Review Round 16, 2024 - Brisbane Lions vs. Melbourne

[buttermuffs]

Shout out to Hipwood with a game high 11 score involvements, even if one was probably from his terrible handball in the last.

Also Lester with 12 interceptions possessions and 8 score involvements. Was sensational and stepped up in important moments.

 

[Miluxx]

Just watched the last qtr. Lohmann had some very impressive touches not to mention the goal on his non preferred. Same with Ashcroft and Reville. So good that our younger less experienced guys had a big say in that win.

 

[Section 5]

I actually thought McKenna played a solid game for us.
He had 18 disposals, 4 marks, 1 goal assist, 4 rebound 50's (Zorko most with 6), 7 intercepts and 3 clangers.
The Lions scored 7 of our 11 goals from their defensive half
Zorko, Starcevich & McKenna the only 3 Lions players to break 500 meters gained. This would have helped in those 7 goals.

McKenna & Zorko can't be marked on their defensive game, but they still need to adhere to the team defense system.
Our overall defense and trying to avoid Gawn when kicking down the line was pretty good.
Proof is that Gawn only took 2 marks for the game. Not the usual 10 plus.
I assume keeping it away from Gawn was the usual coaching instruction.
However, this time the players were able to get it done.

The Demons only took 5 intercept marks for the game their lowest for 15 years.

 

[Zhesty]

Not going to lie, really doubted the steel of the group this year to fight back in the second when Melbourne took the lead. Character building win and easily my favourite of the season. Thought Lester was massive in the last.

 

[briztoon]

Ok, probably going to cop some heat for the following.

First off, haven’t read any of the posts here.

Secondly I missed almost the entire fourth quarter, getting back for the last 3 minutes.

I did watch the first 3 quarters.


Two things I want to comment on.

First, as mentioned in the VFL thread, something I’ve noticed this season when there is a loose ball in dispute, often when we have two or three players around the ball, there often appears confusion as to which of our players will go for the ball. They’ll all hesitate, and an opposition player just goes straight for the ball and clears the ball from congestion.


Secondly, I’ve noticed Neale more often standing outside of a stoppage, in a position to either swoop on a ball that spills from the stoppage, or be the first receiver from a ball handballed out of the stoppage, to then clear the ball from the area.

However, from the eye test, we don’t appear to be breaking even at such stoppages, and it’s harder to identify which of our mids is supposed to be trying to win the ball at the stoppage.

 

[Elixuh]

I actually thought McKenna played a solid game for us.
He had 18 disposals, 4 marks, 1 goal assist, 4 rebound 50's (Zorko most with 6), 7 intercepts and 3 clangers.
The Lions scored 7 of our 11 goals from their defensive half
Zorko, Starcevich & McKenna the only 3 Lions players to break 500 meters gained. This would have helped in those 7 goals.

McKenna & Zorko can't be marked on their defensive game, but they still need to adhere to the team defense system.
Our overall defense and trying to avoid Gawn when kicking down the line was pretty good.
Proof is that Gawn only took 2 marks for the game. Not the usual 10 plus.
I assume keeping it away from Gawn was the usual coaching instruction.
However, this time the players were able to get it done.

The Demons only took 5 intercept marks for the game their lowest for 15 years.

I thought it was McKennas best game for the season so thought I must have been way off the mark based on commentary here.

McKennas season is a switchboard and every light was blinking red after successive injuries. Every week another light switches to green.

I thought this week McKenna got his positioning and attacking read on the play right and seem to have another foot of two or speed.

 

[braddsey]

That’s a game where you celebrate the win and then bury the game tap. Nothing to learn from it.

Good to see us get a comeback win even if we made it incredibly hard for ourselves.

I’d say there’s plenty of learning from it. Those wasted F50 entries that should have been very easy goals… can absolutely learn from that! The 8-goal run-on that Melbourne had, plenty to learn from that.
The great thing is we got the points but made plenty of errors, so looking at those errors doesn’t come with the sting of having lost a game we should have won.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

Ok, probably going to cop some heat for the following.

First off, haven’t read any of the posts here.

Secondly I missed almost the entire fourth quarter, getting back for the last 3 minutes.

I did watch the first 3 quarters.


Two things I want to comment on.

First, as mentioned in the VFL thread, something I’ve noticed this season when there is a loose ball in dispute, often when we have two or three players around the ball, there often appears confusion as to which of our players will go for the ball. They’ll all hesitate, and an opposition player just goes straight for the ball and clears the ball from congestion.


Secondly, I’ve noticed Neale more often standing outside of a stoppage, in a position to either swoop on a ball that spills from the stoppage, or be the first receiver from a ball handballed out of the stoppage, to then clear the ball from the area.

However, from the eye test, we don’t appear to be breaking even at such stoppages, and it’s harder to identify which of our mids is supposed to be trying to win the ball at the stoppage.

Neale touched on this in a post game interview. I took his point as being that the mids were concentrating too much on their matchups ie. the defensive jobs they had. Once Fagan dropped tags the mids started attacking the ball more. Doesn't help when we're are not clean in tight like last night.

However I agree it has been noticeable in other games this year and at those times I thought Rayner, Bailey and others were deferring too much to the senior mids. We look much better with Berry and sometimes Rayner are smashing into stoppages.

Also the players standing around in a triangle or square is a tactic developed in response to the new holding the ball interpretations that places the onus on the player with the ball to force the ball loose or get pinged.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Neale touched on this in a post game interview. I took his point as being that the mids were concentrating too much on their matchups ie. the defensive jobs they had. Once Fagan dropped tags the mids started attacking the ball more. Doesn't help when we're are not clean in tight like last night.

However I agree it has been noticeable in other games this year and at those times I thought Rayner, Bailey and others were deferring too much to the senior mids. We look much better with Berry and sometimes Rayner are smashing into stoppages.

Also the players standing around in a triangle or square is a tactic developed in response to the new holding the ball interpretations that places the onus on the player with the ball to force the ball loose or get pinged.

In the first half Neale was getting dominated by Rivers and Sparrow at clearances because he was just sitting on his arse while his opponent attacked the footy. It was very strange and unlike him

 

[3KZ is Football]

I come here to say this. Watching the game back he was pivotal so many times.

He has seemed to put his head down and bum up this season. Any niggles or little melees he doesn't want a bar of. Just jogs back to position and minds his own business.

Zorko’s field kicking is elite. He is opening sides up in exactly the same way Daniel Rich did at his best off the half back line.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

In the first half Neale was getting dominated by Rivers and Sparrow at clearances because he was just sitting on his arse while his opponent attacked the footy. It was very strange and unlike him

Yes agree. He has been sitting back this year early in games then working into them. It doesn't look good when more than just Neale is doing it. Clugga is also doing it. Neale is pacing himself maybe?

 

[werdna78]

Yeah I've been thinking someone like an Adam Saad that can apply that sort of pressure onto an opposition speedster..

Speaking of which, massive props to Charlie for getting down back & getting to the drop of the ball for that final Demons fwd entry!

Daniher and Cameron often bob up in defence. Good to see them down there helping out, often when we need it the most.

 

[Brett C]

Yeah I've been thinking someone like an Adam Saad that can apply that sort of pressure onto an opposition speedster..

Speaking of which, massive props to Charlie for getting down back & getting to the drop of the ball for that final Demons fwd entry!

Saad isn’t that great a defender and isn’t a high pressure type.

Answerth would be perfect but has horrible disposal

 

[Sproj]

In terms of McKenna, given Answerth is out for 5 weeks I think, no need to drop him for anyone. Our defense is like 3rd or 4th in the comp, so something is working well so until Answerth is good to go, probably no need to look at messing with it.

We are definitely in the window and last night I reckon might be the final piece of the puzzle we've been looking for. We've got WAshcroft back and he will only get better, the kids all stood up when it counted and we ran down Melbourne who for a long time now have been doing exactly that to us.

I'm telling you, this has 2001 written all over it.

 

[Elixuh]

I'm telling you, this has 2001 written all over it.

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

Joyce did not look out of place. Well done.

He hardly won a 1 on 1 and butchered disposals. Next.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

He hardly won a 1 on 1 and butchered disposals. Next.

Who's next?

 

[troppo]

I am hoping that Hugh’s match winning goal will be the turning point for his goal kicking. He is one of, if not the best field kick in our team so obviously his poor shots on goal are from a lack of confidence. To kick that goal at that time should make him believe he can do it anytime. I am looking forward to the next 7 seasons

 

[Section 5]

Gawn v Big O. I have a different view than a lot of posters.

Watching live i did not think Gawn was the overwhelming ruck of the two but won the battle.
So, i have gone to the stats below to see how far off i may have been.

Viewing live (TV) i thought they negated each other in a lot of arears. Oscar tries his guts out and that's all we needed.
In my opinion Gawn won the battle but not by a big margin as Gawn can be a very dominating ruck.
Over the last few years Gawn has lost that dominance around the ground (possessions) but is still a great tap Ruckman.

Stat	Gawn	Big O
Hit outs	41	32
Hit outs to Advantage	11	4
Disposals	9	8
Marks	2	2
Contested Marks	1	2
Centre Clearances	0	0
Stoppage Clearances	1	3
Total Clearances	1	3
Tackles	2	4
Marks Inside 50	0	1
1%	4	5
Score involvements	7	4
Goal assists	0	0
Meters Gained	103	121
TOG	86%	81%

 

[Pacman82]

Saad isn’t that great a defender and isn’t a high pressure type.

Answerth would be perfect but has horrible disposal

I beg to differ, clearly Starce isn't suited to these sorts of match up's. I'm sure I've seen Saad trouble the likes of C.Cameron numerous times in the past.

 

[dlanod]

Harry Arnold, for one.

He's injured, and has basically been injured since Sydney recruited him (and he was injured when we took Joyce over him in the SSP too from memory). At least Joyce is able to get on the field.

 

[p4p1]

Daniher and Cameron often bob up in defence. Good to see them down there helping out, often when we need it the most.

There was a passage of play in the last where Joe busted his gut to chase down the wing, Melbourne still won the ball but the centring kick went straight to Hippy in the D50. Loved seeing that.

 

[Sanchez365]

Gawn v Big O. I have a different view than a lot of posters.

Watching live i did not think Gawn was the overwhelming ruck of the two but won the battle.
So, i have gone to the stats below to see how far off i may have been.

Viewing live (TV) i thought they negated each other in a lot of arears. Oscar tries his guts out and that's all we needed.
In my opinion Gawn won the battle but not by a big margin as Gawn can be a very dominating ruck.
Over the last few years Gawn has lost that dominance around the ground (possessions) but is still a great tap Ruckman.

Stat	Gawn	Big O
Hit outs	41	32
Hit outs to Advantage	11	4
Disposals	9	8
Marks	2	2
Contested Marks	1	2
Centre Clearances	0	0
Stoppage Clearances	1	3
Total Clearances	1	3
Tackles	2	4
Marks Inside 50	0	1
1%	4	5
Score involvements	7	4
Goal assists	0	0
Meters Gained	103	121
TOG	86%	81%

Where did you get the hit outs to advantage stats?

It's fine to say our mids overall got towelled up, but that was imo mostly due to Gawns taps more then anything. Especially in the center bounces where Big O is at his worst. They were able to get on the move and be aggressive because they knew Oscar wasn't winning shit.

11-4 HOA and 14-7 center clearances going the dees way.

 

[martinson]

Yes agree. He has been sitting back this year early in games then working into them. It doesn't look good when more than just Neale is doing it. Clugga is also doing it. Neale is pacing himself maybe?

Not a hundred percent as yet.

 

[Section 5]

Where did you get the hit outs to advantage stats?

It's fine to say our mids overall got towelled up, but that was imo mostly due to Gawns taps more then anything. Especially in the center bounces where Big O is at his worst. They were able to get on the move and be aggressive because they knew Oscar wasn't winning shit.

11-4 HOA and 14-7 center clearances going the dees way.

I find using the foxfooty 1st link below the easiest for that stat for me.
Then click on the game you want eg Lions v Dees. They are across the top of the page
That takes you to game summary (2nd link below)
Scroll down to the drop-down menu.
There are 20 stats listed. Click/tap the + sign to see top players
They usually only mention the best 3 players from each team
Look for "Most Hit Outs To Advantage".

The thing is they don't mention all players that rucked for the day.
For this game they mentioned the 4 main rucks in hit outs, but only 2 for HTA

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Brisbane Lions vs Melbourne Demons - AFL Round 16, 2024

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