Autopsy Round 15, 2023: St.Kilda v Brisbane *SPUD'S GAME* *CROUCH 150TH* *MARSHALL 100TH*

[Yawkey way]

Hipwood who is a spud was ripping down contested marks and converting, so was Daniher. King and Caminiti dropped them even out on leads. They were nearly the difference. We need class and impact out of the middle.

Marshall is a liability when he rucks except against a very specific type.... a better midfield wouldn't need the tap work to win the ball.

So many of our mids are missing, down on form or injured. It's a real shame with timing that Taranto and Hopper were available the only year we decided to chase players at the draft. Either of those and DeGoey and we look a lot different.

I'd be offering up insane money front loaded for Parish and perhaps one of the Dows on the cheap.....and keep chasing young mids in the draft to come up behind them.

Defence would look a lot better with a solid midfield behind them. Forwards would get better supply with better mids. Wings need replacing too. Hill and Wood probably only have 2 season left.

We just weren’t good enough, we just don’t have the players. I can’t be bothered singling out players we seemed to be up for the contest and I don’t share the common view that only sinclair played well. I picked Brisbane to finish top and win the flag so a few players and a bit of luck away from a win isn’t a disaster. Finding the right players with one first round pick and not a lot of surplus with trade capital won’t be easy but a few players could transform this side.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

How did you view Sharman tonight?

I’m sure cairnsman loved that passage of play where the Brisbane player kept running away from Sharman with the ball bounced it like 3 or 4 times and no matter what Sharman couldn’t gain any distance on him

 

[Klaatu]

Should of moved King onto Andrew’s & Camaniti deep forward, Andrew’s out mussel Cama.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Sh*t game. Not surprised one bit - our form recently has been dreadful.

Genuinely shocked how poor this side looks compared to the first two months of the season.
Did we just play our hearts out with nothing to lose knowing we had a "horrid" injury list and now we're cooked?

This for me has bigger ramification. We won't play finals, need at least 5 or 6 wins from here (not sure where tf those are going to come from)
BUT this is the time of year free agents and player movements start gathering steam and spoken about. If we're looking strong with finals on the cards players from other clubs actually look at the club with interest.... not a good look if we lose to the Eagles next week. Genuinely season over if we lose that one.

I mentioned a lot that 110% effort isn’t a sustainable game plan and I thought that might have been what resulted in our wins early

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Wilkie has runs on the board but he’s been ******* awful the last fortnight.

If we plays himself out of all Australian Contention I will be beyond Angry.

What my hopes and dreams are for this season is Wilkie AA lock and Mitchito Rising star.

 

[phantom13]

If we plays himself out of all Australian Contention I will be beyond Angry.

What my hopes and dreams are for this season is Wilkie AA lock and Mitchito Rising star.

It’s red hot for AA competition in that backline. I kinda think unless he turns it around before Sicily gets back he might be in strife.

 

[Saint Shags]

The club has been trying to extract every drop from ordinary lists for too long and never drafted or developed enough youth. We didn't know which ones to persist with or drop and have generally run the footy department with no eye over it.

Coaches can only do so much. We had injury and fell away last year, got injury this year and fell way again. I think there is a theme. We need to keep stockpiling talent and making the most of it.

What Lyon has shown us is that the list just isn't in the same league as the top 4 sides and with injury we don't look top 8. Who knows what we need now. It's kind of frustratingly close but so far away.

And to think the guy that helped with Football Department issues like the type of players we got in ended up CEO.

 

[gringo2011]

I reckon it's a bit of not having confidence in yourself but also not having confidence in your team-mates as well.
When you start second guessing yourself the panic sets in, handballs are rushed and land at players feet or miss them completely. Guys are caught more often in tackles. Players try to nurse kicks instead of kicking through the ball.
Watch the top teams and they move the ball smarter and sharper than what we do. I thought we did this well in the first 5 rounds. Maybe we need to go back and look at what we were doing back then.

To me it all comes back to the midfield. I round one Steele, Crouch Byrnes, Sincs all over 25 possessions and Wilkie, Stocker, Hill, Wood all had great games. Clark and Gresham with 18 and 17 disposals. Bytel, Battle and Owens all over 15 touches and the only players with low numbers were the forwards who were efficient with what they did get.

That's a very even contribution with no stand outs doing the bulk of the work. It was all very team first. Now we have Crouch and a lot of passengers.You aren't beating much with that.

 

[AirWinmar]

If we get exposed no defender will help. Forwards are going to have good nights and take marks, what you want is the supply or quality of entry limited.

But we're never going to have a great interceptor because Wilie and Battle both need play very defensive to compensate. Get a quality kpd and Wilkie will be like Tom Stewart I reckon

 

[phantom13]

But we're never going to have a great interceptor because Wilie and Battle both need play very defensive to compensate. Get a quality kpd and Wilkie will be like Tom Stewart I reckon

Personally don’t think that’s personnel, I think that’s structure.

Doogs should be playing deep as a pure lockdown defender. Battle plays on the higher roaming forward as another lockdown but with license to let his opponent go get kicks on the wing. Wilkie gets third tall/small and basically plays loose.
It’s not like Hawthorn has unreal kpd stocks but they manage to have a great structure that works really well with one absolute star in Sicily, Collingwood the same with Moore and a stack of role playing talls.

 

[Sully111]

Reckon Pou will be getting sick of the ball sailing over his head or dropping in front of him every time he leads at the ball.

Our inability to hit targets is our biggest issue imo, along with a weak midfield

 

[AirWinmar]

On defece of our mids, got to say Marshall made it very difficult for our mids at clearance at times. Clearance will be hard when your ruckman puts it straight to the oppo

 

[Mowman]

If we plays himself out of all Australian Contention I will be beyond Angry.

What my hopes and dreams are for this season is Wilkie AA lock and Mitchito Rising star.

Surely playing finals ahead of individual awards

 

[Yawkey way]

I mentioned a lot that 110% effort isn’t a sustainable game plan and I thought that might have been what resulted in our wins early

We need to think very carefully about exactly what we need. You can’t control a game with effort alone, we were too small and we‘re not strong in the air. The pressure that puts on the team is a great as being undermanned in the mids. You have to be able to at least halve those contests and we can’t. How many teams have had a player dine out against us taking intercept marks.

 

[AirWinmar]

Personally don’t think that’s personnel, I think that’s structure.

Doogs should be playing deep as a pure lockdown defender. Battle plays on the higher roaming forward as another lockdown but with license to let his opponent go get kicks on the wing. Wilkie gets third tall/small and basically plays loose.
It’s not like Hawthorn has unreal kpd stocks but they manage to have a great structure that works really well with one absolute star in Sicily, Collingwood the same with Moore and a stack of role playing talls.

You may be right, but I think Battle and Howard are just not good enough defensively which means Wilkie is trying to do overtime - poor bugger is going to lose his hair soon!! Battle should be able to be that interceptor tho if we use Wilkie defensively, but not sure he has it in him to become elite in it. Maybe Sharman could

 

[AirWinmar]

Reckon Pou will be getting sick of the ball sailing over his head or dropping in front of him every time he leads at the ball.

Our inability to hit targets is our biggest issue imo, along with a weak midfield

It does seem that our forwards often run to awkward spots for the kicker as well

 

[gringo2011]

I just don't see the logic in not throwing them in there. Ashcroft and Fletcher are higher calibre players, but Owens and Windhager aren't far off. We also drafted Mattaes who was a mid/fwd and then we exclusively play him forward.

Lions held their width in the stoppage all night and just waited for our players to get sucked in. The amount of times the ball got flicked out to the fat side of the stoppage and landed straight into the arms of a Lions player was just ridiculous.

Those guys are playing a kind of mid role without being exposed to a smashing inside the centre bounce. Phillipou was playing like a high half forward and moving up following the play. Often we have no-one in the forward half. Those kids are rolling up with the play.

The difference with Ashcroft types is that they have some stars that take all the attention and their kids can run free and build confidence. We have ruined plenty of kids expecting them to do more than they were capable of and losing all confidence over the years.

A few kids look ready for a bit of a rest but the cupboard is bare behind them.

To me Bytel is probably the only fit option who can come in and play in the middle next week. Big call but I'd drop or move Steele to a pocket or something and throw Bytel in. He couldn't be any worse.

 

[gringo2011]

You may be right, but I think Battle and Howard are just not good enough defensively which means Wilkie is trying to do overtime - poor bugger is going to lose his hair soon!! Battle should be able to be that interceptor tho if we use Wilkie defensively, but not sure he has it in him to become elite in it. Maybe Sharman could

I thought Battle was good at it last night.

 

[phantom13]

You may be right, but I think Battle and Howard are just not good enough defensively which means Wilkie is trying to do overtime - poor bugger is going to lose his hair soon!! Battle should be able to be that interceptor tho if we use Wilkie defensively, but not sure he has it in him to become elite in it. Maybe Sharman could

Probably right. Personally I think Battle has been pretty good all year and isn’t the issue at all. I think he does that hybrid role pretty well.

Wilkie had been elite until a few weeks back but I don’t think his issues have come from having to cover for Battle or Howard. Last night as an example, Hipwood got off the chain, it happens but outside of that
Rayner, Dunkley, Berry, Coleman and Bailey kicked goals. Our midfield wasn’t getting back to help (NAS and Hill aside).

I lament Howard more than most, one of the dumbest footballers to ever walk the face of the earth but a good coach would get him to play his role better.

Anyway, who the **** knows, we look lost everywhere right now.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I just don't see the logic in not throwing them in there. Ashcroft and Fletcher are higher calibre players, but Owens and Windhager aren't far off. We also drafted Mattaes who was a mid/fwd and then we exclusively play him forward.

Lions held their width in the stoppage all night and just waited for our players to get sucked in. The amount of times the ball got flicked out to the fat side of the stoppage and landed straight into the arms of a Lions player was just ridiculous.

That's the way we play though - numbers to the ball, no outside set ups, so when we win the ball its either a very short handball to a player under pressure or a dump kick forward.

Its almost like the coaches don't think the mids can win a contest unless its by outnumbering.

 

[gringo2011]

We just weren’t good enough, we just don’t have the players. I can’t be bothered singling out players we seemed to be up for the contest and I don’t share the common view that only sinclair played well. I picked Brisbane to finish top and win the flag so a few players and a bit of luck away from a win isn’t a disaster. Finding the right players with one first round pick and not a lot of surplus with trade capital won’t be easy but a few players could transform this side.

I thought we tried our arses off but it looked like a class and experience gulf. We were trying to hold back the dam wall and they kept coming. Again we made them take low percentage shots but weight of numbers broke us down eventually.

 

[Saint Shags]

Just watched Ross’s presser and apologies if if this was already covered but a few times he pointedly referenced “the personnel we need “. First time I can recall he has called out the list turnover we need!

Then maybe in this year of exploration we could actually see which players were worth keeping.
Someone said in the game day thread that we've used 4 less players this year than the next team.
Whilst a large portion of our injuries have been to those who could be best 22. Surely giving the likes of Connolly, Heath and even Peris a taste wouldn't necessarily be the worst idea? Hell even give a good crack to Bytel?

If this is a year of exploration let's ****ing explore. Not do the same shit every week.

 

[AirWinmar]

I thought Battle was good at it last night.

Yeah he was decent, but a fair way off something like a May, Sicily, Stewart, etc. We need to get to that level of interceptor. Will make it a lot easier for us if we can have 1 or 2 strong defensive interceptors

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I thought Battle was good at it last night.

I turned off before half time but I thought Battle made some very low IQ plays.
Like vegetable dribble level plays.

 

[phantom13]

That's the way we play though - numbers to the ball, no outside set ups, so when we win the ball its either a very short handball to a player under pressure or a dump kick forward.

Its almost like the coaches don't think the mids can win a contest unless its by outnumbering.

Even when we outnumber it’s all at the coalface and no one spreading or spacing. It’s been evident for a few weeks but last night it was actually horrible. One or two lions at the contest and the rest spreading to stop us getting out clean or get away clean themselves.