savagelunchbox]

For those defending the McEvoy on Daniher decision, in the second half, Daniher scored more than what the whole Hawthorn team scored.

And the only real significant change was that they kicked in front of him instead of on his head.

As soon as the ball was anywhere else except above McEvoy's head, he was cooked. He tried his guts out, but he was not a good matchup.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

As hard as it is to lose to Essendon, particularly like that, you have to look at the positives or you'll do your head in:

- Another step closer to a strong draft hand
- Promising signs in the first half from CJ, Hanrahan and Cousins
- The implementation of a new ball movement style worked in the first half and was great to watch, hopefully being a sign of things to come.
- Worpel's first half - he can make it to the elite level with continued improvement on his decision making
- Hartley is a beautiful kick and fits in nicely.
- Jeez Gunston and breust are still guns

Perhaps most importantly for me, the loss expedites the microscope on our issues where a win may not have:
- the mediocrity in the team to be turned over i.e O'brien, Minchington, Ceglar, Howe (a tough back back up soldier), Glass. Just play others - they aren't our future and if they are we are going nowhere.
- A slow on ball division led by an inept ruckman. What we would give for a whippy, skillful mid, for which Essendon had 3 top class ones?

I thought that Howe played terrific last night - second up in his first game of the year and an injury riddled preseason. He is a keeper and better than just a back up soldier.

Minchington is a no brainer delisting and should not play for the rest of the season, if he does I will dead set do a Terry Wallace. Ceglar should also play scrimmages for the rest of the year, has embarrassed himself this year and I don't often say that about players. Give Reeves a couple of games with Big Boy to see how far off it he is. Please keep persisting with Glass, has speed, good attack on the ball and a really nice kick. For the love of god please play Moore (in place of Minchtington) OR bring back Morris and pump games into him. TOB stays as we have no other alternatives, let him play alongside Lewis for the rest of the year as they have played well together before. The Jon Patton experiment has failed, his body is shot and just not up to the rigours of AFL. Has a preseason to try and get his body right but I can't see it happening

Not all doom and gloom, Hanrahan and Jiath showed some real X factor last night and definately worth persisting with. Hartley and Frost are no world beaters but good defenders just need another big tall who can consistently take contested marks - not giving up on Kosi just yet. I'm excited about the draft, as mentioned previously, this is the year that you really want a top 5 pick which we will get. Coupled wit Norths second pick and Downie, we get a much needed injection of quality kids.