Autopsy Round 2, 2023: Sydney torch Hawthorn

[Dewnior]

Do people really think Mitchell is not telling our players to defend???

I think people are questioning the way he is telling them

 

[mustang]

Losing sucks, so I completely understand any passionate supporter being deflated by today's result. But we are very early into a rebuild which will take time to reap the rewards.

Cast your mind back to Round 13, 2005. An inexperienced Hawks team travelled to Adelaide to play against the reigning Premiers, Port Adelaide. That game turned into a serious Bully Beatdown. In the end we lost by 117 points, despite fielding 12 future premiership players.

There's a fair amount of young talent on our list, they will need to gain experience and develop synergy over time. Things are never as gloomy as they seem. Be patient.

Yeah I agree but AC worked on a showing the kids how to defend first it wasn’t till around 2007 /08 till we saw the Clarko cluster.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

One of many things that has frustrated me this season, and last season too, is Sicily and his slow play of the ball. He’s an elite kick, both in terms of accuracy and length.
He’s been outstanding for us thus far
BUT
If our game plan has been to move the footy quicker and use the corridor more, I feel he’s not really doing that, which as now captain, is an issue.
Regularly has options, but too often doesn’t take them and goes back to kicking down the line.
Now, he’s amongst the least of our issues, but it’s just been a cause of frustration

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Surprised this post hasn't been deleted, Strapping Young Lad having kittens.

Nah, pretty sure no one else has their account riding on Reeves playing out his career at Box Hill.

 

[Gaborone]

I just want to say I'm kind of sick of the "cutting too deep" rhetoric. Whilst it makes for a convenient story to pin blame on people, it ignores the actual complexities of how we actually lost the last two weeks.

We lost 3 first team players. Gunston was gone, there was no changing that. The other two were Mitch and JOM. We were definitely aiming to trade out Mitch, so really, only contentious trade was JOM. I really doubt either or both those two changes today's result. The only real glaring error in hindsight, was probably not retaining Shiels for another season.

The reality is - our list, regardless of the losses last year, was not amazing.

But what I keep seeing, particularly with all the AFL "journalists", is they just lump all the lost players in one heap, and just go - "LOOK THEY CUT TOO MANY, SEE!". Yet no journo actually tries to analyse the tactics of the game and how systems broke down. Compare that to something like Tifo Football who analyse football (soccer) games in Europe, who look at games purely from a data/analytics perspective.

Mitchell is a good coach - he showed it at the Eagles, and showed it last year, where we arguably overperformed for our list. I'd probably say the break down of system is contributed to by a number of factors:

• Our forward line has been decimated with Gunston gone, Jeka/Lewis injured - means Kozzie goes from taking the 2nd/3rd defender to 1st.
• We have a new mid & ruck mix, meaning we're not going to be in sync against sides which have had mid combinations tgoether for years
• Even our coaching/backroom & board compositions are all new, so there is a lot of unsettling factors at play early.

And more than anything, it's just clear we're a bit out of form and confidence. Three weeks ago, we played our brand of footy well against Pies in pre-season. We can play it, it's just we've got in our own heads.

One thing I will say, is do not listen to the rhetoric provided by Damien Barrett and all his echos/parrots. This storyline of "cutting too deep" was started by him, and overlooks much of what actually is at play. But for "Damo" - never lets facts stand in the way of a good story.

Well, I for one agree with Barrett ( a first). The blind can't lead the blind. Clubs transition using experienced players to build the system and understanding. Even Clarko when he first came to Hawthorn, retained hard nuts to help with the re-build

 

[almuz]

What happened to our ball movement and overlap? We are playing so slow - gotta be a mindset thing surely.

Getting belted by 80 points, the coaches have to make the boys feel like they have nothing to lose & can take the game on.

 

[A Diakos]

Well done on the laziest analysis and comment seen on BF

it is

but also true

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[TylerDurden]

What happened to our ball movement and overlap? We are playing so slow - gotta be a mindset thing surely.

Getting belted by 80 points, the coaches have to make the boys feel like they have nothing to lose & can take the game on.

Agree. Was better viewing last week. At least it looked like we could score when we had the footy.

Better defensive effort was promised. Yet we leaked a 13 unanswered goal avalanche.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Agree. Was better viewing last week. At least it looked like we could score when we had the footy.

Better defensive effort was promised. Yet we leaked a 13 unanswered goal avalanche.

Sam touched on this. We got a much stronger showing in the middle, but we broke down at either end.

Finger in the dyke kinda stuff.

 

[Lickmesocks]

The most telling thing for me, that nobody has mentioned, is that we are carrying our senior players.

Frost and Impey should be playing at BH, but can't due to being promoted as leaders.

Breust has been bog average.

Sicily and Hardwick have lowered their colours.

CJ is down on confidence.

The kids can't lift to pick up the slack.
Hence the beltings will come thick and fast, until the senior guys pull their finger out and show some form and some *ing leadership!!

This is a really good honest assessment.

Leadership is missing badly.

 

[SA HAWK]

We did lose to a pretty damn talented side today let’s not forget that.

Swans will make plenty of teams look bad this season.

 

[randallbone]

Where do you see Hawks after 6 games this year? 0-6? 3-3? 2-4? None in this draw will be considered 'easy' games for a developing list. Lewis would make some difference, but just need to find avenue to goal in his absence. Initially talking 5 wins for the year would be a good outcome, but need to continue to improve.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

We did lose to a pretty damn talented side today let’s not forget that.

Swans will make plenty of teams look bad this season.

They are a young team too. They will be contending for a few years.

 

[triangulation_squared]

It would be great to see some positional changes that at least seeks to put a game winning score together in the absence of Mitchell Lewis

2

Mitchell Lewis

Age

26

Ht

199cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.5

2star

K

5.9

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.3

3star

G

1.2

4star

D

4.3

1star

K

2.8

1star

HB

1.5

1star

M

0.8

1star

T

0.3

1star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.6

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.6

3star

.

I'm not sure how you get a winning score with this team however 4 goals is simply not trying hard enough.
-It could be time to revisit Frosty or Sicily forward in place of Kossie
-Kossie or DGB back
-Ramsden in for Reeves
-Scrim back and CJ to a wing, and Impey rested
-Getting games into Long, Hustlewait, Butler and Brocky
-Potentially review the support coaches at this stage as well - adding a Luke Hodge type in as an assistant would be extremely helpful.

 

[chopflop]

I

Reeves was clearly hurt from that knock in the first quarter, only played 34% of game time despite beign subbed out late in the third.

Thought this also. I noticed a significant shift in intent from him before that. He really attacked aerial contests with a bit of vigor.

 

[theiaofseed]

I

Thought this also. I noticed a significant shift in intent from him before that. He really attacked aerial contests with a bit of vigor.

I don't think he touched the ball again either, he started really well with his presence around the ground.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Question:

If someone had of asked you a month ago if you'd take a loss to the Swans in Round 2 with 4 less inside 50's and 15 less contested possessions , but we'd have Day get 26 disposals and 7 clearances, Newcombe get 26 and 5, Worpel 22 and 6 with Ward and MacKenzie also getting games in the middle..... Would you have taken that?

 

[OnTheRocks]

Question:

If someone had of asked you a month ago if you'd take a loss to the Swans in Round 2 with 4 less inside 50's and 15 less contested possessions , but we'd have Day get 26 disposals and 7 clearances, Newcombe get 26 and 5, Worpel 22 and 6 with Ward and MacKenzie also getting games in the middle..... Would you have taken that?

I think I would but I also would think the margin would be a lot closer than 81

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think I would but I also would think the margin would be a lot closer than 81

Yeah, 4.13 certainly didn’t help our cause.

 

[MasterSamurai]

81 points can't be acceptable, surely!!? No sugar coating this, players did a bit of talking about giving better stronger effort yet lost all cohesion when Opposition moved the ball in play. Maybe others ok with trouncings and I'm ok with a few bad losses and a bottom four finish but the first two weeks are a train wreck .

 

[theiaofseed]

81 points can't be acceptable, surely!!? No sugar coating this, players did a bit of talking about giving better stronger effort yet lost all cohesion when Opposition moved the ball in play. Maybe others ok with trouncings and I'm ok with a few bad losses and a bottom four finish but the first two weeks are a train wreck .

We played one of the best teams if not the best team on their home deck, if we take our chances which would normally happen we wont kick 4.13 often then it was a fine game. It's only annoying due to how easily Swans transitioned out of defense if we can limit those transitions we are well on our way.

 

[MasterSamurai]

We played one of the best teams if not the best team on their home deck, if we take our chances which would normally happen we wont kick 4.13 often then it was a fine game. It's only annoying due to how easily Swans transitioned out of defense if we can limit those transitions we are well on our way.

That's all fine and good but, If opposition is moving the ball with that ease every week , then that has to be work ethic/attitude!! Or lack thereof, particularly in the two way running that this game Is a non negotiable.

 

[H00t]

Small sample size but Worps is 4th for contested possessions, 5th for centre clearances and 10th for overall clearances in the league. Hopefully he can continue on with his good start.

 

[hawkman]

Agree. Was better viewing last week. At least it looked like we could score when we had the footy.

Better defensive effort was promised. Yet we leaked a 13 unanswered goal avalanche.

If you aren't scoring a goal for 3 quarters you are likely facing a large number of goals in a row