Autopsy Round 16, 2024: St.Kilda v Port Adelaide

[Saint Shags]

Lyon danced around the question about this in the presser, but guaranteed he was pissed. Don't think we see Higgo trying another one for a while.

It's all confidence for Higgins. If he gets the first then he'll slot them from anywhere.

 

[Yabadoo22]

I've seen enough already of paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

. He isn't taking us anywhere. Rather pump games into Garcia. I gave up on the hope of Hunter being any good a couple years ago now. We literally only have Wilkie, Marshall and Sinclair who we can regularly count on at this stage, battle and NAS not far off it.

 

[denisp]

I've always been a HUGE Max fan(I still reminisce about his game in Perth in 2021) but he's really testing everyone's patience......especially mine !!!!!

Just for the record.....he was walking with a bit of a limp after training last Friday.

It was quite noticeable.

That sounds right - why would you bother playing him? Just have Membrey and Sharman down forward let him have his knee cleanup and back in last couple of games

 

[denisp]

It's all confidence for Higgins. If he gets the first then he'll slot them from anywhere.

Took him a while to get a touch today

 

[Saint Watto]

Wow, the melts in here!

Maybe it's easier from a distance, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as a lot of you are making out. Long decades of PTSD flaring up I'd say. Completely understandable. But that's another tight loss in a game we were in all night, against a bogey team now 2 points adrift of the top 4. With a midfield that couldn't get near it for 75% of the night. Dominated them in the last quarter, toss of the coin we win it.

Take a breath, count to 10....

Completely share the frustration with King. He needs to be played in different roles ASAP to see if it works. On consideration, not sure there's a lot of point sending him to Sandy, for the Club or for Max himself. See if another role works for the remainder of the season, if it doesn't, well... plenty of other teams looking for a key forward.

Great post there SS.

It was a tough day at the office......a tough watch at times and incredibly frustrating but we have to somehow hang in there supporting this mob.

We really don't have a choice...well....we do.....but you get my drift.

 

[Teflon]

NAS will never be a star until he stops shanking kicks into the forward line or taking shots at goal that always miss

Rubbish

 

[Teflon]

Hawks have been patient and drafted solid skilled midfielders.

As opposed to Saints fans wanting burn the joint down 1.5 years into new coaching and footy departments tenure??
Agree

 

[Verdun66]

Interesting presser from Ross. Wouldn’t bag Max. Offered some excuse for his difficulties. Laughed (sort of) about Higgins. Said a few carried injuries in….Dow with an ankle.

Seemed frustrated. But kind of accepting on the surface. But if I didn’t know better he is riding the season out as cheerfully as he can with a view to getting better next year. Combination of further development, judicious trading and high draft picks.

Only way I can look at it and keep my sanity. And I agree to a point with him that we weren’t as bad as some are making out. This place is depressing at times.

 

[topbillings]

David King suggested on First Crack that we trade Max at the end of the year. Montagna basically said that wouldn't be happening.

I'm going to preface this by saying I'm a big fan of Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

and it hurts me to see him playing this way, so far away from his best. If I was St Kilda, I would give Max one more year and throw everything at it. Hire someone just for him - whether it's Lloyd, Dunstall etc.

We've all seen what Max can do. How talented he is. I don't know why he's playing this way - whether he's injured, whether it's mental, whether he's not fit enough. But we've all seen what he's capable of. It's not an if. This isn't Paddy McCartin. He can play the way we all want him to. We've seen it. The question is how you build back his confidence and get him back there.

One thing that people aren't factoring in is that trading King would be a massive blow to the morale of the club and the supporters. Yet another failed high draft pick (after Billings and McCartin), gone from the club, with no success to show for it. With our current win/loss record, growing supporter resentment against Ross, rumors of other player potentially wanting to leave, our unattractive game style - I can't imagine how deflating losing Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

would be or what it would do to the morale of the supporter base.

Give him one more year. One year where the club gets someone to work with him exclusively, one-on-one with him. And if he doesn't improve, then look at moving him on.

They need to do something for him, because stubbornly persisting like the "everything is fine" meme isn't working. And the media noise is only going to get louder with every passing week.

 

[Teflon]

Wow, the melts in here!

Maybe it's easier from a distance, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as a lot of you are making out. Long decades of PTSD flaring up I'd say. Completely understandable. But that's another tight loss in a game we were in all night, against a bogey team now 2 points adrift of the top 4. With a midfield that couldn't get near it for 75% of the night. Dominated them in the last quarter, toss of the coin we win it.

Take a breath, count to 10....

Completely share the frustration with King. He needs to be played in different roles ASAP to see if it works. On consideration, not sure there's a lot of point sending him to Sandy, for the Club or for Max himself. See if another role works for the remainder of the season, if it doesn't, well... plenty of other teams looking for a key forward.

At last sense!
The Chicken Little brigade alive n well !!
We were smashed out of the middle all day - we are effectively playing with THE worst midfield in the comp
Lost by 2 points
Our defence is rock solid
HB line is elite - NAS/Sincs both hard to stop at once
Marshall forward worked
Yes we need to free King up, get him up the ground but time to experiment now
I’d give Wilson a spell - Hastie/Garcia/Pou another taste
Like to see Heath this year too

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

I've seen enough already of paddy Dow. He isn't taking us anywhere. Rather pump games into Garcia. I gave up on the hope of Hunter being any good a couple years ago now. We literally only have Wilkie, Marshall and Sinclair who we can regularly count on at this stage, battle and NAS not far off it.

Dow and Clark will be pretty good if they can get there bodies right but that's questionable. This is same issue with a few of our players.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Gee Dow has been a bit of a disappointment this year. I know he had an injury interrupted preseason, but seven possessions playing as a mid? Cmon.

King might be like Billings unfortunately. Showed a lot of promise, but never quite got there in the end. Hopefully I’m wrong, but I’m concerned.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

We know he has the talent ... we have all seen it ... drooled over it .... labelled him Winx FFS

It's a very hard watch at the moment but Max has to work through it and dig deep and put in the hard yards ... and it starts on the training track

He has probably coasted a bit up to now and a few injuries haven't helped either has our midfield dropping away but teams are putting more work into him as they know if he gets off the leash then it's likely game over

So it's up to Max now .... he is at the crossroads and needs to take the next step ..... he needs a huge pre-season ..... time is ticking

 

[Verdun66]

David King suggested on First Crack that we trade Max at the end of the year. Montagna basically said that wouldn't be happening.

I'm going to preface this by saying I'm a big fan of Max King and it hurts me to see him playing this way, so far away from his best. If I was St Kilda, I would give Max one more year and throw everything at it. Hire someone just for him - whether it's Lloyd, Dunstall etc.

We've all seen what Max can do. How talented he is. I don't know why he's playing this way - whether he's injured, whether it's mental, whether he's not fit enough. But we've all seen what he's capable of. It's not an if. This isn't Paddy McCartin. He can play the way we all want him to. We've seen it. The question is how you build back his confidence and get him back there.

One thing that people aren't factoring in is that trading King would be a massive blow to the morale of the club and the supporters. Yet another failed high draft pick (after Billings and McCartin), gone from the club, with no success to show for it. With our current win/loss record, growing supporter resentment against Ross, rumors of other player potentially wanting to leave, our unattractive game style - I can't imagine how deflating losing Max King would be or what it would do to the morale of the supporter base.

Give him one more year. One year where the club gets someone to work with him exclusively, one-on-one with him. And if he doesn't improve, then look at moving him on.

They need to do something for him, because stubbornly persisting like the "everything is fine" meme isn't working. And the media noise is only going to get louder with every passing week.

It’s possible his two shoulder reconstructions have sapped his confidence. Knee troubles as well. All impacting his strength and fitness. I agree that he can play to a high level. Get him really fit in the off season and hopefully he gets a run at it. Or pull him out early this year and if needed get any necessary surgery.

 

[Verdun66]

As I said a few posts ago. Dow went in with ankle trouble. According to RL. Perhaps he shouldn’t have played. Was his call and while gallant it didn’t help us. He was very underwhelming. Reckon he will be struggling next week.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Clark, Dow & Windhager in the midfield, all quiet today & only Windy with any real upside. Yep, seriously need gun mids in the draft & possibly in the trade period.

Clark makes Seb Ross look like a live wire.

 

[The Cobra]

Interesting presser from Ross. Wouldn’t bag Max. Offered some excuse for his difficulties. Laughed (sort of) about Higgins. Said a few carried injuries in….Dow with an ankle.

Seemed frustrated. But kind of accepting on the surface. But if I didn’t know better he is riding the season out as cheerfully as he can with a view to getting better next year. Combination of further development, judicious trading and high draft picks.

Only way I can look at it and keep my sanity. And I agree to a point with him that we weren’t as bad as some are making out. This place is depressing at times.

Thanks - and the coaches & Max are clearly worried about playing him in the ruck after 2 shoulder reconstructions ( notwithstanding they tried today). It’s probably a risk for him and a mental challenge. Never experienced it fortunately but I understand shoulder reconstructions are damn painful and very challenging rehab wise.

 

[edgie]

Don't worry mate, there is always Acca Dacca, they never let you down, Port should play one of their songs instead of INXS.

I recommend this song.

Unfortunately I think INXS best described the shitty situation at Port better. We just use the wrong song.





Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

David King suggested on First Crack that we trade Max at the end of the year. Montagna basically said that wouldn't be happening.

I'm going to preface this by saying I'm a big fan of Max King and it hurts me to see him playing this way, so far away from his best. If I was St Kilda, I would give Max one more year and throw everything at it. Hire someone just for him - whether it's Lloyd, Dunstall etc.

We've all seen what Max can do. How talented he is. I don't know why he's playing this way - whether he's injured, whether it's mental, whether he's not fit enough. But we've all seen what he's capable of. It's not an if. This isn't Paddy McCartin. He can play the way we all want him to. We've seen it. The question is how you build back his confidence and get him back there.

One thing that people aren't factoring in is that trading King would be a massive blow to the morale of the club and the supporters. Yet another failed high draft pick (after Billings and McCartin), gone from the club, with no success to show for it. With our current win/loss record, growing supporter resentment against Ross, rumors of other player potentially wanting to leave, our unattractive game style - I can't imagine how deflating losing Max King would be or what it would do to the morale of the supporter base.

Give him one more year. One year where the club gets someone to work with him exclusively, one-on-one with him. And if he doesn't improve, then look at moving him on.

They need to do something for him, because stubbornly persisting like the "everything is fine" meme isn't working. And the media noise is only going to get louder with every passing week.

I'm not sure if King is a coaching issue. It looks more like an injury or confidence in body issue. He's not leading hard, can't seperate from opposition and doesn't leap into packs.
IMO trying him in different positions will be a bigger liability. You can coach him all you want but you can't make him go out give ultimate effort which is what we need. Can drop him but that doesn't look on the coaching radar.
He needs to climb out of this hole himself. Become the leader this team needs him to be.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Dow and Clark will be pretty good if they can get there bodies right but that's questionable. This is same issue with a few of our players.

Nice statement , totally lacking in evidence.
When has Clark been less fit?

Dow has no cardiovascular fitness, but i'm not seeing him do great stuff even at the start of the game.
He was a dud at Carlton and we bought the dud.
SOS should be sacked for knowing what he was and still getting him.

 

[topbillings]

We know he has the talent ... we have all seen it ... drooled over it .... labelled him Winx FFS

That's why some of these posts are getting a bit riddiculous. A lot of people seem to have collective amnesia about what Max King has been able to produce in the past, particularly in 2022 (before the shoulder injuries).

He needs a full pre-season and someone working with him who isn't a "2007-2011 St Kilda nepo hire". No offence to Harvs, but I have my doubts he's the best person to coach a key forward through a form slump. Get someone from the outside to work with him on his craft. Someone who understands what he might be going through. Give him whatever he needs. He's the future and is capable of great things.

FFS, saying he's "never going to be that player" is riddiculous when he's already shown it.

 

[Sainter93]

It’s like King is playing as the small forward and Higgins is playing as the lead up key forward.. I just don’t understand it

How many times today was King sitting behind his man in the pocket and not leading up at the footy? How many times did Higgins charge out from the goal square on the lead?

 

[Verdun66]

Thanks - and the coaches & Max are clearly worried about playing him in the ruck after 2 shoulder reconstructions ( notwithstanding they tried today). It’s probably a risk for him and a mental challenge. Never experienced it fortunately but I understand shoulder reconstructions are damn painful and very challenging rehab wise.

Thanks for the reply. I reckon he is fighting mental demons and his rehab has him at least playing but not strong enough. Maybe we should be praising him for playing at all. If that is true then I would pull him out and try to get him right for next year. Not doing anyone much good the way it is.

 

[bergholt]

At last sense!
The Chicken Little brigade alive n well !!
We were smashed out of the middle all day - we are effectively playing with THE worst midfield in the comp
Lost by 2 points
Our defence is rock solid
HB line is elite - NAS/Sincs both hard to stop at once
Marshall forward worked
Yes we need to free King up, get him up the ground but time to experiment now
I’d give Wilson a spell - Hastie/Garcia/Pou another taste
Like to see Heath this year too

Tend to agree with all this.

I didn't find that game too hard to watch, this season's over already so it's about development.

Given our midfield was playing against a very dynamic group with a fair bit of grunt, we would have been doing well to pinch the game.

Great to see King in the ruck if only briefly, that has to be his future imo - if he's forward/ruck then our whole team balance is much much better.

Nas is such a gun, my favourite player by far right now.

Pou banging on the door at Sandy, like what it's doing for his development, I'm inclined to give him another week and bring Seb in for the Swannies thought.

Hammer looks a serious chance to be a very solid defender, could be Dougal on steroids.

Wouldn't mind Mitch having a run at Sandy, he's got a bunch more levels in him.

I think both Clark and Dow will be better if they can just play out the season and have a strong pre season, probably Henry too. The injuries haven't done any of them any favours.

 

[gubby88]

Nice statement , totally lacking in evidence.
When has Clark been less fit?

Dow has no cardiovascular fitness, but i'm not seeing him do great stuff even at the start of the game.
He was a dud at Carlton and we bought the dud.
SOS should be sacked for knowing what he was and still getting him.

we got him as midfield depth for a player who wanted a fresh start. arguably hes better then a 4th round pick

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