Review Round 16 = Gold Coast 101-90 Collingwood

[sam_e]

The re-writing of Cox as a star difference maker is interesting. I must have been watching a different player earlier this year.

I won’t argue that he may have been better in the centre bounces against Witts when it was his rotation, however, that was likely to be only minimal minutes like Kreuger had as Cameron has had a great year and is a top 4 ruck in the comp this year.

That means that Cox would have played forward most of the game and the way it was played with our lack of territory I’m sure he would have been invisible and a liability for defensive pressure.

Cameron, undeniably, has had a great year. But, it's also true that Cameron usually struggles (gets monstered) by the taller /more physical rucks (eg. Witts) in the comp. In those circumstances, when both rucks are fit /playing, it makes sense for Cox to spend more time as the #1 ruck, particularly at CB.

 

[Jen2310]

Hitouts were pretty even
32 v 28

 

[Kirby]

Cameron, undeniably, has had a great year. But, it's also true that Cameron usually struggles (gets monstered) by the taller /more physical rucks (eg. Witts) in the comp. In those circumstances, when both rucks are fit /playing, it makes sense for Cox to spend more time as the #1 ruck, particularly at CB.

I won't argue that Cox is not a better tap ruckman in the centre bounces against the monster ruckman. I accept that he is.

However, that is the only thing that he does better than Cameron. Cameron is better than Cox when the ball hits the deck after the tap, Cameron is at least the equal of Cox at around the ground ball ups, Cameron is far better than Cox at boundary umpire throw ins. Cameron is literally postcodes better than Cox at marking the football and having an influence around the ground.

Cox playing forward has been a liability for the past 2 seasons - he's ruck or bust pretty much.

So the issue is weighing up the benefit of Cox at centre bounces against what we then lose by having him in the ruck after the bounce/tap. That also has to be weighed up with him having to play minutes in the forward line where he has no impact (currently) when the second ruckman could be a forward whom can impact and make some difference i.e. Kreuger and/or McStay.

I favour playing the better forward and having Cameron doing most of the ruckwork.

 

[domus]

We lost to a team by 11 points who haven't lost at their home ground all year, with an elite midfield, fighting to play finals whilst we were coming off a bye. Majority of teams are sluggish after a bye, it's the norm.

Like I said, the over reactions to this one loss have been completely over the top.

Good summary.

 

[Roverjg]

there aren't many better starting midfields than Rowell, Miller and Anderson. They are all very very good players.

Absolutely... Its amazing they only come to play at home. They are abysmal away from home

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[Roverjg]

Hitouts were pretty even
32 v 28

Yeah they were. But have a look where Witts taps went and what they did with it. Then look where Cameron's went

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[domus]

Just watching the game again. My lord we can look so electric. We are just a joy to watch when we flick the switch.

On the negative side. I think Krueger's fumbling at ground level and above his head continues. Chest marking is his go. If he wants to win a place in our best 23 he just has to have clean hands.

Darcy looks lost. Even his kick ins make me nervous now.

Josh Daicos

7

Josh Daicos

Age

25

Ht

178cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

8.3

3star

HB

7.3

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.2

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.5

4star

CL

1.5

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.2

4star

did some inspirational things in that last term but gets overshadowed by his brilliant little brother.

We have been truly robbed of many more future wins by the loss of Nathan Murphy

28

Nathan Murphy

Age

24

Ht

192cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

3star

MG

176.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.5

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

4star

MG

176.5

3star

. It becomes more apparent by the week just how crucial he was to our back half's chemistry.

I wonder how he is coping mentally. It must be devastating to have to leave a game you love long before you are in your prime after fighting so hard to win a place in the team.

Life can be so brutal.

 

[Jen2310]

On Access All Areas, they talked about our backline. How we are a mess. So many of those players are so far below the 2023 version of themselves. They talked about the loss of Murphy is more apparant, especially for Moore and we haven't replaced him.
Defences win premierships. We were 2nd last year.
We are 12th this year.

 

[jmac70]

On Access All Areas, they talked about our backline. How we are a mess. So many of those players are so far below the 2023 version of themselves. They talked about the loss of Murphy is more apparant, especially for Moore and we haven't replaced him.
Defences win premierships. We were 2nd last year.
We are 12th this year.

I saw that too.
The 12th place stat is misleading. We have had poor defensive games against the Dogs, North and Gold Coast.

Obviously, the first three rounds were also poor.

I expect us to apply much greater pressure against Essendon, and to restrict them to a losing score. Do that and we are still in with a chance.

 

[Kirby]

Just watching the game again. My lord we can look so electric. We are just a joy to watch when we flick the switch.

On the negative side. I think Krueger's fumbling at ground level and above his head continues. Chest marking is his go. If he wants to win a place in our best 23 he just has to have clean hands.

Darcy looks lost. Even his kick ins make me nervous now.

Josh Daicos did some inspirational things in that last term but gets overshadowed by his brilliant little brother.

We have been truly robbed of many more future wins by the loss of Nathan Murphy. It becomes more apparent by the week just how crucial he was to our back half's chemistry.

I wonder how he is coping mentally. It must be devastating to have to leave a game you love long before you are in your prime after fighting so hard to win a place in the team.

Life can be so brutal.

There's no way I'm giving any weight to your appraisal of any player that you see as competing with Cox for a place in the side.

I didn't notice this fumbling you speak of. The major criticism of Kreuger was that he just didn't get to enough contests. This was not helped by us having minimal territory and him only having 67% game time.

 

[jmac70]

Just watching the game again. My lord we can look so electric. We are just a joy to watch when we flick the switch.

On the negative side. I think Krueger's fumbling at ground level and above his head continues. Chest marking is his go. If he wants to win a place in our best 23 he just has to have clean hands.

Darcy looks lost. Even his kick ins make me nervous now.

Josh Daicos did some inspirational things in that last term but gets overshadowed by his brilliant little brother.

We have been truly robbed of many more future wins by the loss of Nathan Murphy. It becomes more apparent by the week just how crucial he was to our back half's chemistry.

I wonder how he is coping mentally. It must be devastating to have to leave a game you love long before you are in your prime after fighting so hard to win a place in the team.

Life can be so brutal.

Murphy is a loss but his retirement is not going to cost “many more wins.”

He will be replaced.

 

[cakewalk_1]

Most teams seem to score with ease against Collingwood, they average 5-6 more against the pies. Recently Essendon kicked 9 goal for the entire game aganist Geelong. Against the pies on Anzac day they kicked 6 goals in the first against us. Freo, North, Suns, Port, GWS, Saints all scored easily against us.
We continue to struggle against any team that has a big key forward. EG, Larky has averaged 5 goals against us. Yet managed 0.2 against Melbourne. Curnow is another one that bags 5 goas against the pies, King (suns) got 4 and should have kicked 6.

 

[domus]

Murphy is a loss but his retirement is not going to cost “many more wins.”

He will be replaced.

Nick Daicos will be "replaced" one day too.

 

[jmac70]

Nick Daicos will be "replaced" one day too.

Nick is a generational champion.

Murphy was a foot soldier.

 

[domus]

There's no way I'm giving any weight to your appraisal of any player that you see as competing with Cox for a place in the side.

I didn't notice this fumbling you speak of. The major criticism of Kreuger was that he just didn't get to enough contests. This was not helped by us having minimal territory and him only having 67% game time.

I've commented on it on numerous occasions. He fumbled a soda of a ground ball in the middle of the ground at a crucial time in the last quarter and did the same with a simple overhead mark in the last term against North. He almost always drops overhead marks above his head. He'll often sit on an opponent's shoulder (he has a great leap) and gets both hands on it before dropping the pill. He takes most of his marks on his chest whether on the lead or flying in a pack.

Just because you don't notice something doesn't mean it didn't happen or hasn't happened on numerous occasions. It's a rather specific thing to make up for the sake of having a dig. I love Freddy. I love his exuberance and attack on the pill or player with the ball. I want him to succeed. Your theory that I'm attacking him because I see him as a threat to Coxy is absurd. I have already written my opinion of his ruck work. His ball handling has nothing to do with his ruckwork. It is a problem he needs to remedy.

 

[domus]

Nick is a generational champion.

Murphy was a foot soldier.

Nobody in our side has the capacity to play the way Murphy did. That is a big reason for our struggles and Moore's more specifically.

 

[jmac70]

Nobody in our side has the capacity to play the way Murphy did. That is a big reason for our struggles and Moore's more specifically.

Moore is our best defender by a mile. He will lift.

 

[domus]

Absolutely... Its amazing they only come to play at home. They are abysmal away from home

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It is genuinely pathetic given how stacked they are with top drawer talent. Hardwick's no fool. He jumped off the sinking ship at Tigerland and hopped onto the superior boat with a treasure trove of quality players.

 

[domus]

Moore is our best defender by a mile. He will lift.

When he is in form. He has been struggling all year. Larky made him look silly. Darcy just doesn't seem to be able to go one on one with the quality big boys. I think his form drop has affected all elements of his game. His judgement is off. He is a superb reader of the player when playing with confidence but lately he is being caught in no man's land and having no effect on the contest be it with his own opponent or when trying to cover for a teammate.

He can turn it around. I think Maynard is our best defender but due to the rarity of 200cm athletes Moore is harder to replace.

 

[domus]

I won't argue that Cox is not a better tap ruckman in the centre bounces against the monster ruckman. I accept that he is.

However, that is the only thing that he does better than Cameron. Cameron is better than Cox when the ball hits the deck after the tap, Cameron is at least the equal of Cox at around the ground ball ups, Cameron is far better than Cox at boundary umpire throw ins. Cameron is literally postcodes better than Cox at marking the football and having an influence around the ground.

Cox playing forward has been a liability for the past 2 seasons - he's ruck or bust pretty much.

So the issue is weighing up the benefit of Cox at centre bounces against what we then lose by having him in the ruck after the bounce/tap. That also has to be weighed up with him having to play minutes in the forward line where he has no impact (currently) when the second ruckman could be a forward whom can impact and make some difference i.e. Kreuger and/or McStay.

I favour playing the better forward and having Cameron doing most of the ruckwork.

The liability took the only contested mark (against the bloke regarded as the best key defender in the game by many) and kicked the only goal of the last term for Collingwood in the preliminary final last year which we won by a point. He kicked the sausage from 45 metres out under huge pressure and was outstanding in the ruck as well.

 

[domus]

Wouldn’t it be great to have a ruckman like Jarryd Witts … wait, what?!?

Oh, that’s alright, we ended up with Brodie Grundy instead. Great. Not great.

Never mind, we must have gotten something good for Witts … checks … picks 44 and 62. Damn!

Did we do anything useful with those picks? … checks … we got Josh Daicos, future Copeland winner, OK that’s decent.

But hang on, Josh was a father-son that nobody else wanted. We could have got him for one of TD’s half eaten packets of chicken Twisties. Damn.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing. He moved like a sloth on valium (and still does) and almost gave Bucks ulcers with some of his insipid efforts in aerial contests. If honest, nobody could say they saw Wittsy as a future club captain and champion ruckman. It's a credit to him. Grundy is starring with the league's top team so we certainly did okay hanging on to him for years, yet even Grundy was not capable of getting us over the line in the big one. We are doing okay. Coxy not only survived and outlasted two guns but he has a premiership medallion and they don't.

 

[Kirby]

I've commented on it on numerous occasions. He fumbled a soda of a ground ball in the middle of the ground at a crucial time in the last quarter and did the same with a simple overhead mark in the last term against North. He almost always drops overhead marks above his head. He'll often sit on an opponent's shoulder (he has a great leap) and gets both hands on it before dropping the pill. He takes most of his marks on his chest whether on the lead or flying in a pack.

Just because you don't notice something doesn't mean it didn't happen or hasn't happened on numerous occasions. It's a rather specific thing to make up for the sake of having a dig. I love Freddy. I love his exuberance and attack on the pill or player with the ball. I want him to succeed. Your theory that I'm attacking him because I see him as a threat to Coxy is absurd. I have already written my opinion of his ruck work. His ball handling has nothing to do with his ruckwork. It is a problem he needs to remedy.

Okey dokes.

So, he dropped one overhead mark in the last quarter 2 weeks ago against North, you give no examples from this game (because there are none), but you say "he almost always drops overhead marks above his head" and then conflate this with a ground ball fumble in this game.

I think you have an agenda.

 

[domus]

Okey dokes.

So, he dropped one overhead mark in the last quarter 2 weeks ago against North, you give no examples from this game (because there are none), but you say "he almost always drops overhead marks above his head" and then conflate this with a ground ball fumble in this game.

I think you have an agenda.

Yes, I did. He fumbled again at a crucial time in the last term of the Gold Coast game. Agenda? That's just silly. So-any person who criticizes a player has an agenda because this usually entails a request for him to be replaced by player X. Go on the Friday night clash with Essendon thread. It's filled with comments on players who should be dropped for perceived flaws and replaced by players they see as better options.

I didn't even suggest dropping or replacing Freddy. He just needs to work on that facet of his game. Relax. I don't have a say as to whether Coxy gets a gig when fit.

 

[Kirby]

The liability took the only contested mark (against the bloke regarded as the best key defender in the game by many) and kicked the only goal of the last term for Collingwood in the preliminary final last year which we won by a point. He kicked the sausage from 45 metres out under huge pressure and was outstanding in the ruck as well.

You've just cherry picked the one rare example (from last year no less) . It's not like he usually does this.

Anyway, you will see from my posts that I am talking about Cox's current form from this year where he has been largely ineffectual, particularly as a forward.

 

[domus]

You've just cherry picked the one rare example (from last year no less) . It's not like he usually does this.

Anyway, you will see from my posts that I am talking about Cox's current form from this year where he has been largely ineffectual, particularly as a forward.

That's fine. Coxy has been disappointing as a forward this year. But he has shown repeatedly that he can stand up when the heat is on in finals.