Review Round 18, 2023 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

[Voss the boss]

This brought back heartbreaking memories of that loss to Dees at the MCG in 2008, we lead the majority of that game then we lost in the final minute.

I went to the game last night and as I walked pre game - guess which game was playing on the big screen… yep this one! Omen or what haha

 

[RoyBoy17]

The thing I find bemusing is when we ‘dropped/ managed’ Rich and Gunston I legitimately thought we were finally realising as a coaching group that given we aren’t blessed for pace as it is and that we need to get rid of liabilities defensively at the MCG. Maybe we were gearing up to play Melbourne with only two talls and see how we go with a smaller forward line. Then we just revert to type. Nothing new learnt.

No interviewer had the guts to ask Fagan why we didn’t equalise numbers or why we went ultra defensive. Why we don’t switch the play or even look to do it. I think we usually cop over or close to 100 points at the G. We need to be better pressure wise. First 15 we were witches hats. Still stuck in eagles mode.

 

[alscotoz2]

I was at the game. I didn't join the pile on after 10 minutes, kept the powder dry. I genuinely thought we would run away with it in the second half, and we did for a quarter, and I genuinely did not anticipate what unfolded because we were that comfortable.

In top level sport, whether fair or not, the buck stops with the coach. Fagan is not, and has never been, a head coach. Our 'success' over the past few years has been in spite of him, not because of him. We will look back in a few years and look at the players he had at his disposal and think, what a waste.

We have a very good squad who, player for player, are right up there in the competition. We need a Matthews, Clarkson, Scott, Hardwick type leader. Winners. Mongrels. Not a 'nice uncle '.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to one game. Fagan is soft, ergo so are the teams he puts out on the field. Until he and his lieutenants are gone, we're winning nothing. Qualifying for the finals seems to be a win for our club...

Anyway, I didn't want to rant. I've thought this for a couple of years. We could/should have won a title during the COVID years.

Fagan is done, and has been for a while. Get rid. Do it soon enough and we might see this squad achieve what they are capable of...unless their mental softness is too far gone.

Get a bastard in and shake things up.

 

[Elixuh]

One of the most painful losses I can recall, that one hurts.

Gotta look at the positives though, we played some scintillating footy and were all over them for a good portion of the game. If we can play like that for 4 quarters we would be near unbeatable.

Ashcroft and Fletcher stood up in some big moments which was pleasing. Bailey was electric.

I can sooth your pain:

 

[The Zork]

It would have been nice to take learnings from playing positive football and running away with that game like we should have.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Gawn hit out to advantage 45%

 

[Squizz89]

Reckon the loss will sting even more at about 7.30 tonight, after Carlton do what would’ve been a real favour for us on Port.

 

[scoman]

Was such an emotional night. To start so terribly was frustrating, we didn't compete, we let a midfield group of Viney, Sparrow and Pickett destroy us, thanks in part to a dominant ruck, but it just wasn't good enough.

Then to watch us fight back into the game was really pleasing. We had some fantastic individual goals and noticeably changed the way we moved the ball as it became apparent May and Lever had the long kicks covered. Neale got busy in the clearances with Bailey and Daniher fantastic around the ground. It got to the point in the third and early in the last that we were looking every bit a premiership quality team. We had them on toast, completely outplayed both tactically and with skill and effort.

Unfortunately, the night would then take a dramatic turn as we decided to stop playing football. Instead of continuing to compete and move the ball positively we went into some negative holding pattern. Gunston was swung back with a huge amount of time on the clock and had zero influence. Our leaders were unsighted. It was just plain embarrassing to watch. I'm afraid we have to use the words; weak, fragile and gutless, because that's what it was. Im sick of hearing about learnings. The only learnings to come out of last night were negative for us I'm afraid. Has reinforced the opinion of other teams that we are soft and weak when pressure is applied, and has stripped our lads of confidence for the future.

 

[Milux]

Alright. So. With some time to calm down and reflect. We lost by 1 point. Against a top 4 side. On their home deck. We played 20 mins of extremely poor football and only lost by 1 point. We also had players not playing to their potential and they were our leaders. Not saying they weren't trying. Just the little things they normally do well didn't go our way.

There are way too many positives to just throw everything out the window. Now we get back our 2nd best mid in Dunks next week. Reset. Go again.

Again. 1 point. Away. Against a top 4 side who won a flag few years ago.

 

[Strato]

I was at the game. I didn't join the pile on after 10 minutes, kept the powder dry. I genuinely thought we would run away with it in the second half, and we did for a quarter, and I genuinely did not anticipate what unfolded because we were that comfortable.

In top level sport, whether fair or not, the buck stops with the coach. Fagan is not, and has never been, a head coach. Our 'success' over the past few years has been in spite of him, not because of him. We will look back in a few years and look at the players he had at his disposal and think, what a waste.

We have a very good squad who, player for player, are right up there in the competition. We need a Matthews, Clarkson, Scott, Hardwick type leader. Winners. Mongrels. Not a 'nice uncle '.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to one game. Fagan is soft, ergo so are the teams he puts out on the field. Until he and his lieutenants are gone, we're winning nothing. Qualifying for the finals seems to be a win for our club...

Anyway, I didn't want to rant. I've thought this for a couple of years. We could/should have won a title during the COVID years.

Fagan is done, and has been for a while. Get rid. Do it soon enough and we might see this squad achieve what they are capable of...unless their mental softness is too far gone.

Get a bastard in and shake things up.

I have been saying this for 2 years. Unfortunately the Coach does not have the Mongrel in him and the tactical smarts. Fagan could be a good team manager but is not a Head Coach.

 

[martinson]

Alright. So. With some time to calm down and reflect. We lost by 1 point. Against a top 4 side. On their home deck. We played 20 mins of extremely poor football and only lost by 1 point. We also had players not playing to their potential and they were our leaders. Not saying they weren't trying. Just the little things they normally do well didn't go our way.

There are way too many positives to just throw everything out the window. Now we get back our 2nd best mid in Dunks next week. Reset. Go again.

Again. 1 point. Away. Against a top 4 side who won a flag few years ago.

I agree there were many positives.

It's just that the negatives were train wreck like.

When Fages was coaching at the Hawks he had guns behind the ball who were elite with their kicking and decision making and with the confidence that comes with success . So you could shut the game down with a good expectation of it working.

 

[Squizz89]

Alright. So. With some time to calm down and reflect. We lost by 1 point. Against a top 4 side. On their home deck. We played 20 mins of extremely poor football and only lost by 1 point. We also had players not playing to their potential and they were our leaders. Not saying they weren't trying. Just the little things they normally do well didn't go our way.

There are way too many positives to just throw everything out the window. Now we get back our 2nd best mid in Dunks next week. Reset. Go again.

Again. 1 point. Away. Against a top 4 side who won a flag few years ago.

You’re right there were a lot of positives from that second and third quarter. During those quarters we actually looked a premiership standard team. We were having our way with them and they couldn’t go with us.

The problem is with another loss like that is it mentally drains supporters, imagine what that’s doing to players?

We couldn’t have played much better for 70% of that game (end of first and start of last were fine) and yet our opposition play for a good 20 minutes and we still can’t win the game, on the ground where we are going to have to win, to win it all. That must be mentally hard for the players no matter what rhetoric they or Fages comes out with. It’s just human nature.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I was at the game. I didn't join the pile on after 10 minutes, kept the powder dry. I genuinely thought we would run away with it in the second half, and we did for a quarter, and I genuinely did not anticipate what unfolded because we were that comfortable.

In top level sport, whether fair or not, the buck stops with the coach. Fagan is not, and has never been, a head coach. Our 'success' over the past few years has been in spite of him, not because of him. We will look back in a few years and look at the players he had at his disposal and think, what a waste.

We have a very good squad who, player for player, are right up there in the competition. We need a Matthews, Clarkson, Scott, Hardwick type leader. Winners. Mongrels. Not a 'nice uncle '.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to one game. Fagan is soft, ergo so are the teams he puts out on the field. Until he and his lieutenants are gone, we're winning nothing. Qualifying for the finals seems to be a win for our club...

Anyway, I didn't want to rant. I've thought this for a couple of years. We could/should have won a title during the COVID years.

Fagan is done, and has been for a while. Get rid. Do it soon enough and we might see this squad achieve what they are capable of...unless their mental softness is too far gone.

Get a bastard in and shake things up.

I’m as flat as anyone but let’s be realistic here. We would be bottom 4 without Fagan just like we were before he got here. Very good chance we wouldn’t have Charlie, Neale or Daniher as well.

 

[Milux]

You’re right there were a lot of positives from that second and third quarter. During those quarters we actually looked a premiership standard team. We were having our way with them and they couldn’t go with us.

The problem is with another loss like that is it mentally drains supporters, imagine what that’s doing to players?

We couldn’t have played much better for 70% of that game (end of first and start of last were fine) and yet our opposition play for a good 20 minutes and we still can’t win the game, on the ground where we are going to have to win, to win it all. That must be mentally hard for the players no matter what rhetoric they or Fages comes out with. It’s just human nature.

For me the biggest positive was the fact we were able to adjust around the 10 min mark of the first qtr. How many times have we rolled a team in the first 15 mins of the qtr and the other side rolls over. We didn't roll over. Not at least until 10 mins to go.

As for the players. This is their job. I'm sure they are hurting. Probably have some time to reflect on it today. Tomorrow go surfing, fishing or golfing. Back into it Monday getting ready for the next time round. They will be more then fine. They handle this so much better then we do.

 

[alscotoz2]

I’m as flat as anyone but let’s be realistic here. We would be bottom 4 without Fagan just like we were before he got here. Very good chance we wouldn’t have Charlie, Neale or Daniher as well.

Cameron and Daniher are both mentally soft.

 

[haystark]

I’m as flat as anyone but let’s be realistic here. We would be bottom 4 without Fagan just like we were before he got here. Very good chance we wouldn’t have Charlie, Neale or Daniher as well.

I agree with you. Fagan was a big reason we were able to lure big name players. But is he the right man and can he take us to a grand final?

 

[Milux]

I agree there were many positives.

It's just that the negatives were train wreck like.

When Fages was coaching at the Hawks he had guns behind the ball who were elite with their kicking and decision making and with the confidence that comes with success . So you could shut the game down with a good expectation of it working.

The positives about that negative is that is our absolute worse. Right up there with the Port second half and the Hawthorn game. And it was for a fair portion of the game. But still. 1 point. 1 Daniher left hand bounce instead of right.

Melbourne played out their skin and beat us by 1 point on their home deck. Anyone who thinks that's not Melbourne's best is dreaming. I'm assuming that's their highest score all year. I'm happy to be wrong about that as I haven't actually checked.

 

[scoman]

The difficulty with Rayner is giving him a role as much as anything. If we want him to impact the game he has to play a chuck of time on the ball or as the third tall. Playing as a half forward doesn't allow him to use his strengths consistently imho.

 

[dlanod]

Depends - maybe missing the finals is better than being limp and never looking like it in finals and having absolutely zero to show for it in five years, I don’t know but we aren’t doing anything this campaign.

I've seen enough teams put together a surprise good run of three or four games and make a GF or win a premiership off it to know that thinking missing finals completely might be better is just silly.

 

[Elixuh]

Cameron and Daniher are both mentally soft.

Daniher is one of our best players mentally, even keel. He was excellent last night.

 

[Milux]

The difficulty with Rayner is giving him a role as much as anything. If we want him to impact the game he has to play a chuck of time on the ball or as the third tall. Playing as a half forward doesn't allow him to use his strengths consistently imho.

I would of liked to of seen him behind the ball in the last. Thought he needed some touch on the ball. May have made a huge difference in some of those 50/50 contests they won.

 

[Elixuh]

Depends - maybe missing the finals is better than being limp and never looking like it in finals and having absolutely zero to show for it in five years, I don’t know but we aren’t doing anything this campaign.

We’ll get spanked by Port, no guarantee to wing the week after and then we’ll be completely embarrassed again at the G against the Pies. This group and coaches are just too mentally weak to ever turn this stuff around- again too much proof over the past five years to say that they’re not when they’ve just never done it so expecting anything less is not going to happen.

Wow. You have taken this loss really badly lol. Some super hot takes over the past 12 hours.

 

[dlanod]

I've never really bothered to watch coach's press conferences, they never really give away a lot and I just treat what they do say as marketing spin.

They're a contractual obligation that coaches only do under duress, where saying nothing is the only undoubtedly winning scenario.

So looking for insight in them, especially week after week, is pretty close to madness.

 

[dlanod]

That's true.

It's just that you probably need to give the supporters a bit more than come away looking delusional.

Most supporters interact with the club through social media these days. The number of Lions members interested and watching the press conferences would be lucky to reach four figures, though disproportionately represented here.

 

[Tom14]

Kicking where he ain’t would be a start.

In a mild defence the opposite side wing to Gawn generally had 2 Melbourne players to the 1 winger which was usually Dev. Still would have been worth trying once it became clear what was happening.