Review Round 2, 2022 - Essendon vs. Brisbane Lions

[martinson]

My concern has always been his decision making and ordinary disposal once he has the ball in hand.

Since he started copping injuries he's actually deteriorated and not improved in that area off a relatively small sample base considering the amount of time he's spent off the park or hindered whilst on it.

A negating role would be good for him and the team for a while and over time we'll find out if it's just a loss of confidence or just him.

Either way he's really hard at it and will be a handy player. Also looking a lot fitter this year.

 

[Tom14]

People forget that Bez polled 3 Brownlow votes in consecutive games the last time he was fully fit in 2020.

I agree with concerns about his ball use, and I don’t really like him playing on the wing as he doesn’t seem to use his aerobic capacity properly.

But there are plenty who have improved their disposal over time and you can carry some who aren’t great if they bring other things. It may not be what we’d hope for but there’s plenty to work with as a player and he shouldn’t be given up on yet.

 

[mattsmob]

You'd expect a guy who's 200 centimeters to be a good reliable mark though wouldn't you, though most of his goals are either joe the gooses in the goal square, a round the corner snap or a soccer on the line. All I want is to see him lead and take strong overhead grabs that he NEEDS to do. We've got Charlie, rat, cocky and linc to do the ground stuff Joe needs to get to the contest, get in front, forget the speccys and mark or get it towards the smalls.

I feel more comfortable with Joe sticking a mark on the lead, in a pack and over a pack than anyone else on our list so I'm not sure what else you want him to do. It feels like you watch all his 'easy' touches and stuff ups then forget about all of the good stuff that he does. Even if you just forget his stats (which have been good since he's been here) the impact he has in drawing attention from the opposition does wonders for the rest of our forwardline. I doubt we see the growth from Hippy and McStay last season without Joe here, he also draws oppo defenders into a pack everytime a ball is sat on his head allowing our smalls to go to work. If you don't think he works hard off the ball then I'd suggest paying attention to where he pops up on the field during a game, all while having two guys hanging off him every contest.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

I've been saying this ever since he first got a game.

He's actually not improved in that area.

I'm just totally frustrated with all the tools he has he never imposes himself physically. Which we need him to do.

I suppose one day.

Unfortunately, he is what he is, he's not a key forward the only way I see him becoming AFL standard is to maybe become a Brent Staker type winger where he's matched up with dudes a lot smaller than him. He's athletic and his field kicking and vision is pretty decent but he definitely lacks aggression and contested marking ability for a KPF. I don't know what else the coach can do with him because he's really below average at the moment but we lack KPF depth so I guess he gets to keep his spot.

 

[mattsmob]

Unfortunately, he is what he is, he's not a key forward the only way I see him becoming AFL standard is to maybe become a Brent Staker type winger where he's matched up with dudes a lot smaller than him. He's athletic and his field kicking and vision is pretty decent but he definitely lacks aggression and contested marking ability for a KPF. I don't know what else the coach can do with him because he's really below average at the moment but we lack KPF depth so I guess he gets to keep his spot.

If this is still talking about McStay I think he’s more than proven he’s an AFL standard player. He’s had a down couple weeks but I feel like this happens every season where he’s underrated until he misses a couple games then everyone notices how big a difference it is to the team when he’s missing.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

i reckon there was a good spread of good solid performances on both sides.
answerth, linc, adams, wright and archie.

Very little love for Answerth on this thread. He played well in the doggies practice match and has been good in both games which is remarkable given the time he has been out of the game. Could we say our fitness staff work miracles (Adam, Linc, Joe and Cockatoo as examples) or is getting them right every time just run of the mill stuff or the Lions?

Are there any other injury plagued gems that we can pinch.

Answerth doesn't lose contests and I was hoping to see him as a tagger. He has been better than Rayner and Cockatoo so far this year and I am starting to think he may have a higher ceiling than both of them!!!!

 

[irel]

BF in a nutshell. Two weeks a go McStay was getting monster free agency deals and we'd be very fortunate to keep him. This week he's a hack who drops marks, can't contest, can't impose himself on a contest, does not kick goals and is lucky to be in our senior side.

 

[Nunez]

People forget that Bez polled 3 Brownlow votes in consecutive games the last time he was fully fit in 2020.

I agree with concerns about his ball use, and I don’t really like him playing on the wing as he doesn’t seem to use his aerobic capacity properly.

But there are plenty who have improved their disposal over time and you can carry some who aren’t great if they bring other things. It may not be what we’d hope for but there’s plenty to work with as a player and he shouldn’t be given up on yet.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. The guy needs consistency. If he gets to finals playing a full season and is still butchering it as much as the first few weeks, then I'd be concerned. Really though, when talking about disposals you'd be remiss to ignore the effect of not playing much would have on your disposals. You go from playing on instinct to overthinking your kicks. Once he gets settled and confident, I think his decision making will improve. Hell, his match up against Merrett would have given him a heap of confidence.

 

[beardancer]

Very little love for Answerth on this thread. He played well in the doggies practice match and has been good in both games which is remarkable given the time he has been out of the game. Could we say our fitness staff work miracles (Adam, Linc, Joe and Cockatoo as examples) or is getting them right every time just run of the mill stuff or the Lions?

Are there any other injury plagued gems that we can pinch.

Answerth doesn't lose contests and I was hoping to see him as a tagger. He has been better than Rayner and Cockatoo so far this year and I am starting to think he may have a higher ceiling than both of them!!!!

i agree, he has a manic intensity that we need and he's rarely beaten for the ball at ground level.

 

[Jivlain]

He meant Cary Grant. He's seen Wright's one man revival of North by Northwest.

Inconceivable!

 

[davemc_lions]

would not be BF if someone did not say McStay not good enough
Or Joe should do X.
or Charlie
Seems the three most likely without them there be short threads.
I just accepted Joe is Joe.. He will do 3 amazing things and then 2 stupid things.. So still above average
McStay will have good and bad days.. Depends who he gets as a defender.. With Hippy out he get a better one now.
He still does a few nice grabs a match. Next week prob kick 3 and everyone be on the Dan Train
Charlie the same good games and ones where he looks not to be there.

The difference between us and other teams we do not need our 3 best forwards to kick 2-4 goals each.
We have mids who goal and also have McCarthy who gets sometimes lost the amount of work he does even if he does not goal himself.

 

[Jim Stynes11]

Inconceivable!

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[dlanod]

Inconceivable!

 

[dizzysquizz]

Very little love for Answerth on this thread. He played well in the doggies practice match and has been good in both games which is remarkable given the time he has been out of the game. Could we say our fitness staff work miracles (Adam, Linc, Joe and Cockatoo as examples) or is getting them right every time just run of the mill stuff or the Lions?

Are there any other injury plagued gems that we can pinch.

Answerth doesn't lose contests and I was hoping to see him as a tagger. He has been better than Rayner and Cockatoo so far this year and I am starting to think he may have a higher ceiling than both of them!!!!

Absolutely, in the top 5 for me.

 

[briztoon]

 

[martinson]

If this is still talking about McStay I think he’s more than proven he’s an AFL standard player. He’s had a down couple weeks but I feel like this happens every season where he’s underrated until he misses a couple games then everyone notices how big a difference it is to the team when he’s missing.

He doesn't do a whole lot when he's there generally and when he was missing the team was playing very poorly IIRC.

I understand how structure wise we need someone of his ilk and we have no one else but he's in his 9th year now and we need more . Especially in the bigger games where physicality and strength are important.

I've never understood the love for him . If he came out and played a game or two where he was at least in the best players we could have something. It's frustrating because he looks the part on occasions. I actually think the wing mightn't be a bad option when Hipwood comes back. Whether he has the tank or not is the issue.

 

[martinson]

BF in a nutshell. Two weeks a go McStay was getting monster free agency deals and we'd be very fortunate to keep him. This week he's a hack who drops marks, can't contest, can't impose himself on a contest, does not kick goals and is lucky to be in our senior side.

Not quite correct.

I've been saying the same thing about him all along. As have others.

The last 2 weeks have been his usual games.

 

[mattsmob]

He doesn't do a whole lot when he's there generally and when he was missing the team was playing very poorly IIRC.

I understand how structure wise we need someone of his ilk and we have no one else but he's in his 9th year now and we need more . Especially in the bigger games where physicality and strength are important.

I've never understood the love for him . If he came out and played a game or two where he was at least in the best players we could have something. It's frustrating because he looks the part on occasions. I actually think the wing mightn't be a bad option when Hipwood comes back. Whether he has the tank or not is the issue.

I disagree that we need more from him, it’s the same thing with Berry where people expect probably more than they’re capable of and don’t acknowledge at the very least they’re solid AFL players, on top of that McStay has had periods during games where he’s been dominant and looks like taking a grab everytime the ball is in the air. Both of those guys do a lot of the dirty work and probably two of the hardest workers on game day. With Hipwood and Daniher as the main two talls I personally think McStay is the perfect foil for them and was shown to be a pretty dominant set up last season and he was a part of that.
IMO he’s nowhere close to being dropped and nor should he be.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

McStay showed late last year a consistent attack on the contest.

Have a look at the second quarters of our first two elimination final losses and you will see multiple times he pulls out rather than just going for it.

Late last year he started to throw himself in with gay abandon and reminded me of Royce Hart a few times, floating across the pack marking the ball.

He has always had an obvious big upside but we have only seen it one patch of games. The coaches have a job to do here if we want a flag. He is a big part of the puzzle.

 

[dlanod]

Not quite correct.

I've been saying the same thing about him all along. As have others.

The last 2 weeks have been his usual games.

Very relevant so I'll piggybacking this...

Those of us who rate him were posting more often over the offseason because we saw what happened when we tried to replace him in the finals.

Now those of us who don't rate him are posting more often because he's had a few crap games.

If he's leading the Coleman in three weeks, it'll switch again.

Welcome to the Internet.

 

[martinson]

I disagree that we need more from him, it’s the same thing with Berry where people expect probably more than they’re capable of and don’t acknowledge at the very least they’re solid AFL players, on top of that McStay has had periods during games where he’s been dominant and looks like taking a grab everytime the ball is in the air. Both of those guys do a lot of the dirty work and probably two of the hardest workers on game day. With Hipwood and Daniher as the main two talls I personally think McStay is the perfect foil for them and was shown to be a pretty dominant set up last season and he was a part of that.
IMO he’s nowhere close to being dropped and nor should he be.

He averages just over 5 kicks a game. The most kicks he's ever had in any game is 11. Not flash stats for a utility. I've yet to see periods in games where he's been 'dominant'. But what I would like to see is a consistent performance throughout a game which I've seen maybe 2 or 3 times.

I also don't see the 'dirty work' he does . What is that exactly ? He's not what you'd call a ferocious tackler. Or an in and under get it out and handball. Or cover a lot of ground and get it. Or protect the smaller players. To any extent that's noticeable.

My form is to not knock players but he I just don't get. We keep persisting and people here seem to love him for some reason . I think his record is ordinary . Which is why he frustrates me because he's an exceptional field kick ,takes a solid grab when it sticks and has the perfect build to cruise around and have a physical impact on games.

I'm not suggesting drop him looking at what I saw of the ressies last week. Hopefully find a way of firing him up . Last year was his best year since he's been at the club which was helped by Daniher's arrival. He needs to at least maintain that.

 

[martinson]

McStay showed late last year a consistent attack on the contest.

Have a look at the second quarters of our first two elimination final losses and you will see multiple times he pulls out rather than just going for it.

Late last year he started to throw himself in with gay abandon and reminded me of Royce Hart a few times, floating across the pack marking the ball.

He has always had an obvious big upside but we have only seen it one patch of games. The coaches have a job to do here if we want a flag. He is a big part of the puzzle.

Exactly. Those finals games stick in my head.

 

[martinson]

Very relevant so I'll piggybacking this...

Those of us who rate him were posting more often over the offseason because we saw what happened when we tried to replace him in the finals.

Now those of us who don't rate him are posting more often because he's had a few crap games.

If he's leading the Coleman in three weeks, it'll switch again.

Welcome to the Internet.

But Hipwood was out as well. Payne got knocked out of the game. Andrews was on one leg

We didn't falter because he was missing. We were pretty much banged up because our big dogs weren't able to play.

Granted we would've beaten the dogs if he was there.

 

[Tom14]

Very relevant so I'll piggybacking this...

Those of us who rate him were posting more often over the offseason because we saw what happened when we tried to replace him in the finals.

Now those of us who don't rate him are posting more often because he's had a few crap games.

If he's leading the Coleman in three weeks, it'll switch again.

Welcome to the Internet.

He kicked 16 in the last 6 HA games of 2021 after Hippy went out and averaged 3 contested marks per game as well. The 2.66 goals per game in that period would have been the fourth best average goals per game of any player last year, behind McKay, Buddy and Walker. Clearly, its ridiculous to extrapolate a 6 game period and make that comparison, but the key point is that he massively stepped up when we lost Hippy. That he had that run of form when Hippy was out shows his capabilities, particularly given that even with Eric out, he's still at best the third option in the forward line. When Hippy is back, he's even further down the pecking order.

We desperately missed him in both finals - we probably had no shot without him against the dees anyway, but their tall backs ran riot in that game and we were left with the bomb it to charlie and hope the defender drops it offense, which is not how we want to play. We'd absolutely have beaten the dogs with him in there and anyone who suggests that Payne could have done the job he did is joking.

What I see right now is him being fumbly and dropping some marks, and clearly has not had the best couple of games. But he was good in the practice match and very damaging in the AAMI game against the dogs, so I expect he'll come good soon.

 

[mattsmob]

He averages just over 5 kicks a game. The most kicks he's ever had in any game is 11. Not flash stats for a utility. I've yet to see periods in games where he's been 'dominant'. But what I would like to see is a consistent performance throughout a game which I've seen maybe 2 or 3 times.

I also don't see the 'dirty work' he does . What is that exactly ? He's not what you'd call a ferocious tackler. Or an in and under get it out and handball. Or cover a lot of ground and get it. Or protect the smaller players. To any extent that's noticeable.

My form is to not knock players but he I just don't get. We keep persisting and people here seem to love him for some reason . I think his record is ordinary . Which is why he frustrates me because he's an exceptional field kick ,takes a solid grab when it sticks and has the perfect build to cruise around and have a physical impact on games.

I'm not suggesting drop him looking at what I saw of the ressies last week. Hopefully find a way of firing him up . Last year was his best year since he's been at the club which was helped by Daniher's arrival. He needs to at least maintain that.

First game that comes to mind is the one against Port where I thought he looked pretty dominant taking pack marks and kicking goals.
In my opinion he brings the ball to ground better than any of our other forwards, he's mobile and committed enough to pressure once the ball hits the ground and he's generally along with Daniher always available as a bail out kick for the defenders. Add that to the positives you've mentioned and I see a guy that should not only should be persisted with but is an important part of the team and structure until someone is good enough to replace him which I can't see happening for a long while.
He has had a poor start to the season but I'm comfortable saying that this is not his normal output and I'd expect it to improve quite dramatically going forward.