Autopsy Round 16, 2024: St.Kilda v Port Adelaide

[Desperate saint]

Hasn’t he already done that? In the last quarter?
Max looked better for a few minutes then, albeit did that stupid late hit.

Max has no full forward craft. Higgins is twice the full forward he is, twice the smarts. I want King to succeed as well, but his work rate is so average. Move and create space, don’t point over your head 50m from the ball.

Max needs to head to the gym weights room-put on 5-8 kg and build his core strength especially if he is going to ruck-has very little core strength

 

[gringo2011]

Not really knowing much about him then but the general commentary if I remember correctly on here () was lots of spud talk. Gee whizz there were a few Ryder type hitouts down butters and horny throats.

Did I just say that out loud?

Played for the Dogs in the VFL and looked great. Dominated the VFL finals too. His hit-outs had hurt factor and was pretty regular goal kicker.

- Jordon Sweet

vfl.aflmstats.com

 

[gringo2011]

I think he was another one we chased but he signed with Port because he thought he was a better chance of getting a regular game there rather than running around at Sandy waiting for Marshall to get injured.

Port then did the dirty on him and signed Ivan Soldo as well.

Wasn't perfect on Sunday but I do prefer the flexibility we get from being able to use Marshall in different ways.

Might be time for Max Heath to get a run.

Marshall struggled with Ryder in the side but looks better with Campbell. I guess he'd only played 33 games when Ryder arrived so was a very inexperienced player still.

 

[Saintbloke]

Hopefully Ross listens to Leigh Matthews advice and trials Max in the ruck.

Trading him is crazy talk, we should steal his pet dog and hold it hostage first to see if that motivates him.

Lyon needs a mentor

 

[gringo2011]

Max needs to head to the gym weights room-put on 5-8 kg and build his core strength especially if he is going to ruck-has very little core strength

Someone suggested that we want to keep him lithe. In his junior career he probably kicked more gals from snaps and roving than from marks. He was almost like a 200cm Milney.


I think we need a better development coach and probably an individual skills/ strategy coach for him. His forward craft isn't maximising his on field performance. Maybe we don't need him bigger, we need him out in space where he doesn't camp under balls. It's not doing him or us any favours.

See if his mate Matty Lloyd wants to waste a day a week or get someone like Loewe or even get Paul Hudson back in.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Gotta love this forum.

“Ross is too old; his ideas are out of date. We need to get a fresh, young coach with modern ideas”

Nek Minnet

“Hey, let’s listen to this bloke and adopt his ideas”

 

[Teflon]

What tall forwards? The only tall forwards other then King that was on the list when Lyon came in was Allison and Hayes. Allison doesnt have what it takes at AFL and Hayes' knee is basically ****ed from the ACL he sustained in 2022 before Lyon.

Keeler and Caminiti were both 2022 draft/2023 pre-season so have only been under Lyon and Owens breakout year was specifically under Lyon.

The only forward who has gone "backwards" so to say is Membrey and that may just be a case of his body just starting to become tired and removing his best weapons.

Yep and Nick Riewoldt was shyte under Lyon
I found some off milk in the fridge yesterday….suspect Lyon drove past my house…prick

 

[bergholt]

Hopefully Ross listens to Leigh Matthews advice and trials Max in the ruck.

RTB said in the post-game press conference that they had Max in the ruck in the last quarter and that it was a step forward for him.

 

[Cairnsman]

RTB said in the post-game press conference that they had Max in the ruck in the last quarter and that it was a step forward for him.

I missed both of those events, that is the presser and watching Max in the last quarter. The positive is Ross confirmed Max was on the field of play in the last.

 

[Cairnsman]

Lyon needs a mentor

Lyon needs talented players

 

[austinnn]

Someone suggested that we want to keep him lithe. In his junior career he probably kicked more gals from snaps and roving than from marks. He was almost like a 200cm Milney.


I think we need a better development coach and probably an individual skills/ strategy coach for him. His forward craft isn't maximising his on field performance. Maybe we don't need him bigger, we need him out in space where he doesn't camp under balls. It's not doing him or us any favours.

See if his mate Matty Lloyd wants to waste a day a week or get someone like Loewe or even get Paul Hudson back in.

Christ, only St Kilda could have a 202cm crumbing forward pocket and a 177cm marking forward

Seriously though I agree with your ideas, though I'm deeply suspicious of Matthew Lloyd. Stewie would be ideal really but he was a very different player.

 

[Saintbloke]

Gotta love this forum.

“Ross is too old; his ideas are out of date. We need to get a fresh, young coach with modern ideas”

Nek Minnet

“Hey, let’s listen to this bloke and adopt his ideas”

Matthews..Premiership player, premiership coach. Lyon....

 

[gringo2011]

Christ, only St Kilda could have a 202cm crumbing forward pocket and a 177cm marking forward

Seriously though I agree with your ideas, though I'm deeply suspicious of Matthew Lloyd. Stewie would be ideal really but he was a very different player.

Anyone that isn't sure how important line coaches and development staff are should listen to some of the player interviews. I heard Alex Neale-Bullen a while back and he was talking about how good Adam Yze was as an assistant. He credits him taking him aside with a plan to improve his weaknesses and how to maximise his strengths. Said he would have potentially fallen out of the system without that intervention.

When they brought in the soft cap I remember someone saying that Geelong had a development or line coach per 3 players where clubs like St Kilda had 3 or 4 staff for the whole 45 on the list or what ever it was that year.

One of the kid's footy coaches was a involved in the Bulldogs and said that when they got Bevo he had a lot of ex players and volunteers come in to help out with that stuff. I can remember him talking about how Bevo was a massive fan of skills coaching and used a lot of TAC squad drills that did things like rope off a small area of ground with every player in it and use handballs only to cut through traffic. He said the difference from the previous set up was day and night.

We were terrible at drafting and didn't bring in high end talent but we also let a whole lot of guys that could have had less exciting but very solid careers by not maximising the potential we did have. We have a tendency to move on players that have failed to become stars after a few average years.

Guys like Ben Long kicked 14 goals in 16 games in his third year so we move him around and drop him in and out of the side before letting him walk. He looks like the player we hoped he'd become with a coach that backs him and plays him to his strengths. Acres had a similar trajectory.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Matthews..Premiership player, premiership coach. Lyon....

The argument was about age and outdated coaching methods and game plans.

Matthews..Premiership player, 40 years ago, premiership coach 20 years ago.

Anyhoo…

 

[The Punter]

Lyon needs talented players

He has them already - every AFL player is talented.

He needs to get them to fulfil their talent.

 

[bergholt]

Matthews..Premiership player, premiership coach.

Matthews is almost as old as Biden, not sure he’s the expert he once was.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

We were terrible at drafting and didn't bring in high end talent but we also let a whole lot of guys that could have had less exciting but very solid careers by not maximising the potential we did have. We have a tendency to move on players that have failed to become stars after a few average years.

Guys like Ben Long kicked 14 goals in 16 games in his third year so we move him around and drop him in and out of the side before letting him walk. He looks like the player we hoped he'd become with a coach that backs him and plays him to his strengths. Acres had a similar trajectory.

 

[Cairnsman]

He has them already - every AFL player is talented.

He needs to get them to fulfil their talent.

Oh really ?

So what’s been our excuse for the past 150 years…just crappy coaches?

You make it sound like recruitment of talent is pretty straight forward huh and that if a player doesn’t make the grade it’s on everyone else.

 

[The Punter]

Oh really ?

So what’s been our excuse for the past 150 years…just crappy coaches?

You make it sound like recruitment of talent is pretty straight forward huh and that if a player doesn’t make the grade it’s on everyone else.

Actually, it's everyone else making it sound like recruitment of talent is straight forward. "Go to the draft with early picks".

Last year we had three All-Australian squad players. Every single one of them was selected in the rookie draft.

This isn't a computer game where all players are an overall rating. Do all the players Geelong and Sydney draft just come as the finished product?

Every player who ends up on an AFL list has talent. I've lost count of how many players we have drafted with "elite kick" in their draft profile who after a few years turn into Wayne Thornborrow.

We've had many reasons over 150 years for not being successful, but since 2010 clearly one of them has been "unable to satisfactorily develop talent into required performance".

Talent is a promise. Performance is the objective. I don't want any more promises, I want performance.

 

[Diehard Saint]

FFS, the kid can’t take a trick…

“”St Kilda spearhead Max King

12

Max King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

is set for a stint on the sidelines after seriously injuring his left knee in the loss to Port Adelaide.


The Herald Sun can reveal King, 23, hurt his posterior cruciate ligament in the third quarter on Sunday but played on with the injury in the second half in an effort to help the Saints triumph.


King, who has attracted heavy criticism for his performance in the wake of the loss, even moved into the ruck with the injury late in the game.


The Saints will continue to assess the injury in coming days in consultation with specialists before determining a course of action and recovery timeframe.


But there are fears the knee injury is serious after the club informed St Kilda players on Wednesday morning.”

 

[sauce_head]

FFS, the kid can’t take a trick…

“”St Kilda spearhead Max King is set for a stint on the sidelines after seriously injuring his left knee in the loss to Port Adelaide.


The Herald Sun can reveal King, 23, hurt his posterior cruciate ligament in the third quarter on Sunday but played on with the injury in the second half in an effort to help the Saints triumph.


King, who has attracted heavy criticism for his performance in the wake of the loss, even moved into the ruck with the injury late in the game.


The Saints will continue to assess the injury in coming days in consultation with specialists before determining a course of action and recovery timeframe.


But there are fears the knee injury is serious after the club informed St Kilda players on Wednesday morning.”

Ironic that he played his best periods of the game with a season ending knee injury.

Shame he won’t be playing this week as heading ti the game and live screaming out MAXY!!!!

Might help our performance though…

Hope he recovers swiftly and fully.

 

[Train12]

Poor form from all supporters crucifying Max over the past few days.

When he returns and performs it will be these same supporters that say they have been his biggest supporter all along.

I’m new to this board and some of the melts over the last few weeks are embarrassing.

Let’s see how life is without Max the remainder of the season for all those ‘supporters’ wanting him traded.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

So he injured his PCL and that was the time we decided to throw him in the ruck for the first time?
wtf are we doing

 

[Saintbloke]

He has them already - every AFL player is talented.

He needs to get them to fulfil their talent.

Exactly

 

[Diehard Saint]

Ironic that he played his best periods of the game with a season ending knee injury.

Shame he won’t be playing this week as heading ti the game and live screaming out MAXY!!!!

Might help our performance though…

Hope he recovers swiftly and fully.

He should take the rest of the season. No point in rushing back. Get fit and strengthen his body. Come back fresh for pre-season.

In the meantime, give his role to Sharman and let him settle there. These days even Cairnsman will agree