Autopsy Round 15, 2023: St.Kilda v Brisbane *SPUD'S GAME* *CROUCH 150TH* *MARSHALL 100TH*

[BigPowerForward]

It is amazing how we looked like a well drilled team the first 5 or 6 rounds and now look like we're playing chaos ball. We're carrying a few niggles, but that doesn't account for a lot of the chaos ball we're playing.

I'm thinking maybe due to our success it's put expectation and pressure on and caused us to start playing like headless chooks.

In my view, forget about finals - just play the right way so it gets ingrained and let the results unfold

Teams have worked us out AW.
Good teams are able to adapt their game style to deal with how oppostion teams are structuring up against them.
We are not there yet. If plan A fails, we don't have enough leadership on the field to morph into plan B or plan C.
We seriously need to address the leadership issue because adding a talented midfield alone will not guarantee success. Gold coast and GWS are evidence of this.

 

[The Cobra]

We have been ordinary & inconsistent since quarter time against Port. Up till then we had a clear game style that we implemented.

Generally speaking can’t fault the effort but the game plan has been picked apart/not been adhered to by the players. A number of key players are also down on confidence. This is compounded by the fact that due to injuries we have few AFL ready players to put on selection pressure - Bytel, Cordy (not an upgrade) & Campbell maybe (could have used Campbell last night!)

Ok so at the risk of starting WWIII here is my idiots guide to last nights team:

Sincs - our only A grader - B&F and AA lock - needs to be played as a mid wherever possible
Crouch- very good player - turns up every week- needs better explosive mids around him
Windy - busted a gut in Q3 last night - the future - needs continuity in the team as a mid
Owens- developing elite mid/forward
Nas - developing elite HBF
Pou - refer Owens just a season behind but needs to work on his speed
Marshall - poor tap ruckman but excellent around the ground - desperately needs a proper 2nd ruck/forward to give him assistance against the monsters (not Owens!)
King - generally been very good since he returned - needs better delivery
Butler- excellent small pressure forward who is giving everything
Higgo- generally pretty good & improved goal kicking
Hammer - got him for nothing - running out of steam as to be expected & u would probably give him a break if there was a replacement but has shown enough to think he could be a long term KPF
Steele- tried hard last night but not much influence - clearly playing injured but struggling big time - not convinced he is a leader- too one paced - can’t play Crouch, Ross & Steele all as mids at the same time
Gresham - never was or will be a mid - just a dangerous small forward on his day - poor disposal by foot and doesn’t tackle - if he goes at the end of the season - meh!
Webster- good last night & does a job most weeks
Paton - struggling - feels very sorry for him - that broken leg was a huge setback to his career
Byrnes - showed promise early but really struggling - not sure he will make it
Stocker - solid player - excellent pick up for nothing - hopefully more upside
Sharman - hard to get a read on him - won’t really know until he gets a good run at it at AFL level which may not happen
Wilkie - excellent player but now can’t get loose to play the key rebounding role which I think is a key as to why our system has broken down - down on confidence
Howard - too many dumb mistakes for an experienced player and just not a great key defender - not the future but nothing ready to replace him
Battle- decent but a bit undersized for playing on the monster forwards.
Hill - good last night and has been on a number of occasions this year & one of few elite users by foot - when he has a poor game gives the team very little
Wood - was excellent until he did his shoulder - playing jabbed up which has reduced his impact

 

[AirWinmar]

Battle had 9 intercepts last night

Yeah not saying he wasn't good intercepting, just don't know if he can get to the level of a Sicily, May, etc. Think Wilkie probably could, but we need him to cover defensively

 

[Yawkey way]

Those guys are playing a kind of mid role without being exposed to a smashing inside the centre bounce. Phillipou was playing like a high half forward and moving up following the play. Often we have no-one in the forward half. Those kids are rolling up with the play.

The difference with Ashcroft types is that they have some stars that take all the attention and their kids can run free and build confidence. We have ruined plenty of kids expecting them to do more than they were capable of and losing all confidence over the years.

A few kids look ready for a bit of a rest but the cupboard is bare behind them.

To me Bytel is probably the only fit option who can come in and play in the middle next week. Big call but I'd drop or move Steele to a pocket or something and throw Bytel in. He couldn't be any worse.

We have some talent and depth but injuries have made it tough for us. Hotton, Keeler, vas es, adams, Heath are all a chance to become regulars who haven’t been sighted yet. Billings, coffield, Jones, McKenzie, clark, mebrey, Hayes and Ross make up a pretty handy group who weren‘t available last night, Imo some of those guys are definitely playing last night if fit.

We have to be very honest but also pragmatic at the end of the season, no point selling low on players who can still provide value unless we have an opportunity to upgrade. We also need to prioritise our needs and only check down if we absolutely can’t get what we have at number 1 etc.

Gresham seems out the door and I doubt it will be hard to find another 4 or 5, that’s enough Imo there’s no need to cut harder.

 

[MordySaint]

Midfield definitely one of the weakest in the league. Then to rest Seb Ross... WTF... we definitely went in weaker by not having him in.

Club has completely ignored drafting mid-fielders for 15 years, it's really showing now.

Really hope we can bounce back next week.

Cudos to Jimmy Webster

29

Jimmy Webster

Age

31

Ht

188cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.7

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

288.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.8

4star

, another great game. Tried his guts out.... love the bloke.

 

[Xxxx66]

We have though. For 10 years we have put up with this performance level.
We have waited 50 plus years for a premiership.

Supporters have put the effort in to support in spades. We for far too long accept mediocrity.

It's a major issue. The mood in the crowd was subdued from about 5 minutes in. People won't turn up and watch that rubbish nor will neutral people watch it on the telly.

 

[Xxxx66]

I reckon he has been carrying something. I noticed weeks ago during the warm up he was running a bit stodgy. Him Steele and Wood all seem to not be moving that well

Wood is half the player since that shoulder injury

 

[Xxxx66]

If the list is the problem, then why aren't we changing it up? I'd rather see blokes like Highmore, Bytel, and Connolly get a go as opposed to the same blokes we've seen all year. I understand the list is pretty thin at the moment, but its not like we don't have options.

Think there will be major list cuts end of year. I don't think we have many options at sandy

 

[Toppa]

Dont get the hill love. The bloke plays so wide he may as well be in the car park. He would be close to the softest player i have ever seen. Loses every single contest, cant or wont tackle, never puts his body on the line and misses more targets that he hits. I dont give a stuff how he runs hard to fill space, opposition have no issues going thru him or his man - its a guaranteed win.

Howard MUST go.

The entire philosophy needs to change. Playing for wins now is counter productive to long term success. I dont wanna scrape into 7/8th lose weel one final and end up with a pick in the teens when we can use the last 8 weeks to shift the focus to playing exciting, free flowing attacking football.

Yes we might(probably) lose more games but maybe, just maybe we will see real growth and development in players with natural talent and flair when encouraged to take the game on.

Owens
Poo
NWM
Sinclair
Windy
Butler
King
Stocker

Would all flourish further If they actually enjoyed football again.

Might even help attract players from other clubs

This mantra of we must learn to defend 1st is horse crap. It doesnt matter how well you defend if you cant move the ball or score. The sheer weight of inside 50s against (even elite defensive teams) results in losses.

Id rather lose trying to win

 

[Miha]

I really liked Highmore in 2021 but it looks like we’re choc full of interceptors and he’ll be gone end of year

 

[Xxxx66]

You've got the early wins on the board which counts for heaps, with West Coast coming up. Keep on punching Saints!

We surprised a few early with our fitness and game style. Other coaches have watched and adjusted, other teams are fitter and we don't appear to have a plan b.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Yes, I know that. I just can't be bothered spending anymore time on it.

because, in the mean time, every three months a person's torn to pieces by a crocodile in north queensland

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Hard to tell, but I think Battle created some issues for us defensively. Looked like he had the job of coming 3rd in and it didn't work

agree, wilkie seemed to be covering two talls a number of times, battle no where to be seen

 

[BrutThough]

Thought that last night showed how desperately we need another quality tall defender (and not to replace Howard) and a genuine 2nd ruck/forward.

On a side note - anybody know what the record for most possessions without a kick is? Phillipou had 12 possessions - all handballs.

Phillipou needs to back himself in more. He dishes it of quickly, which can be good when he's under pressure, but he's also a very good kick and we would benefit from him kicking it more than others.

 

[phantom13]

Dont get the hill love. The bloke plays so wide he may as well be in the car park. He would be close to the softest player i have ever seen. Loses every single contest, cant or wont tackle, never puts his body on the line and misses more targets that he hits. I dont give a stuff how he runs hard to fill space, opposition have no issues going thru him or his man - its a guaranteed win.

Howard MUST go.

The entire philosophy needs to change. Playing for wins now is counter productive to long term success. I dont wanna scrape into 7/8th lose weel one final and end up with a pick in the teens when we can use the last 8 weeks to shift the focus to playing exciting, free flowing attacking football.

Yes we might(probably) lose more games but maybe, just maybe we will see real growth and development in players with natural talent and flair when encouraged to take the game on.

Owens
Poo
NWM
Sinclair
Windy
Butler
King
Stocker

Would all flourish further If they actually enjoyed football again.

Might even help attract players from other clubs

This mantra of we must learn to defend 1st is horse crap. It doesnt matter how well you defend if you cant move the ball or score. The sheer weight of inside 50s against (even elite defensive teams) results in losses.

Id rather lose trying to win

I give Hill more shit than just about anyone but his role is to stay wide, he’s not a contested player and to be frank when it was his turn to go last night he did and he wore a big knee and elbow from Daniher (I think).

His “elite” kicking leaves alot to be desired but he’s not even a problem imo.

 

[Xxxx66]

The Punter
Kicking into that 50 again mate was terrible
What the hell?
Watched one of our few fast transitions into there and king still had two on him and we still kicked it to him in a pack as he couldn’t or didn’t lead

Again, the intercept defender had 7 marks by the half

Hammer tried but he either ran under the footy or we kicked it over him early

Problem is Hammer is a project player and not yet AFL quality so doesn't get much respect from a key defender like Andrews

 

[Xxxx66]

Max King seems mentally fragile to me.

His recent faux tough guy stuff seems forced.

Has the talent, but needs to get in a better headspace consistently.

Oppo clubs know that Max struggles with the rough stuff. It's not his go. Still needs plenty of gym time and grappling training with a John Donehue

 

[jh38]

agree, wilkie seemed to be covering two talls a number of times, battle no where to be seen

I think that was more a product of how the lions were playing. They made a real conscious effort to drag our players all over the place in defence. There was one contest in particular where one of their forwards dragged Battle right up to centre half forward, there was also another where they created a massive mismatch where Hipwood and 2 other players were all streaming to the goalsquare on the fat side, and Nas was the only player marking them. Credit to them and Fagan for doing that so well.

 

[Xxxx66]

Should of moved King onto Andrew’s & Camaniti deep forward, Andrew’s out mussel Cama.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Would rather cama to sandy, Marshall forward and Campbell in the ruck and then recruit another first ruck

 

[Xxxx66]

I wasn’t there and that’s usually a lot better to see that stuff but I can’t work out how they had so much space inside their 50 and through the corridor over and over and over again if it wasn’t effort.

Footy IQ and effort

 

[Xxxx66]

We have been ordinary & inconsistent since quarter time against Port. Up till then we had a clear game style that we implemented.

Generally speaking can’t fault the effort but the game plan has been picked apart/not been adhered to by the players. A number of key players are also down on confidence. This is compounded by the fact that due to injuries we have few AFL ready players to put on selection pressure - Bytel, Cordy (not an upgrade) & Campbell maybe (could have used Campbell last night!)

Ok so at the risk of starting WWIII here is my idiots guide to last nights team:

Sincs - our only A grader - B&F and AA lock - needs to be played as a mid wherever possible
Crouch- very good player - turns up every week- needs better explosive mids around him
Windy - busted a gut in Q3 last night - the future - needs continuity in the team as a mid
Owens- developing elite mid/forward
Nas - developing elite HBF
Pou - refer Owens just a season behind but needs to work on his speed
Marshall - poor tap ruckman but excellent around the ground - desperately needs a proper 2nd ruck/forward to give him assistance against the monsters (not Owens!)
King - generally been very good since he returned - needs better delivery
Butler- excellent small pressure forward who is giving everything
Higgo- generally pretty good & improved goal kicking
Hammer - got him for nothing - running out of steam as to be expected & u would probably give him a break if there was a replacement but has shown enough to think he could be a long term KPF
Steele- tried hard last night but not much influence - clearly playing injured but struggling big time - not convinced he is a leader- too one paced - can’t play Crouch, Ross & Steele all as mids at the same time
Gresham - never was or will be a mid - just a dangerous small forward on his day - poor disposal by foot and doesn’t tackle - if he goes at the end of the season - meh!
Webster- good last night & does a job most weeks
Paton - struggling - feels very sorry for him - that broken leg was a huge setback to his career
Byrnes - showed promise early but really struggling - not sure he will make it
Stocker - solid player - excellent pick up for nothing - hopefully more upside
Sharman - hard to get a read on him - won’t really know until he gets a good run at it at AFL level which may not happen
Wilkie - excellent player but now can’t get loose to play the key rebounding role which I think is a key as to why our system has broken down - down on confidence
Howard - too many dumb mistakes for an experienced player and just not a great key defender - not the future but nothing ready to replace him
Battle- decent but a bit undersized for playing on the monster forwards.
Hill - good last night and has been on a number of occasions this year & one of few elite users by foot - when he has a poor game gives the team very little
Wood - was excellent until he did his shoulder - playing jabbed up which has reduced his impact

Excellent summation.

 

[jh38]

We have been ordinary & inconsistent since quarter time against Port. Up till then we had a clear game style that we implemented.

Generally speaking can’t fault the effort but the game plan has been picked apart/not been adhered to by the players. A number of key players are also down on confidence. This is compounded by the fact that due to injuries we have few AFL ready players to put on selection pressure - Bytel, Cordy (not an upgrade) & Campbell maybe (could have used Campbell last night!)

The other thing no one has really mentioned is that our slump happened pretty well right after Walsh left his post. Wonder if there's more in that than we think.

 

[Mowman]

Put Owens in the muthaf*k'n midfield!!!..... ffs... He's a bull. It's what we need.

Him and Sincs in there and we'll win a lot more ball.

Getting frustrated as hell.

Yeah ffs

JUST PLAY HIM AS A MID

 

[PandaG]

Hate to say it, but Paton for Seb was NOT an improvement, and he's probably back in next week.

It has to be be Paton for bytel
Looked exception in the first half against a good lions vfl team

 

[StFly]

I really liked Highmore in 2021 but it looks like we’re choc full of interceptors and he’ll be gone end of year

Throw. Him. Forward.

We plug a gap with Sharman who spends half his time with a thumb up his arse wondering which way north is every goddamn match, we have Owens trying to play 3 positions to give ruck chop out, play CHF and play a big mid ala Ro so we can default to "hey Ming, can you beat 4?". We have Hammer just happy to be there getting lead places by defenders, we trialled Cordy who at least evened contests mostly, but hey, here we have some intercept defenders plodding around VFL and we CBF Matty Ferguson it and switching them forward to plug a gap. Go figure.

I suppose we like Higgins being mini plugger so Butler can be the only small, Ming the only tall ands we can all rubbish how the defensive interceptor tries breaking records on oppo ends weekly. Might make 12+ intercepts sometime this year, go you good things.

Oh and we plug by Butlers twin in Robbie because overhead marking is a myth and we never bomb I50 or to anyone in particular and ball just goes to ground for it to be retained in...

Have I stated how much I hate our F50 previously and how I'm hoping Keeler comes good for depth?