Review Round 18, 2023 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

[martinson]

Alright. So. With some time to calm down and reflect. We lost by 1 point. Against a top 4 side. On their home deck. We played 20 mins of extremely poor football and only lost by 1 point. We also had players not playing to their potential and they were our leaders. Not saying they weren't trying. Just the little things they normally do well didn't go our way.

There are way too many positives to just throw everything out the window. Now we get back our 2nd best mid in Dunks next week. Reset. Go again.

Again. 1 point. Away. Against a top 4 side who won a flag few years ago.

I agree there were many positives.

It's just that the negatives were train wreck like.

When Fages was coaching at the Hawks he had guns behind the ball who were elite with their kicking and decision making and with the confidence that comes with success . So you could shut the game down with a good expectation of it working.

 

[Squizz89]

Alright. So. With some time to calm down and reflect. We lost by 1 point. Against a top 4 side. On their home deck. We played 20 mins of extremely poor football and only lost by 1 point. We also had players not playing to their potential and they were our leaders. Not saying they weren't trying. Just the little things they normally do well didn't go our way.

There are way too many positives to just throw everything out the window. Now we get back our 2nd best mid in Dunks next week. Reset. Go again.

Again. 1 point. Away. Against a top 4 side who won a flag few years ago.

You’re right there were a lot of positives from that second and third quarter. During those quarters we actually looked a premiership standard team. We were having our way with them and they couldn’t go with us.

The problem is with another loss like that is it mentally drains supporters, imagine what that’s doing to players?

We couldn’t have played much better for 70% of that game (end of first and start of last were fine) and yet our opposition play for a good 20 minutes and we still can’t win the game, on the ground where we are going to have to win, to win it all. That must be mentally hard for the players no matter what rhetoric they or Fages comes out with. It’s just human nature.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I was at the game. I didn't join the pile on after 10 minutes, kept the powder dry. I genuinely thought we would run away with it in the second half, and we did for a quarter, and I genuinely did not anticipate what unfolded because we were that comfortable.

In top level sport, whether fair or not, the buck stops with the coach. Fagan is not, and has never been, a head coach. Our 'success' over the past few years has been in spite of him, not because of him. We will look back in a few years and look at the players he had at his disposal and think, what a waste.

We have a very good squad who, player for player, are right up there in the competition. We need a Matthews, Clarkson, Scott, Hardwick type leader. Winners. Mongrels. Not a 'nice uncle '.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to one game. Fagan is soft, ergo so are the teams he puts out on the field. Until he and his lieutenants are gone, we're winning nothing. Qualifying for the finals seems to be a win for our club...

Anyway, I didn't want to rant. I've thought this for a couple of years. We could/should have won a title during the COVID years.

Fagan is done, and has been for a while. Get rid. Do it soon enough and we might see this squad achieve what they are capable of...unless their mental softness is too far gone.

Get a bastard in and shake things up.

I’m as flat as anyone but let’s be realistic here. We would be bottom 4 without Fagan just like we were before he got here. Very good chance we wouldn’t have Charlie, Neale or Daniher as well.

 

[Milux]

You’re right there were a lot of positives from that second and third quarter. During those quarters we actually looked a premiership standard team. We were having our way with them and they couldn’t go with us.

The problem is with another loss like that is it mentally drains supporters, imagine what that’s doing to players?

We couldn’t have played much better for 70% of that game (end of first and start of last were fine) and yet our opposition play for a good 20 minutes and we still can’t win the game, on the ground where we are going to have to win, to win it all. That must be mentally hard for the players no matter what rhetoric they or Fages comes out with. It’s just human nature.

For me the biggest positive was the fact we were able to adjust around the 10 min mark of the first qtr. How many times have we rolled a team in the first 15 mins of the qtr and the other side rolls over. We didn't roll over. Not at least until 10 mins to go.

As for the players. This is their job. I'm sure they are hurting. Probably have some time to reflect on it today. Tomorrow go surfing, fishing or golfing. Back into it Monday getting ready for the next time round. They will be more then fine. They handle this so much better then we do.

 

[alscotoz2]

I’m as flat as anyone but let’s be realistic here. We would be bottom 4 without Fagan just like we were before he got here. Very good chance we wouldn’t have Charlie, Neale or Daniher as well.

Cameron and Daniher are both mentally soft.

 

[haystark]

I’m as flat as anyone but let’s be realistic here. We would be bottom 4 without Fagan just like we were before he got here. Very good chance we wouldn’t have Charlie, Neale or Daniher as well.

I agree with you. Fagan was a big reason we were able to lure big name players. But is he the right man and can he take us to a grand final?

 

[Milux]

I agree there were many positives.

It's just that the negatives were train wreck like.

When Fages was coaching at the Hawks he had guns behind the ball who were elite with their kicking and decision making and with the confidence that comes with success . So you could shut the game down with a good expectation of it working.

The positives about that negative is that is our absolute worse. Right up there with the Port second half and the Hawthorn game. And it was for a fair portion of the game. But still. 1 point. 1 Daniher left hand bounce instead of right.

Melbourne played out their skin and beat us by 1 point on their home deck. Anyone who thinks that's not Melbourne's best is dreaming. I'm assuming that's their highest score all year. I'm happy to be wrong about that as I haven't actually checked.

 

[scoman]

The difficulty with Rayner is giving him a role as much as anything. If we want him to impact the game he has to play a chuck of time on the ball or as the third tall. Playing as a half forward doesn't allow him to use his strengths consistently imho.

 

[dlanod]

Depends - maybe missing the finals is better than being limp and never looking like it in finals and having absolutely zero to show for it in five years, I don’t know but we aren’t doing anything this campaign.

I've seen enough teams put together a surprise good run of three or four games and make a GF or win a premiership off it to know that thinking missing finals completely might be better is just silly.

 

[Elixuh]

Cameron and Daniher are both mentally soft.

Daniher is one of our best players mentally, even keel. He was excellent last night.

 

[Milux]

The difficulty with Rayner is giving him a role as much as anything. If we want him to impact the game he has to play a chuck of time on the ball or as the third tall. Playing as a half forward doesn't allow him to use his strengths consistently imho.

I would of liked to of seen him behind the ball in the last. Thought he needed some touch on the ball. May have made a huge difference in some of those 50/50 contests they won.

 

[Elixuh]

Depends - maybe missing the finals is better than being limp and never looking like it in finals and having absolutely zero to show for it in five years, I don’t know but we aren’t doing anything this campaign.

We’ll get spanked by Port, no guarantee to wing the week after and then we’ll be completely embarrassed again at the G against the Pies. This group and coaches are just too mentally weak to ever turn this stuff around- again too much proof over the past five years to say that they’re not when they’ve just never done it so expecting anything less is not going to happen.

Wow. You have taken this loss really badly lol. Some super hot takes over the past 12 hours.

 

[dlanod]

I've never really bothered to watch coach's press conferences, they never really give away a lot and I just treat what they do say as marketing spin.

They're a contractual obligation that coaches only do under duress, where saying nothing is the only undoubtedly winning scenario.

So looking for insight in them, especially week after week, is pretty close to madness.

 

[dlanod]

That's true.

It's just that you probably need to give the supporters a bit more than come away looking delusional.

Most supporters interact with the club through social media these days. The number of Lions members interested and watching the press conferences would be lucky to reach four figures, though disproportionately represented here.

 

[Tom14]

Kicking where he ain’t would be a start.

In a mild defence the opposite side wing to Gawn generally had 2 Melbourne players to the 1 winger which was usually Dev. Still would have been worth trying once it became clear what was happening.

 

[Toffee Lion]

I've seen enough teams put together a surprise good run of three or four games and make a GF or win a premiership off it to know that thinking missing finals completely might be better is just silly.

GWS made a Grand Final with trips to the GABBA and MCG as their path.

This is the right attitude. Come finals time, it’s a whole new season.

We choked to Richmond at the MCG last year and then not only beat them at the GABBA but then Melbourne at the MCG.

The main effects of a Round 17 loss is 4 points. That’s it. It won’t be mentally scarring or season defining. How we bounce back and continue our run into finals is the most important factor moving forward now.

 

[martinson]

I've seen enough teams put together a surprise good run of three or four games and make a GF or win a premiership off it to know that thinking missing finals completely might be better is just silly.

I can see lots of reasons why we're not able to win a flag. But as long as we stay in the Top 4 the opposition this year isn't anyone we can't beat on our day.

There are a lot worse teams than us that have won a flag.

We need to get the right personnel on the park and learn from our tactical errors that to win it you need to take it

 

[dlanod]

Mate I'm looking for a positive spin on what is one of the most difficult losses to take in years!

I'm ecstatic with the game - I only saw a one point loss for a change!

 

[Gadzorks]

I was at the game. I didn't join the pile on after 10 minutes, kept the powder dry. I genuinely thought we would run away with it in the second half, and we did for a quarter, and I genuinely did not anticipate what unfolded because we were that comfortable.

In top level sport, whether fair or not, the buck stops with the coach. Fagan is not, and has never been, a head coach. Our 'success' over the past few years has been in spite of him, not because of him. We will look back in a few years and look at the players he had at his disposal and think, what a waste.

We have a very good squad who, player for player, are right up there in the competition. We need a Matthews, Clarkson, Scott, Hardwick type leader. Winners. Mongrels. Not a 'nice uncle '.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to one game. Fagan is soft, ergo so are the teams he puts out on the field. Until he and his lieutenants are gone, we're winning nothing. Qualifying for the finals seems to be a win for our club...

Anyway, I didn't want to rant. I've thought this for a couple of years. We could/should have won a title during the COVID years.

Fagan is done, and has been for a while. Get rid. Do it soon enough and we might see this squad achieve what they are capable of...unless their mental softness is too far gone.

Get a bastard in and shake things up.

Then get rid of them as soon as we are over the success hump.

They aren't good at club building.

 

[dlanod]

Kicking where he ain’t would be a start.

But boss, he's everywhere!!!

 

[dlanod]

In top level sport, whether fair or not, the buck stops with the coach. Fagan is not, and has never been, a head coach. Our 'success' over the past few years has been in spite of him, not because of him. We will look back in a few years and look at the players he had at his disposal and think, what a waste.

Funnily enough I remember the years prior to Fagan. I also don't remember a whole lot of success. If success was coming despite the head coach, then why didn't it come in the prior decade?

You can't say that the buck stops with the coach and then discard all positive results.

 

[M Malice]

Well that sucks. Awful feeling. Hard to be unhappy overall though - incredibly competitive effort away against another top 4 side playing the best they have in months.

Won't finish top 2 now, but that mightn't be the worst thing for us.

Proud of the effort we showed tonight on the whole. Step forward, despite the result.

Agree, if we don't finish top 2 I don't think it is the deathknell for our flag chances at all, as long as we don't fall out of the top 4, finish 3rd or 4th we are guaranteed 1 final at the Gabba so we at the very least make a Prelim IMO... from there anything can happen just depends on getting there in good physical shape and with near to our best side on the park.

However if we play too many slow on transition players we could foreseeably go out in straight sets, there will be some handy sides in the 5-8 ladder positions come finals, lose the qualifying final and you could even run into the Cats in a semi final.

 

[martinson]

Undoubtedly Fagan has had great success at the Lions ,and particularly in enticing A Grade players to the club.

That doesn't mean there aren't elements of truth in what some of his critics on here are saying which seem to relate to coaching style and tactics.

No coach is the full package . It's a tough gig . Eventually they all run their race whatever success they have.

I honestly have no idea where we would/wouldn't be without Fagan or whether he's the right person to make us better but overall you'd have to say he's developed a very competitive outfit in his time here.

 

[Thomasno]

Wow. You have taken this loss really badly lol. Some super hot takes over the past 12 hours.

Genuinely unsure why people like that don’t just walk away from sports altogether if it affects them that much.

There’s a similar guy on the subreddit that will just tear into the team if it’s anything but a comfortable win.

 

[mpal6]

One more thing we could've tried - if Berry isn't working out in the wing, swapped him with Wilmot - push him into defense to wrestle with Petracca. Poor Starce was slightly outsized and was struggling all game, Berry to Petracca in defense would've made some impact.

We will run into this mob in finals and hopefully with Dunkley back, we can go Dunkley vs Oliver and Berry vs Petracca.