Review Round 18, 2023 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

[mpal6]

Expecting a mea culpa or volcanic eruption from Fages in a press conference is like expecting world peace - it's never going to happen. He's never going to pot shot his team whether that be players, coaches or himself so it's pointless is begging for it.

For me I think that rates as one of the worst losses I can remember.

I was just gutted when they laid on 5 unanswered goals in the first. I thought yep, we still aren't there yet.

Then we steady, we rise, we gel and we pants them for the next 2 quarters. We out run them. The repeat switches almost had me crying with joy. The maturity and calm, the sensible clear thinking, the ability to out think them and work them over.

For a moment I thought holy s**t, this is the progression we have all prayed for - a big game on a big stage and we have actually learned from all the "learnings".

And then we just... well it's hard to know exactly what we did and why we did it but the result is the most gutting loss I can recall. The nature of it just kills me. Our best and worst as so far apart they can't see each other.

No single person should accept responsibility but a few need to ask serious questions of themselves if this is now how things are done at the Lions.

Rayner should be asking how an 8 possession game is acceptable especially when he was offering little defensively. Oscar needs to ask himself how he overcomes his weakness in the knees around good players - his eyes were firmly on Gawn all night not the ball. Zorko needs to ask should he have actually played? Charlie needs to ask if his demanding and sulking on field actually adds to the result or detracts.

And the coaches need to ask whether they want to play 3 talls and lose the defensive edge or 2 and actually stick to it. The time for experimenting is over.

Charlie's one is an interesting situation. I wonder the whole defense/mids/forwards working as a crew is a bit obsessed over at the moment compared to playing team footy across all ranks. Stretching a long bow here but when Fletcher lined up and kicked that goal, Charlie was in front screaming for a pass. Didn't look that happy about him kicking a goal either. I remember Charlie running towards I50 with the ball few plays later and Fletcher was wide open on the I50 but he chose to hit a much harder pass to Hipwood which didn't get marked. I don't want to read much into this but it seems like the whole gelling as a group isn't there yet. There seems to be some sort of divide between established players and the newbies coming to the fold.

 

[Nathan Barley]

That 2nd and 3rd quarter was about as good as any team has played this season. We are still a couple games clear in the Top 4, we will be fine.

Are you happy with the team just being fine?

 

[martinson]

Charlie's one is an interesting situation. I wonder the whole defense/mids/forwards working as a crew is a bit obsessed over at the moment compared to playing team footy across all ranks. Stretching a long bow here but when Fletcher lined up and kicked that goal, Charlie was in front screaming for a pass. Didn't look that happy about him kicking a goal either. I remember Charlie running towards I50 with the ball few plays later and Fletcher was wide open on the wing but he chose to hit a much harder pass to Hipwood. I don't want to read much into this but it seems like the whole gelling as a group isn't there yet. There seems to be some sort of divide between established players and the newbies coming to the fold.

Charlie's definitely not happy at the moment. The head knock he copped hasn't helped. I'm just hoping the intense defensive pressure he's displayed for most of the year doesn't drop off in sympathy.

 

[CarterS]

Are you happy with the team just being fine?

Mate I'm looking for a positive spin on what is one of the most difficult losses to take in years!

 

[Toffee Lion]

Mate I'm looking for a positive spin on what is one of the most difficult losses to take in years!

It’s not even a spin. It’s just a positive.

Everyone is gutted we lost in that fashion but we were heading for a beat down in that 1st quarter. The turnaround was amazing and we played premiership worthy football at the MCG.

Nothing wrong with looking at the positives.

 

[CarterS]

Big O is a good ruck man but has been monstered by Gawn a few times now. If we play them again I think we need Fort in there.

 

[M Malice]

I was gutted and angry with the loss last night, up with the way I felt after the close Dogs and Giants finals losses.. at least the season is not finished this time.

I had an OK sleep and with some pragmatic perspective there was a couple of good things to come out of last night.

1- We played 90 out of 120 minutes of pretty impressive footy, which IMO would beat anyone.
2- Jaspa Fletcher is going to be a hell of a player, we are fine for at least another 3-4 years of the flag window being open.

What we need to do IMO >

1- STOP TRYING TO SHUT GAMES DOWN TOO EARLY.
2- I agree with Gadzorks in that a Gunston/3rd tall in stifles Cam Rayner's game.
3- I wouldn't mind giving Darcy Fort

32

Darcy Fort

Age

31

Ht

204cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.6

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

2.9

3star

M

1.9

2star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

9.2

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

3.2

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

3star

G

0.2

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.2

4star

a go over the Big O, I'm not a fan of 2 rucks.
4- The game now is all about turnover and transition both in defence and attack, elite/A grade pace and endurance is a killer to play against, you can not afford to carry any more than 1 player who is below a B grade level in that area of the game. We have more than 1 of Gunston/Lyons/Rich in the side we are cooked as far as this year is concerned.

 

[mpal6]

Positive note - Fletcher played another fantastic game. Knew where to run, competed hard for footy and that running forward looking up to mark the ball against oncoming player was Jonathan Brown-like. I can't believe commentators completely missed quoting it.

MCG didn't faze him and he'll be ready for more next time. Good choice backing him and keeping him in the side.

 

[M Malice]

Charlie's one is an interesting situation. I wonder the whole defense/mids/forwards working as a crew is a bit obsessed over at the moment compared to playing team footy across all ranks. Stretching a long bow here but when Fletcher lined up and kicked that goal, Charlie was in front screaming for a pass. Didn't look that happy about him kicking a goal either. I remember Charlie running towards I50 with the ball few plays later and Fletcher was wide open on the wing but he chose to hit a much harder pass to Hipwood which didn't get marked. I don't want to read much into this but it seems like the whole gelling as a group isn't there yet. There seems to be some sort of divide between established players and the newbies coming to the fold.

Haven't read over the last half dozen pages so may have been mentioned but Charlie made a big blue late when we were winding down the clock... He took a mark on the wing and had Kiddy running past calling for the handball with a massive open F50 in front of him and a couple of 1 v 1s ahead, I would of backed Kiddy to find someone and we would have wrapped up the game right there.

Charlie probably playing to instructions but you have to trust your team mates if they want the quick play.

 

[Gadzorks]

I was gutted and angry with the loss last night, up with the way I felt after the close Dogs and Giants finals losses.. at least the season is not finished this time.

I had an OK sleep and with some pragmatic perspective there was a couple of good things to come out of last night.

1- We played 90 out of 120 minutes of pretty impressive footy, which IMO would beat anyone.
2- Jaspa Fletcher is going to be a hell of a player, we are fine for at least another 3-4 years of the flag window being open.

What we need to do IMO >

1- STOP TRYING TO SHUT GAMES DOWN TOO EARLY.
2- I agree with Gadzorks in that a Gunston/3rd tall in stifles Cam Rayner's game.
3- I wouldn't mind giving Darcy Fort a go over the Big O, I'm not a fan of 2 rucks.
4- The game now is all about turnover and transition both in defence and attack, elite/A grade pace and endurance is a killer to play against, you can not afford to carry any more than 1 player who is below a B grade level in that area of the game. We have more than 1 of Gunston/Lyons/Rich in the side we are cooked as far as this year is concerned.

Not just Rayner, I think the third tall takes Charlie out as well.

 

[M Malice]

Not just Rayner, I think the third tall takes Charlie out as well.

We definitely look quicker across the ground and more cohesive with a 2 tall set up.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

I come in peace. My younger sis married into a fierce Brissie family with her husband and my two nephews loyal Lions so myself and Sinjin Jnr have a soft spot for Brissie.

1) You guys went defensive in the last way to early. Should have kept up your superb style of the 2nd and 3rd quarters and you would have iced that game by 6+ goals. You are a better more talented team than the Dee's.

2) Commentary was awful and woefully biased towards Melbourne. BT was actively barracking for the Dee's, was painful.

3) Melbourne got away with a few throws and other decisions in the last.

I genuinely hope your boys can go all the way this year and we help you today by knocking off Port.

Chin up, you have a very talented team that just needs to break one mental challenge, it will happen.

 

[Scubaveg]

Two very obvious “learnings”:
1. Bailey playing on in the middle of the ground 5 minutes to go 19points up. Stop hold it up, instead he goes 100 miles an hour and kicks it straight down the throat of two Melbourne defenders. Turnover and goal follows.
2. Willmott, 3 mins to go 11 points up. Kicking long down the line, when gunston was free behind and across. A switch was set up and the ball moves down the other end. Instead Willmott long kicks down the line, Gawn marks sends it back in and a goal follows.

Those two moments don’t happen, we don’t lose. But they did happen. The first of them is the worse. Bailey does this all the time. He’s experienced enough now to stop and slow it down at that point, but he can’t control his emotions and keeps on doing it. Every game.


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[Gadzorks]

We definitely look quicker across the ground and more cohesive with a 2 tall set up.

Fagan needs to try the two tall set up against the pies.

It's our last opportunity to find a winning formula for finals.

 

[JasRulz63]

We definitely look quicker across the ground and more cohesive with a 2 tall set up.

100%. We carried Gunston, Rayner and an unfit Zorko as our weak links defensively in the forward half. If that's suddenly Rayner, Robertson and Ah Chee (or Lohmann or fit Zorko), that gives the forward half a different identity.

That being said, I still think a fit Zorko has a massive role to play in finals, and I think it's worth finding out if he can get there or not.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Haven't read over the last half dozen pages so may have been mentioned but Charlie made a big blue late when we were winding down the clock... He took a mark on the wing and had Kiddy running past calling for the handball with a massive open F50 in front of him and a couple of 1 v 1s ahead, I would of backed Kiddy to find someone and we would have wrapped up the game right there.

Charlie probably playing to instructions but you have to trust your team mates if they want the quick play.

This is exactly why we lost, instead of playing on instinct which got us 5 goals up there was a clear instruction to slow it down and get control. With 15 minutes to go mind you. Game changing tactic, ridiculous from the coaching staff. We needed one goal in the last instead of trying to hold on. I’m furious about it.

 

[Gibbo_88]

I was devastated last night but not as critical as other losses we've had. Anything less than 5 goals against another team in the top 4 is not going to be a safe lead.

Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

was incredible last night, we need to find a better way of dealing with that to be better for next time.

 

[Thomasno]

Two very obvious “learnings”:
1. Bailey playing on in the middle of the ground 5 minutes to go 19points up. Stop hold it up, instead he goes 100 miles an hour and kicks it straight down the throat of two Melbourne defenders. Turnover and goal follows.
2. Willmott, 3 mins to go 11 points up. Kicking long down the line, when gunston was free behind and across. A switch was set up and the ball moves down the other end. Instead Willmott long kicks down the line, Gawn marks sends it back in and a goal follows.

Those two moments don’t happen, we don’t lose. But they did happen. The first of them is the worse. Bailey does this all the time. He’s experienced enough now to stop and slow it down at that point, but he can’t control his emotions and keeps on doing it. Every game.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

This is my issue too. If you’re going to park the bus and play defensively (which in itself was a tactical error 10 minutes out), then commit and play defensively. They half assed it.

 

[Macca180]

We are now in a dog fight for top 4, with games against the Cats next week and the Pies away to come, that is a terrible defeat for us, we looked the best side except for the first 15 minutes and the last 15 minutes.

Nah top 4 is fine. Just gona have to go to Melbourne or Adelaide week 1 now.

 

[martinson]

This is exactly why we lost, instead of playing on instinct which got us 5 goals up there was a clear instruction to slow it down and get control. With 15 minutes to go mind you. Game changing tactic, ridiculous from the coaching staff. We needed one goal in the last instead of trying to hold on. I’m furious about it.

I'm not furious but once it became evident that we'd gone defensive Melbourne got a real go on knowing that we weren't any attacking threat.

And then really lifted when they got a sniff.

 

[Macca180]

Still reason to take away lots of positives from last night.

Will learn from that last 10 minutes.
Can play well on the G.

Pies only threat at the G no one else anywhere.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Max Gawn was incredible last night, we need to find a better way of dealing with that to be better for next time.

Kicking where he ain’t would be a start.

 

[M Malice]

Nah top 4 is fine. Just gona have to go to Melbourne or Adelaide week 1 now.

I hope so but lose against the Cats next weekend at the Gabba and it will get scary.

 

[Macca180]

I hope so but lose against the Cats next weekend at the Gabba and it will get scary.

true.

But think we win that.

 

[scott_the_man]

One of the most painful losses I can recall, that one hurts.

Gotta look at the positives though, we played some scintillating footy and were all over them for a good portion of the game. If we can play like that for 4 quarters we would be near unbeatable.

Ashcroft and Fletcher stood up in some big moments which was pleasing. Bailey was electric.