Review Round 17 = Collingwood 80-92 Essendon

[Pendles!]

The biggest problem with our list at both AFL and VFL level is our complete lack of depth in key position stocks.And to make matters worse we have no emerging young key position players at either level.This is something that Hine has never addressed in over a decade now and he needs to be called out on it,or replaced.Just look at that young Essendon player,Caddy,I think his name was.How exciting would it be if we had a young key forward like that emerging.But unfortunately we don’t have anyone on our list like that.

I agree it would be nice, but we have drafted KPP, they’ve mainly just not worked out.

McCarty and McMahon were both top 30 picks, Scharenberg never got fit. Ollie Henry was more of a 2nd or 3rd tall but has obviously left. What is Reef going to be? The killer was the Stephenson pick as we missed out on some quality, but he was easily best available at the time.

Trading 6(?) first rounders for Beams, Treloar and now Schultz, as well as the future first before Daicos’ draft has hampered our ability to take any actual quality at the top end of the draft.

 

[Mr Cannons]

That's exactly what you said.

“He isn't the sole reason we have lost games”

This is what I replied to asking if anyone has actually said this?
And then I said people expect more from a captain.

 

[Fruit]

The biggest problem with our list at both AFL and VFL level is our complete lack of depth in key position stocks.And to make matters worse we have no emerging young key position players at either level.This is something that Hine has never addressed in over a decade now and he needs to be called out on it,or replaced.Just look at that young Essendon player,Caddy,I think his name was.How exciting would it be if we had a young key forward like that emerging.But unfortunately we don’t have anyone on our list like that.

We did draft Ollie Henry, Ash Johnston (bust), Krueger (injured) to fill this spot. That’s probably reflective of not having early picks

 

[Big Bryza]

The thing that was evident to me on Fri night was our lack of intensity and pressure. It was as if we were coming off a big block of training. Oh wait, the boys were allowed to have a few days off post the GC game. I normally don't care about that stuff but for mine our heads weren't in the game, and without doubt our preparation (or lack thereof) was a huge factor in to our woeful performance. A 2 day preparation is flat out silly and borderline disrespectful to your opposition and that was reflected in the performances from both teams.

Even though we were 4 goals up deep in to the first quarter, it was a false reading on the game. We were fortunate to kick a few goals off the back of some Bombers errors and then Crispy had 90 seconds of footy that you'll never see again. We had 7 scoring shots from 8 inside 50's and there was no chance that sort of strike rate could continue. The Bombers adjusted their defensive structure and also started running the ball through us by hand, getting out the back multiple times from Q2 onwards.

I don't know if we should be grateful or worried that Sidey and Pendles (along with Naicos) kept us in the contest for a lot of the night. Sidey was great across half back but it's only a bandaid solution in the grand scheme of things. Noble should return this week to offer some drive. The worrying sign is the form of IQ. He looked absolutely lost on the wing. Didn't know where to position himself. At times tried to play as a loose man in defence to minimal effect, and never tried to push forward to hit the scoreboard. Could they try him as an inside mid to see if we can spark some life into his season? In reality, he almost needs some time in the 2's but that won't happen.

You could go on forever about this game but you just hope to see a response in effort and intensity against the Cats, in which we've become accustomed to under the Fly regime. The season is not all lost. It's the type of season where just when you think you've got a reading on a side, there's another twist in the tale. I wouldn't be surprised to see us come out and win the next 3 and it's game on again. However, since that solid performance against Melbourne we've looked very flat. Fri night against the Cats is massive. A loss means top 4 is all but gone, and top 8 is in massive doubt. They've found form again but they're always a side we play well against. You just want the boys to bring the heat for 4 quarters.

 

[pienut]

Need Wrighty back as the team looks like needing a renovation sooner rather than later.

Midfield is shallow, only really two runners in Daicos and Crisp. After that it’s looking extremely poor.

Backline looks very poor also, most players down and a few aren’t up to it.

The forward line hard to judge as every week 2-3 of the em get injured.

Wouldn’t back us to beat many teams in the comp on current form. The North game was the warning sign and it’s gotten worse. Just beaten for numbers to the ball and also for pressure too, and then our defending we guard space and make it too easy for the opposition.

Make the hard calls now rather than kid ourselves like Geelong did this year.

This is the first post that thinks about analysing the team. We would not have won in 2010 without Ball or last year without Mitchell. We are not a clearance team so need some who can do battle there. Nick and JDG and Crisp can power out if they get it but if it goes elsewhere they are not in a position to chase. Slow old players like Sidey and Pendles and slow young players like Josh can’t lay a finger on Merret. Moore is exposed without Murphy and is a Brownlow ruck rover like his dad who we need as KPD. He has great athleticism as an interceptor but not the positional sense of Stewart, McGovern or Sicily. He can’t dominate one on one like Weitering or Andrews. Q and Hill are having bad seasons. We need one of them to become wingmen to generate speed. Markov has lost confidence. Injury has destroyed our forward line. When we break records with pressure we look great but if the first player is not immediately under pressure, good teams chain handball into open quickly and then run in numbers or chip kick depending on game plan and play checkers through our zone which doesn’t understand that positioning is different when opposition kicker is not under pressure. In that case you must tighten up. Like the Doggies flag we won with a good system, a bit of luck, a pretty good team with too many aging stars, weaknesses in key positions and only one champion junior. Our 2010 team was miles better as was 1990. We now have to replace Pendles, Howe, Sidey, Mitchell, Cox, Elliot and Checkers in the next three years and we won’t win premierships with Fin McRae et al. Some of these kids might make Lipinski standard but you need 9 or so stars and no duds and luck to win a flag. But please stop saying players aren’t trying or the coach doesn’t know what he is doing. Teams that went down like Swans have built a group of exceptional young talent. We are a club that can’t cope with going down so we trade firsts. I don’t complain after last year but think it will be a while before we get back to the big dance. But I will enjoy watching and barracking in the meantime and will look for the green shoots.

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

Watched the game for the first time last night. As is often the case things weren’t as diabolical as expected after reading the thread though still disappointing.
The thing that has me perplexed this year is the long periods where we go scoreless. I can’t figure us out this year we seem to be scintillating at times bringing huge gang pressure and then just bogged down for long periods. I feel like we had a couple more options game style wise last year and were ok speeding up and then controlling the game more whereas this season we seem very two paced.

Am still hopeful something turns and we are certainly due for a change of luck. The positive for me is that none of the teams battling it out for the eight are world beaters either. We are still in contention despite form and injuries and definitely have another level to go to which I’m not sure the others have.

 

[larrikan]

This is the first post that thinks about analysing the team. We would not have won in 2010 without Ball or last year without Mitchell. We are not a clearance team so need some who can do battle there. Nick and JDG and Crisp can power out if they get it but if it goes elsewhere they are not in a position to chase. Slow old players like Sidey and Pendles and slow young players like Josh can’t lay a finger on Merret. Moore is exposed without Murphy and is a Brownlow ruck rover like his dad who we need as KPD. He has great athleticism as an interceptor but not the positional sense of Stewart, McGovern or Sicily. He can’t dominate one on one like Weitering or Andrews. Q and Hill are having bad seasons. We need one of them to become wingmen to generate speed. Markov has lost confidence. Injury has destroyed our forward line. When we break records with pressure we look great but if the first player is not immediately under pressure, good teams chain handball into open quickly and then run in numbers or chip kick depending on game plan and play checkers through our zone which doesn’t understand that positioning is different when opposition kicker is not under pressure. In that case you must tighten up. Like the Doggies flag we won with a good system, a bit of luck, a pretty good team with too many aging stars, weaknesses in key positions and only one champion junior. Our 2010 team was miles better as was 1990. We now have to replace Pendles, Howe, Sidey, Mitchell, Cox, Elliot and Checkers in the next three years and we won’t win premierships with Fin McRae et al. Some of these kids might make Lipinski standard but you need 9 or so stars and no duds and luck to win a flag. But please stop saying players aren’t trying or the coach doesn’t know what he is doing. Teams that went down like Swans have built a group of exceptional young talent. We are a club that can’t cope with going down so we trade firsts. I don’t complain after last year but think it will be a while before we get back to the big dance. But I will enjoy watching and barracking in the meantime and will look for the green shoots.

Great analysis. Mirrors exactly our challenges. Its not just the flag last year. Its two years of some of the most exciting wins I've ever seen. When we talk about past flags they don't represent the body of work Fly has given us. We have been blessed as supporters the past two years and should celebrate that. We have become accustomed to the theatrical climatic wins. This year we have been competitive with injuries and inconsistent form. The twist I am hoping for is we beat Sydney and the scum and its all about us again


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[loki04]

I agree it would be nice, but we have drafted KPP, they’ve mainly just not worked out.

McCarty and McMahon were both top 30 picks, Scharenberg never got fit. Ollie Henry was more of a 2nd or 3rd tall but has obviously left. What is Reef going to be? The killer was the Stephenson pick as we missed out on some quality, but he was easily best available at the time.

Trading 6(?) first rounders for Beams, Treloar and now Schultz, as well as the future first before Daicos’ draft has hampered our ability to take any actual quality at the top end of the draft.

McClarty, McMahon were roughies in the 30s.

Shaz was never KPP height. They originally thought he'd become a midfielder.

Ollie Henry again not KPP height, more medium tall aka 3rd forward.

Reef also was pinned as an inside mid when selected. There was actually zero talk of becoming a KPP.
Has the ability to play it at 194cm with pace but needs to get to many more contests and hit the packs hard like Mihocek.

 

[Big Bryza]

Probably not much I can add that others haven’t already touched on but I’ve been stewing since the final siren so **** it lol. I found it bitterly disappointing how we can start red hot and then hit a literal brick wall and never get the game back on our terms. You always sort of know the opposition are gonna fight back, but then you expect it’ll be your turn again and that just never came. We’ve had some really fun wins under Fly in the last two and a bit years, but too many times we find ourselves flailing or being uncompetitive mainly through the second and third quarters of games.

Pendles - Closing in on 400 and we still ask way too much of him. He is the undisputed goat.

Sidebottom - 34 disposals looks good, think he’s a liability as a defender. Has lost his sharpness, fumbling and going to ground are killers.

Crisp - Genuinely didn’t notice him after his Alan Didak impersonation. Pretty much mirrored the team’s performance really

Naicos - Really just shows how much we rely on Nick. Was below his best standard, but I’m willing to give him a mulligan or 5 because he’s not Superman.

WHE - Wasn’t our worst, makes me nervous in the D50

Maynard - Don’t feel strongly either way. Just a part of a defensive unit that’s not defending well.

Markov - Said it last week, fairytale over. Sure he’s a great club man, but decision making and execution are questionable. Only room for he or Noble, I’m taking the latter.

DC - Draper wasn’t huge , neither was DC. Both a non-factor

JDG - Barely noticed him except for a 5 minute patch where he tried to make his presence known and got nailed holding the ball.

Moore - Thought he was trying too hard early, then melted and was a hot mess again imo. Had some moments and was better than last week, but that’s not saying much. The leader of the most unreliable defence we’ve had in a long while.

Krueger - Literally zero impact until DC was hurt and was forced to be involved in the play.

Dean - Won’t be overly critical of Chaz, inexperienced key defender who needs the support of defensive leaders but isn’t getting it atm.

Howe - A natural forward. I think I prefer the element of surprise with flicking him back their mid game, but as a target you know he’s usually gonna compete. Looked frustrated at times, don’t blame him with that delivery.

HH - He’s another one I can live with under performing. He’s young, kicked a nice goal, his output is heavily reliant on how the rest of the team is going. Not at the point of breaking games open by himself

Jaicos - Maybe harsh but probably shouldn’t have played. Might be giving him an out by saying his injury hampered him, but if they picked him and say he passed a fitness test, I expect more.

Lipinski - Bombers did their homework, they didn’t let him near it. A huge piece of score involvements gone

Mihocek - Always feel bad for key forwards on nights like last night. Does a lot of off the ball running to get others open. Essendon’s back 6 controlled the footy all night, delivery was poor.

IQ - Also said this last week, probably my most disappointing player of the year tbh. Was pushing AA last year, wouldn’t make a squad of 200 this year.

Richards - See HH

Schultz - I’ve backed him the last month or so, has been playing well imo. Horrendous last night. In saying that, hard to lay a tackle when Essendon (or any team) play that kick/mark style.

Hill - See Schultz, except it ****s me off when we get a flash of brilliance followed by an inexcusable skill error. Shake and bake to take a guy on, kick it straight to the opposition.

Frampton - He’s just not it. He feels like a bit of a meme, we all laugh when we win, stands out like a dog’s balls for all the wrong reasons when we lose.

Long - Showed more in his limited time than most did in a full game. Get rid of the sub rule!

Hill comes off once every 7-8 weeks with the way he plays. When it comes off it's Norm Smith worthy but he desperately needs to find some consistency and reliability to his game.

Frampton was going really well in the first 6-8 weeks off the season down back. Since being shuffled around mid season to the Forward/Ruck role it's cooked any semblance of form that he had. He's moved back into the most dysfunctional defence in the comp.

 

[Big Bryza]

What does it matter where I watched it ???

Are you saying that you can’t have an opinion unless you’re there ???
My god another red herring

Makes the world of difference watching a game at the ground compared to TV. Of course everyone can still have an opinion but Moore alone isn't the reason for our defensive shambles right now. It starts with our midfield picking and choosing when they want to put in the hard yards defensively.

 

[Big Bryza]

Still watching the replay. It was turning a bit in the second quarter but still not bad.

So first quarter was ok
Second ok but Essendon had more dominance.

It was the third quarter which I’m about to start, where it went so wrong.

These goalless quarters are becoming too frequent now.

Also allowing them to kick the first two of the last.

They're not just goalless quarters but genuinely lifeless quarters. That's between the ears and why pundits are now questioning how badly we actually we want it. We're relying on others to get the job done rather than doing what it takes to make your teammates job easier.

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

Great analysis. Mirrors exactly our challenges. Its not just the flag last year. Its two years of some of the most exciting wins I've ever seen. When we talk about past flags they don't represent the body of work Fly has given us. We have been blessed as supporters the past two years and should celebrate that. We have become accustomed to the theatrical climatic wins. This year we have been competitive with injuries and inconsistent form. The twist I am hoping for is we beat Sydney and the scum and its all about us again


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Yep. It’s the body of work of this team over these last two and a bit years that gives me plenty of hope for a resurgence over the last seven rounds. If the H&A season were a long match we are about 24 minutes into the third quarter and about 24 points down. Set up beautifully for us

 

[Kes1984]

They're not just goalless quarters but genuinely lifeless quarters. That's between the ears and why pundits are now questioning how badly we actually we want it. We're relying on others to get the job done rather than doing what it takes to make your teammates job easier.

Yes this!

They're just not the same hungry team of the past two years.

I keep getting annoyed at all the injury excuses. Yes it's been bad, but we had a pretty bad run last year too. Especially in the first half, and still won almost every week!

Our main issue is motivation.

 

[Big Bryza]

I’m just repeating what top level American surgeons have said, argue with them I guess.

Don't take info from bodybuilding.com as gospel.

 

[Big Bryza]

Yeah,I know he didn’t have that pick.But we know he wouldn’t have gone for a key position player even if had that pick.History shows that he would probably have gone for a small or medium sized utility rather than a key position player.That’s just how he operates.

Shall we swap Caddy for our 23 premiership? Maybe even give the Dons one of our finals wins over the past 20 years.

 

[Big Bryza]

Game was lost upfield last 2 weeks.

Defenders on a hiding to nothing some quarters.

This.

We probably do need to tighten up defensively and the Cats this week will really test us.

However, when our forwards and mids decide to have a night off on the defensive side of the game, our backs are going to be under severe pressure.

 

[Kappa]

This.

We probably do need to tighten up defensively and the Cats this week will really test us.

However, when our forwards and mids decide to have a night off on the defensive side of the game, our backs are going to be under severe pressure.

It would also be nice if Moore stopped kicking or handballing straight the opposition in the defensive half.

 

[cfc19902010]

It would also be nice if Moore stopped kicking or handballing straight the opposition in the defensive half.

definitely ..handing up easy goals ..ive noticed the skills all through the team have dropped off..turnovers galore ..handballs that go too long or too short ..kicks fluffed ..its an epidemic

 

[Maggie5]

It would also be nice if Moore stopped kicking or handballing straight the opposition in the defensive half.

It would be nice if Markov didn't constantly mind space, our wingers and mids dropped back to assist the defence where two of our defenders are playing forward etc etc.

One person is not responsible for our losses.

 

[jmac70]

It would be nice if Markov didn't constantly mind space, our wingers and mids dropped back to assist the defence where two of our defenders are playing forward etc etc.

One person is not responsible for our losses.

According to the AFL app, Moore had three turnovers against Essendon.
Whereas WHE had six.

 

[Kappa]

It would be nice if Markov didn't constantly mind space, our wingers and mids dropped back to assist the defence where two of our defenders are playing forward etc etc.

One person is not responsible for our losses.

No one is saying Moore is solely responsible.

He is a leader and one of our highest paid players and his form has been poor for a long time now, criticism is valid.

 

[Maggie5]

No one is saying Moore is solely responsible.

Gee reading posts about him mainly paints a different picture.

criticism is valid.

No the pile on isn't!

 

[Kappa]

According to the AFL app, Moore had three turnovers against Essendon.
Whereas WHE had six.

As was said before, the majority of time Moore gets the ball he just switches it out to a free man on the other side of the ground, his D/E means nothing, and 3 turnovers is very high for how he plays.

 

[Anzacday]

Whereas WHE had six.

I’m a fan of the man and see his value to the side.
However, I cannot for the life of me understand why he remained in defence.
He was undersized and his kicking was clearly off.
I would’ve swapped Howe back in the 3rd qtr.

 

[jmac70]

I’m a fan of the man and see his value to the side.
However, I cannot for the life of me understand why he remained in defence.
He was undersized and his kicking was clearly off.
I would’ve swapped Howe back in the 3rd qtr.

Hopefully Howe plays back on Friday night.