Autopsy Round 2, 2023: Sydney torch Hawthorn

[Strapping Young Lad]

Everyone should listen to Sam’s presser, it’s a good listen.

He talks about how we’ve had some improvement in the middle, but have issues breaking down at either end particularly with kicking a score, and also spoke about the players being aware that they had their moments that they let themselves down in that could’ve impacted the direction of the game.

Mitchell: “We were our own worst enemy”

Hawthorn Coach Sam Mitchell says his side struggled to make the most of their chances after being outclassed by an experienced Sydney outfit at the SCG on Sunday.

www.hawthornfc.com.au

 

[Stottzy]

Sam Mitchell needs to come out and do a Paul Keating.

"This is the rebuild we had to have"

Most of us on here thought pre to the year we were going to be bottom 4ish. With that comes bad loses. Let's just ride it out and enjoy the progression when it comes....... and our revenge to mouthy journos and Bombers/Cats supporters when we're kings again.

 

[Yardie]

I love DGB but yeh I couldn’t believe that McDonald was looking at sliding to us. So close but so far away ..

If North had done their job properly and made Sydney pay then he would have been available.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

I'm not sure I get the handling of Hardwick this year so far. Two games, starts in defence moved to forward line after half time. If he's a forward, then play him there. Otherwise let him stay in defence. If he's being moved forward to help set up the forwards, then play him there from the start.
If he's there to provide pressure, then pick a pressure forward instead and leave him stay in defence.

Day, Worpel, Newcombe all battled hard.
I thought McDonald did some good things too.

Forward line provided little pressure, defence got lost far too often.

On to next week

 

[Buttonsticher]

Reckon Meek should be solo ruck. CJ outside mid. Running towards the ball carrier might confuse the opposition and supporters alike. I don't drink, but I'm thinking about it.

 

[joeyhawker]

So much panic here!!!! We're level with the reigning premiers for wins and losses

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gut Runner]

I agree they are ahead in their rebuild, that's not in dispute. They've had a few extra years and top picks over us. That's not the issue.

Do you believe that Clarkson is implementing anything that Rhys Shaw and David Noble had put in place from 2019 to date?

The obvious answer is no, he is not.

I understand completely that the gameplan is not going to be implemented overnight. But have you seen any semblance of a plan at all so far?

My main issue is the terrible positioning of our backline in particular. We are not playing in a grid and intercepting, nor are we marking our opponents.

Clarko has got something worked out where a first gamer, playing in an entirely new position, is being freed up and dominating, whilst not sacrificing defensively. We seem to have no plan in terms of both defending and also moving the ball out of the backline. Mitchell has had two preseasons and a full season of games to work on our defensive structure. What was our strength has become a glaring weakness.

A good spine makes a hell of a difference to on field structure.

Plus when you turn the ball over at half back, no structure is going to save you.

 

[Jazzfan]

I'm not sure I get the handling of Hardwick this year so far. Two games, starts in defence moved to forward line after half time. If he's a forward, then play him there. Otherwise let him stay in defence. If he's being moved forward to help set up the forwards, then play him there from the start.
If he's there to provide pressure, then pick a pressure forward instead and leave him stay in defence.

Day, Worpel, Newcombe all battled hard.
I thought McDonald did some good things too.

Forward line provided little pressure, defence got lost far too often.

On to next week

He actually started off the bench rd one.

I agree, I'm not sure what's up there.

 

[xmarksthespot]

Tough day at the office. Focusing on the positives here:
Day - As others have said, was terrific. Tried hard all day, and seven clearances and 76% efficiency is a great return for someone moving into a new role. A real future here
Worpol - Continuing the climb back up to what we know he can achieve. Some challenging disposal under pressure, but a big net positive in my book.
Moore - Along with Day, set the standard for what's required from a leader. Heard a stat early in the match that he was involved in six of our first twelve scores. Says it all.
Amon - Can definitely see why we got him over. Class all round. Kicking was sublime.
Nash - Enjoyed his presence around the ground. Some of his play was, dare I say, 'unscociable'. Not asking for that all game, but it was nice to see when we were getting a little bullied around the ball.

I'm sure there are other positives that I haven't covered, but it's not all doom and gloom from my perspective.

I'm choosing to focus on these as a fan , in a year that's going to be tough on that scoreboard at times.

Go Hawks.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[macdaddio]

So much panic here!!!! We're level with the reigning premiers for wins and losses

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Only thing keeping my enthusiasm for this season is seeing the Dogs second last with 52%.
Cats will start their winning run next week so that enjoyment won’t last.

 

[mknaven]

Bramble was invisible to start the game before suddenly emerging. If his opponent also invisible, not a bad thing.

CJ has had a poor start to the season. As a reset, I like the idea of starting him deep back with a blanketing job and letting him run fwd to the ball as needed, but something needs to happen there rather than wait n see.
We are not clean at all. Far too much fumbling etc all over the ground.
I think this is one of the issues with young teams. Too many players feeling the pressure in the contest and failing to stand tall cos they're clenching.

Keen to get scrimmers back.

Suns got big Levi for a bargain last year. We should be on the hunt for something similar at years end, cos kpf help for M Lewis looks a mile away unless Ramma can come in. I think we could really benefit from a cheap end of career kpf option.... Can't think of any that'd be available though

 

[Gut Runner]

Need to land Himmelberg as a FA. At least can help with structure if we lose a KPF to injury.

 

[Hawksboy72]

Need to land Himmelberg as a FA. At least can help with structure if we lose a KPF to injury.

Agree 500% with this.

 

[TylerDurden]

The most telling thing for me, that nobody has mentioned, is that we are carrying our senior players.

Frost and Impey should be playing at BH, but can't due to being promoted as leaders.

Breust has been bog average.

Sicily and Hardwick have lowered their colours.

CJ is down on confidence.

The kids can't lift to pick up the slack.
Hence the beltings will come thick and fast, until the senior guys pull their finger out and show some form and some flipping leadership!!

 

[SJT76]

The other thing that struck me watching this is how exposed we are when we turn it over - there always seem to be 2-3 players goal side of us with clear space to run through. We must concede scores on the highest percentage of turnovers in the league.

On the other hand, when we turn the opposition over, we usually end up being held up.

I think this is what is frustrating me most so far

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

The other thing that struck me watching this is how exposed we are when we turn it over - there always seem to be 2-3 players goal side of us with clear space to run through. We must concede scores on the highest percentage of turnovers in the league.

On the other hand, when we turn the opposition over, we usually end up being held up.

I think this is what is frustrating me most so far

This was very noticeable pre season even in the intra playing against each other. There is a breakdown with the defensive game plan and our players seem to be playing (not very well) a lot of man on man defence players like Sicily and CJ are getting led to the ball a lot.

I don’t think it’s a fitness issue. Our defending of an opposition transition is deplorable. This has happened 4 games in a row and Sam has to do something about it.

 

[rei154]

A lot of players lacking confidence currently, a lot of players dropping what they shouldn't.

Though the scoreline is dire, I don't think it's as desperate as people make it out.

Fix up our connection between defenders and mids, then mids with forwards and things will look nicer.
The messaging all off season has been that come the second half of the year we will look a lot better, and I think that that will eventuate.

 

[Tuck In]

It's hard to be positive after that and don't want to come across all Brendon Bolton and green shoots but:

We moved Mitchell and OMeara to give Day, Worple, Duke, Ward time and space and that beginning to show something.

The defence needs to go back to last year, both in structure and personnel as that was the stone to build from.

Meek looks like he is slowly being what we want but Reeves doesn't look like he's confident. Needs to understand if it's form or trust in his body.

Forward needs to bring pressure and practice kicking at goal. Despite everything we have squandered chances so making them is a start.

Small steps on a long journey.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I agree they are ahead in their rebuild, that's not in dispute. They've had a few extra years and top picks over us. That's not the issue.

Do you believe that Clarkson is implementing anything that Rhys Shaw and David Noble had put in place from 2019 to date?

The obvious answer is no, he is not.

I understand completely that the gameplan is not going to be implemented overnight. But have you seen any semblance of a plan at all so far?

My main issue is the terrible positioning of our backline in particular. We are not playing in a grid and intercepting, nor are we marking our opponents.

Clarko has got something worked out where a first gamer, playing in an entirely new position, is being freed up and dominating, whilst not sacrificing defensively. We seem to have no plan in terms of both defending and also moving the ball out of the backline. Mitchell has had two preseasons and a full season of games to work on our defensive structure. What was our strength has become a glaring weakness.

Mate your thoughts on Clarkson remind me of relatively old Australian movie called the man from snowy river 2.

I would like to regurgitate a famous line from that movie "Don't forget who he is"

 

[Gut Runner]

Well Done Lloyd Meek - Game high 8 tackles.

 

[almuz]

Well Done Lloyd Meek - Game high 8 tackles.

My only negative was he had a chance to smash a Swans player going for an intercept mark at half forward in the second quarter. Maybe he was a fraction late to react but other than that, throw his weight around well.

 

[Charchi]

I don’t think in 47 years of supporting the Hawks have i ever seen a more uncompetitive team, not in the Crawshay years or the first years of Clarkson. We are being let down badly by our senior players with so many unforced errors, lack of intensity, broken tackles, dropped marks and undiscipline.
We will have our lowest ever finish and most probably finish last with a percentage barely over 50%.
All great teams are built on defence not on some notion that all out attack, especially when you skill level is so poor, will lead us to the promised land.

 

[A Diakos]

I just want to say I'm kind of sick of the "cutting too deep" rhetoric. Whilst it makes for a convenient story to pin blame on people, it ignores the actual complexities of how we actually lost the last two weeks.

We lost 3 first team players. Gunston was gone, there was no changing that. The other two were Mitch and JOM. We were definitely aiming to trade out Mitch, so really, only contentious trade was JOM. I really doubt either or both those two changes today's result. The only real glaring error in hindsight, was probably not retaining Shiels for another season.

The reality is - our list, regardless of the losses last year, was not amazing.

But what I keep seeing, particularly with all the AFL "journalists", is they just lump all the lost players in one heap, and just go - "LOOK THEY CUT TOO MANY, SEE!". Yet no journo actually tries to analyse the tactics of the game and how systems broke down. Compare that to something like Tifo Football who analyse football (soccer) games in Europe, who look at games purely from a data/analytics perspective.

Mitchell is a good coach - he showed it at the Eagles, and showed it last year, where we arguably overperformed for our list. I'd probably say the break down of system is contributed to by a number of factors:

• Our forward line has been decimated with Gunston gone, Jeka/Lewis injured - means Kozzie goes from taking the 2nd/3rd defender to 1st.
• We have a new mid & ruck mix, meaning we're not going to be in sync against sides which have had mid combinations tgoether for years
• Even our coaching/backroom & board compositions are all new, so there is a lot of unsettling factors at play early.

And more than anything, it's just clear we're a bit out of form and confidence. Three weeks ago, we played our brand of footy well against Pies in pre-season. We can play it, it's just we've got in our own heads.

One thing I will say, is do not listen to the rhetoric provided by Damien Barrett and all his echos/parrots. This storyline of "cutting too deep" was started by him, and overlooks much of what actually is at play. But for "Damo" - never lets facts stand in the way of a good story.

“Mitchell is a good coach “

That is yet to be determined

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I don’t think in 47 years of supporting the Hawks have i ever seen a more uncompetitive team, not in the Crawshay years or the first years of Clarkson. We are being let down badly by our senior players with so many unforced errors, lack of intensity, broken tackles, dropped marks and undiscipline.
We will have our lowest ever finish and most probably finish last with a percentage barely over 50%.
All great teams are built on defence not on some notion that all out attack, especially when you skill level is so poor, will lead us to the promised land.

I'm sorry but did you just have a subtle crack at my namestake, the great white hope of mid 1990s Hawks supporters?

Why bring poor old Simon into this mess

 

[Gut Runner]

Now that our defenders are required to go 1 on 1 (much like how Richmond defend) they are exposed.

Do people really think Mitchell is not telling our players to defend???