Review Round 18, 2023 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

[Kernel Kurtz]

That was absolutely f*ing deplorable. We had the game completely on our terms and completely s* the bed. Oscar was given an absolute bath tonight, I know Gawn is good, but everything O touched went to Melbourne.

Once again we let a team back in when we have a healthy lead. Should have been sitting 12 points clear of them right now. Beyond p*ssed off.

Just on the big O.
Noticed it in center bounces , Gawn goes in looking at the ball , attacking the ball,
Oscar first watches Gawn then makes an assessment. Gawn in position, wins contest.
Just attack the footy , it's a center bounce.
Thought the first quarter , this was glaring.

 

[dlanod]

Is there a good reason why Coleman doesn't take our kick outs? Too high up the ground to get back to take them?

He was off for a lot of that last segment where the ball was pinballing in and out of our defensive 50 from memory, I think I recall seeing him coming on after they finally got the second last goal.

 

[Chobo]

A nights sleep has done nothing, still seething.

 

[RU_]

A nights sleep has done nothing, still seething.

Yep, I feel ‘hungover’ but haven’t had a drink in over a month. I’m still just seething with anger at what happened last night.

Well, we could be the Blues and put their supporters through the final 2 games of last year to miss the 8. That would be worse.

 

[McIvor]

I've woken up feeling ok...until the Broncs lose today too but anyway, I actually feel like last night really has one of two potential outcomes:
1. The coaching group goes and makes the same mistakes they continually make and go back to the favourites when the team is picked next week and the season and probably Fagan becomes a likely write off

or

2. Fagan goes away and realises that last night has revealed to him what needs to change if we are to be serious contenders this year and that is become less conservative when the game gets tight and pick a team with no passengers /underdone players

If number 2 happens, this game potentially becomes the moment that makes us take the next step. The questions is, which way will Fagan go?

Problem is we’ve had people saying the same after the loss to Port, then Dogs, Crows and finally Hawks that each respective loss will be the jolt that takes us to the next step only to again and again be saying the same thing weeks later. I think we have to accept that the coaches and/ or players are stupid if they think they ever take learnings from anything because they don’t and there is more than enough proof of that over the past five years.

 

[McIvor]

Yep, I feel ‘hungover’ but haven’t had a drink in over a month. I’m still just seething with anger at what happened last night.

Well, we could be the Blues and put their supporters through the final 2 games of last year to miss the 8. That would be worse.

Depends - maybe missing the finals is better than being limp and never looking like it in finals and having absolutely zero to show for it in five years, I don’t know but we aren’t doing anything this campaign.

We’ll get spanked by Port, no guarantee to wing the week after and then we’ll be completely embarrassed again at the G against the Pies. This group and coaches are just too mentally weak to ever turn this stuff around- again too much proof over the past five years to say that they’re not when they’ve just never done it so expecting anything less is not going to happen.

 

[Squizz89]

Problem is we’ve had people saying the same after the loss to Port, then Dogs, Crows and finally Hawks that each respective loss will be the jolt that takes us to the next step only to again and again be saying the same thing weeks later. I think we have to accept that the coaches and/ or players are stupid if they think they ever take learnings from anything because they don’t and there is more than enough proof of that over the past five years.

Could be as simple as we just aren’t as good as we thought we are. I’ve said previously I haven’t rated us as a true contender in previous years, although with the ins this year I believed we had a real shot. Lost that confidence after the Hawks game and the fade out last night just reinforced that opinion for the time being.

Could be that we are simply a good, honest 3-5 type team, similar to Dogs early ‘10s etc.

 

[Lion_LegacyXL]

My reaction after the Jake Melksham

18

Jake Melksham

Age

33

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.2

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.8

4star

D

9.2

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

2star

G

0.8

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.8

4star

goal

 

[jonnobackpocket]

God I am sick of Fagan taking stat sheets into the press conference. As an AFL coach you should have a good enough feel for the game that you don’t need to refer to stats.

 

[JasRulz63]

I've never really bothered to watch coach's press conferences, they never really give away a lot and I just treat what they do say as marketing spin.

 

[beardancer]

What absolutely garbage.

You really need to stop.

Why?

 

[martinson]

God I am sick of Fagan taking stat sheets into the press conference. As an AFL coach you should have a good enough feel for the game that you don’t need to refer to stats.

He's more comfortable talking about stats. He's like the Kremlin on broader issues ,particularly after a loss.

The funniest moment was when he referred to the stats sheet and because Gawn had 10 clearances ' pretty good effort by a ruckman ' he was able to deduce he had a good game.

I mean seriously dude ,he obliterated us. The question should have been what steps did we take to thwart Gawn's massive dominance in the game. Was that an impossible task ?

 

[martinson]

I've never really bothered to watch coach's press conferences, they never really give away a lot and I just treat what they do say as marketing spin.

That's true.

It's just that you probably need to give the supporters a bit more than come away looking delusional.

 

[notliondown]

The lack of on field leadership is a problem in clutch moments too. Surely Andrews as the joint captain should have taken control of who would take the kick outs after the first couple by Wilmot showed he was struggling with the pressure. He was left on his own trying to work out what to do,very unfair for an 18 year old kid I thought.

The trouble for Motty and the kick in's was that when he looked up field he saw a paddock of stationary Lions players who were out zoned every single time. He had no options. He ran, he turned and in the end over and over he had to kick it down the line to a contest Oscar was always 10m behind in.

Motty's aggressive kick in's are not the issue - they are in fact an asset. The issue is when no one presents or creates options.

Oscar was so dumbstuck by Gawn last night that his field play was half the reason that those kick in's were never 50/50 contests.

 

[mpal6]

I've woken up feeling ok...until the Broncs lose today too but anyway, I actually feel like last night really has one of two potential outcomes:
1. The coaching group goes and makes the same mistakes they continually make and go back to the favourites when the team is picked next week and the season and probably Fagan becomes a likely write off

or

2. Fagan goes away and realises that last night has revealed to him what needs to change if we are to be serious contenders this year and that is become less conservative when the game gets tight and pick a team with no passengers /underdone players

If number 2 happens, this game potentially becomes the moment that makes us take the next step. The questions is, which way will Fagan go?

Fagan will go with no.1 in my opinion.

Gunston has kicked 6 and 3. He was switched to defense to be the spare and couldn't impact when the whips were cracking. I expect Gunston to get picked next week and in future unless he goes out of form again for some reason. Having him as spare is not working against the top teams but this is the card we will continue to play for this season, hoping it'll click at some point.

I was actually quite surprised we sent Gunston back and not Rayner. Rayner would've thought his way through much better in traffic but for some reason our coaching crew were obsessed with sending Gunston back. If say Rayner was playing injured which is why we couldn't send him to defense then he shouldn't have played. Both Berry and Rayner had really poor games yesterday which added to the mess of carrying unfit Zorko as well as a tired legs in Gunston.

Big O had a really poor game and couldn't handle Gawn. I don't think we could've played Fort yesterday in addition to Big O. It would've affected our running capacity even further. I actually don't know what the answer could've been on this one.

I'm a bit stoic this morning as I know some of Fagan's loyal backing of players have actually started working so he is going to continue trying it and go down with that this season.

 

[McIvor]

Could be as simple as we just aren’t as good as we thought we are. I’ve said previously I haven’t rated us as a true contender in previous years, although with the ins this year I believed we had a real shot. Lost that confidence after the Hawks game and the fade out last night just reinforced that opinion for the time being.

Could be that we are simply a good, honest 3-5 type team, similar to Dogs early ‘10s etc.

I think you are dead right.

 

[martinson]

But for all the heartache of the loss we do have the capacity to be competitive against the best sides.

It's just my view that we need to bite the bullet on selection, get players like Rayner more into the game , and ditch some of our pre rehearsed tactics in the last quarter which have been pretty much putrid all year.

And get the boys revved up to start better. We're notoriously slow starters.

 

[beardancer]

Just on the big O.
Noticed it in center bounces , Gawn goes in looking at the ball , attacking the ball,
Oscar first watches Gawn then makes an assessment. Gawn in position, wins contest.
Just attack the footy , it's a center bounce.
Thought the first quarter , this was glaring.

Absolutely, and has Oscar ever played in front at throw ins?

Every throw in was Gawn throwing his arm across Oscars chest insuring he had front position. Gawn then holds Oscar at bay behind him and wins the tap.

Oscar is far too passive to be playing in our number 1 ruck position.

 

[BRAB]

Still feeling absolutely sick and distraught today. Can’t even comprehend how we let Melbourne pull that lead back.

You could write a book on the mental lapses that this team has. I’m convinced now that when we were recruiting for personality types that would be more likely to stay at the club during 2015-2020 that we’ve accidentally selected for players that succumb to pressure in the big moments.

This kind of thing seems built into our DNA at this stage. I can’t see us keeping things together mindset wise for at least 3 games in a row in finals.

 

[Thomasno]

Adelaide Oval record this year is abominable - not confident

Almost as abominable as Port’s home final record

 

[Warwick]

Why?

Do I really need to justify why the thought that Fagan would rather play Gunston than win a game of football is garbage? Let’s just get that straight first.

 

[notliondown]

Expecting a mea culpa or volcanic eruption from Fages in a press conference is like expecting world peace - it's never going to happen. He's never going to pot shot his team whether that be players, coaches or himself so it's pointless is begging for it.

For me I think that rates as one of the worst losses I can remember.

I was just gutted when they laid on 5 unanswered goals in the first. I thought yep, we still aren't there yet.

Then we steady, we rise, we gel and we pants them for the next 2 quarters. We out run them. The repeat switches almost had me crying with joy. The maturity and calm, the sensible clear thinking, the ability to out think them and work them over.

For a moment I thought holy shit, this is the progression we have all prayed for - a big game on a big stage and we have actually learned from all the "learnings".

And then we just... well it's hard to know exactly what we did and why we did it but the result is the most gutting loss I can recall. The nature of it just kills me. Our best and worst are so far apart they can't see each other.

No single person should accept responsibility but a few need to ask serious questions of themselves if this is now how things are done at the Lions.

Rayner should be asking how an 8 possession game is acceptable especially when he was offering little defensively. Oscar needs to ask himself how he overcomes his weakness in the knees around good players - his eyes were firmly on Gawn all night not the ball. Zorko needs to ask should he have actually played? Charlie needs to ask if his demanding and sulking on field actually adds to the result or detracts.

And the coaches need to ask whether they want to play 3 talls and lose the defensive edge or 2 and actually stick to it. The time for experimenting is over.

 

[CarterS]

That 2nd and 3rd quarter was about as good as any team has played this season. We are still a couple games clear in the Top 4, we will be fine.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

He's more comfortable talking about stats. He's like the Kremlin on broader issues ,particularly after a loss.

The funniest moment was when he referred to the stats sheet and because Gawn had 10 clearances ' pretty good effort by a ruckman ' he was able to deduce he had a good game.

I mean seriously dude ,he obliterated us. The question should have been what steps did we take to thwart Gawn's massive dominance in the game. Was that an impossible task ?

Don’t tell us shit we already know- we watched it. We can look up the stats, tell us how we lost a 26 point lead in the last. Admit you stuffed it by allowing an extra at the contest. Tell us why we kicked to Gawn’s flank on kick outs every time. Want a human not a computer.

 

[FLVanLandingham]

The most frustrating thing was after the incredible melts in the first qtr, I was looking forward to the post match thread where we could all laugh at it....

Anyway, I think more positives came out of this game than negatives.

1. We showed a cohesive game plan can blow a team out of the park.

2. We also showed underdone players, and a lack of strong mental to finish off the game (or at least a strong strategy to finish off the game) let us down.

Out of those two, I think the 2nd one is easier to 'fix'.