Autopsy Round 2, 2023: Sydney torch Hawthorn

[Strapping Young Lad]

I know we are looking for any positive we can find but an 80 point loss and kicking 4 goals in perfect conditions, no I wouldn’t take that.

Forget the scoreboard. Look at the development of that midfield.

Sam and the footy dept made it clear all summer that this season would not be judged on wins and losses.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

The midfield has potential to be good in a few years time I agree.

The KPP outside of an injury prone Mitch Lewis are the biggest concern, not sure I've seen a worse spine than the current Hawks spine to begin a season.

 

[Coathanger]

Once the final siren has sounded,you only need to say quietly to yourself..
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HARLEY REID.

 

[theiaofseed]

Forget the scoreboard. Look at the development of that midfield.

Sam and the footy dept made it clear all summer that this season would not be judged on wins and losses.

Yea but man that's like only the clubs internal expectation so like whatever

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Yeah people shouldn't judge us on wins or losses, but despite the list gutting you'd still probably expect a more competitive team than a percentage of 42 2 games in.

 

[Billyc]

Forget the scoreboard. Look at the development of that midfield.

Sam and the footy dept made it clear all summer that this season would not be judged on wins and losses.

Midfield needs to judged on ball use and defensive efforts, not just ball winning though. Ball winning was ok yesterday but ball use and defending through the middle was terrible.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Midfield needs to judged on ball use and defensive efforts, not just ball winning though. Ball winning was ok yesterday but ball use and defending through the middle was terrible.

The way Sydney moved the ball through the middle of the ground at times was laughable tbh.

 

[theiaofseed]

Yeah people shouldn't judge us on wins or losses, but despite the list gutting you'd still probably expect a more competitive team than a percentage of 42 2 games in.

Not that far off our 2017 start but that team also had Mitchell and O'merea......

Round 3: Gold Coast 21.13 (139) def. Hawthorn 7.11 (53)
Round 4: Hawthorn 6.12 (48) def. by Geelong 20.14 (134)
Round 6: Hawthorn 8.7 (55) def. by St Kilda 19.16 (130


This is from a team that expected to win the GF

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Not that far off our 2017 start but that team also had Mitchell and O'merea......

Didn't we only lose the first 2 by around 4-5 goals in 2017 ? My memory has the big losses being in Rounds 3,4 and 6.

 

[theiaofseed]

Didn't we only lose the first 2 by around 4-5 goals in 2017 ? My memory has the big losses being in Rounds 3,4 and 6.

Which is more embarrassing a team that loaded up with 2 high priced recruits with 20 odd premiership players in the team getting rolled by the Suns to the tune of 15 goals or the youngest team in the AFL getting thumped by last years Grand Finalist on their home deck by 15 goals.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Which is more embarrassing a team that loaded up with 2 high priced recruits with 20 odd premiership players in the team getting rolled by the Suns to the tune of 15 goals or the youngest team in the AFL getting thumped by last years Grand Finalist on their home deck by 15 goals.

You know what's scary

Average age of Sydney's 22 was 24 years 9 months and Hawks 24 years 3 months.

Sydney are a bloody young side, huge future ahead.

And yeah the 2017 loss to the Suns in Round 3 was a joke, doesn't make our start to the year this season ok though.

 

[Elhawko]

Tough watch especially at 5am. Backline which was our strength doesn’t feel that way anymore. Would only have hardwick (who needs to be settled) and Sicily as locks, despite both being poor today. Blanck I think will be ok, CJ and bramble can’t defend so can’t have both there and one needs to go elsewhere, impey looked great pre season but now not sure, frost poor 2 weeks in a row. Time for DGB and maybe not yet but keen to see Tank and Seamus get games before mid season. Midfield happy enough feel like newk Ward frenchy worpel nash day is a solid and young 6. Amon and Morrison decent wings. Forward line is an absolute need again only see Lewis and Moore as locks. A fan of CMac as well. Rucks we solved our depth problem but seem to have 3 average rucks and ramsden who I am quietly bullish on. We need to find a way to become more competitive - not just for the players mental well being (ours too), but no free agent except for those prioritising cash would come to us performing like this.

So much panic here!!!! We're level with the reigning premiers for wins and losses

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Yeah people shouldn't judge us on wins or losses, but despite the list gutting you'd still probably expect a more competitive team than a percentage of 42 2 games in.

I just hope that the board and the coaching staff ( as well as us as supporters) don’t panic at these (really bad!) results and rush into a free agency spending spree at the end of the year in an attempt to shore up our performances. I am not sure I can think of any struggling team that successfully turned its fortunes around by bringing in FAs. As someone posted earlier we might only be able to attract players looking for a payday the way we are going at the moment, when the FA moves that tend to work out best involve players going to already- good clubs looking for success. These losses are not fatal to our chances of becoming successful again in a few years but blowing our war chest on the first available ‘name’ players just might be.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I just hope that the board and the coaching staff ( as well as us as supporters) don’t panic at these (really bad!) results and rush into a free agency spending spree at the end of the year in an attempt to shore up our performances. I am not sure I can think of any struggling team that successfully turned its fortunes around by bringing in FAs. As someone posted earlier we might only be able to attract players looking for a payday the way we are going at the moment, when the FA moves that tend to work out best involve players going to already- good clubs looking for success. These losses are not fatal to our chances of becoming successful again in a few years but blowing our war chest on the first available ‘name’ players just might be.

Yep we have to stay the course, this is a 3-5 year rebuild job, one difference in opinion I have with Mitchell is, I think he believes we have more of our next premiership team already on the list than I think.

 

[Mercy Seat]

and if we didn't in the third quarter it would'nt have blown out either, fun game to play.

Dude, cmon.

 

[Mercy Seat]

You know what's scary

Average age of Sydney's 22 was 24 years 9 months and Hawks 24 years 3 months.

Sydney are a bloody young side, huge future ahead.

And yeah the 2017 loss to the Suns in Round 3 was a joke, doesn't make our start to the year this season ok though.

Sydney will be a force over the next 5 years. They’ve completed cleaned up with the Academy and a few other things falling their way.

But those numbers are surprising.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I really feel for Mitchell and Hawthorn because I (and I'm sure others) know exactly what Mitchell has planned but the footy media landscape doesn't allow for Hawthorn to be upfront and honest about their plans.

Sam Mitchell is smart

He knows Hawthorn aren't winning a flag anytime too soon. He also knows Tasmania are coming.

I would bet good money that Mitchell wants to spend the next few years racking up Top 5 picks in preparation for when Tasmania come in and destroy the draft for a few years and while the rest of us struggle to pick up decent young talent, Hawthorn's stockpile of Top 5 picks will all be in the 21-25 age range and either in their prime or entering their prime.

So while the rest of us struggle, Hawthorn will be absolutely flying and by the time a few of the older players are making their way out, the draft will have normalised and regular services can resume.

In the meantime, Mitchell will be doing what Clarko did, which is slowly getting these kids to learn to play the way they plan to be playing when they're competing for finals.

The key is going to be how patient can Hawthorn supporters be waiting for this to come to fruition. Hopefully, given the sheer volume of success you've seen over the last 20 years, Sam will get all your patience because I suspect it will be worth the wait.

 

[theiaofseed]

You know what's scary

Average age of Sydney's 22 was 24 years 9 months and Hawks 24 years 3 months.

Sydney are a bloody young side, huge future ahead.

And yeah the 2017 loss to the Suns in Round 3 was a joke, doesn't make our start to the year this season ok though.

2 years behind in development. Look at there list balance to our lope sided youth.

 

[eldorado]

I would bet good money that Mitchell wants to spend the next few years racking up Top 5 picks

I would take that money every day.

No way does he not want to improve ladder position as soon as possible.

Wanting to be shit for as long as possible for picks is loser thinking, beloved by St Kilda and Melbourne football clubs, and pea-hearted squibs on Big Footy. Not sam Mitchell.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

I would take that money every day.

No way does he not want to improve ladder position as soon as possible.

Wanting to be s**t for as long as possible for picks is loser thinking, beloved by St Kilda and Melbourne football clubs, and pea-hearted squibs on Big Footy. Not sam Mitchell.

He won't have much choice but to take top 5 picks. We are shit and Sam knows this is what is required.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Midfield needs to judged on ball use and defensive efforts, not just ball winning though. Ball winning was ok yesterday but ball use and defending through the middle was terrible.

It’s very hard to quantify where the breakdown is without sitting in the review with the players and coaches.

On face value the new midfield is coming along quite well in that it’s not being belted at the stoppages, but there’s clearly other things that are a work in progress.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

You know what's scary

Average age of Sydney's 22 was 24 years 9 months and Hawks 24 years 3 months.

Sydney are a bloody young side, huge future ahead.

And yeah the 2017 loss to the Suns in Round 3 was a joke, doesn't make our start to the year this season ok though.

True but just remember this list is littered with academy picks gifted to the $wans, you are comparing exotic expensive fruits with granny smith apples atm

 

[burner1]

It’s very hard to quantify where the breakdown is without sitting in the review with the players and coaches.

On face value the new midfield is coming along quite well in that it’s not being belted at the stoppages, but there’s clearly other things that are a work in progress.

Were we putting extra numbers around the ball/contest? Couldn’t tell with the tv coverage. But as soon as ball got into space they torched us. And when we got the ball we couldn’t get any run going (despite supposedly aggressive set ups). Can’t really recall our mids getting back to help our defence - may have been by design (or our zone breaking down too quick) or due to work rate.

A heap for the coaches and players to work through. As poor as our forward line and defence has looked some blame has to sit with midfield. The ball is coming into our defence at speed and under limited pressure + rarely into our f50 in a way that provides 1-on-1 opps for forwards.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I would take that money every day.

No way does he not want to improve ladder position as soon as possible.

Wanting to be s**t for as long as possible for picks is loser thinking, beloved by St Kilda and Melbourne football clubs, and pea-hearted squibs on Big Footy. Not sam Mitchell.

Reckon you're looking at it wrong

It's not about wanting to suck. It's about realising you're not in contention and doing what's best for the football club long term.

Did you seriously not see what was happening when Sam offloaded literally every shred of experience you had outside Sicily?

Why sit there middling around the middle of the ladder (at best) for the next 2-3 years only to then have Tasmania come in and absolutely take away any chance you have of gaining any decent talent which would then relegate you to the bottom of the ladder for the foreseeable future? It's madness.

It's not that Mitchell is actively trying to lose. I'm sure he's coaching on match day to win games. But he's also coaching for the future. Something his mentor taught him. Clarkson spent those first few years at Hawthorn teaching the plan in pieces that would make up the game plan that won you 3 of 4. The fact that 08 came a little earlier than expected is a separate thing.

Yes, I'm sure Mitchell is coaching on match day to win games. But he's also - I think intentionally, put the list in a position where he knows that won't happen and is putting the gameplan foundations in place for when you're competing in finals in a few years time.

 

[TheFourPillars]

One has to remember that opposition teams have had a year to pick apart our gameplan and find weaknesses. They probably have. We will have faced three senior level coaches over the first 3 weeks. Clarkson is a master at finding weaknesses of opposition teams and coming up with a plan to win exposing those weaknesses. Add to this the inexperience in the middle of the ground and all over the ground and the lack fire power up forward and you have our situation. We need time and games and game plan adjustments every coach has to make them. Its not drastic but more subtle adjustments. Every team is working on their weaknesses.

 

[eldorado]

Reckon you're looking at it wrong

It's not about wanting to suck. It's about realising you're not in contention and doing what's best for the football club long term.

Did you seriously not see what was happening when Sam offloaded literally every shred of experience you had outside Sicily?

Why sit there middling around the middle of the ladder (at best) for the next 2-3 years only to then have Tasmania come in and absolutely take away any chance you have of gaining any decent talent which would then relegate you to the bottom of the ladder for the foreseeable future? It's madness.

It's not that Mitchell is actively trying to lose. I'm sure he's coaching on match day to win games. But he's also coaching for the future. Something his mentor taught him. Clarkson spent those first few years at Hawthorn teaching the plan in pieces that would make up the game plan that won you 3 of 4. The fact that 08 came a little earlier than expected is a separate thing.

Yes, I'm sure Mitchell is coaching on match day to win games. But he's also - I think intentionally, put the list in a position where he knows that won't happen and is putting the gameplan foundations in place for when you're competing in finals in a few years time.

Bullshit.

He didn't 'literally' offload 'every' bit of experience, we kept a few over 28s, Wingard, Breust, Frost.

We also brought in a 26 year old Amon and a 24 year old Meek. Why?

Sam wants us to improve as quickly as possible. I can tell you that NONE of his actions were motivated by a desire to be near to bottom for a few more years.

And your quote was "I would bet good money that Mitchell wants to spend the next few years racking up Top 5 picks"

Stop listening to Damien Barrett, you'll be better for it