Preview Round 2: Sydney vs Essendon, SCG, Sunday 14/06/20 @ 3:35 PM

[DapperJong]

He is going to have to hold down a KPD position in the next year or 2. The decision comes down to do we want him to have player 30 to 50 games by then or 10.

It's hard not to like Ambrose but he shouldn't keep Zerk out IMO. Sure Ambrose offers us flexibility but that should be his only role in the side now whether it's defense - tagging or forward. Personally I'd have been just as happy for Ambrose to play Townsends role forward. If the club recruited Townsend because they decided he plays a specific role we need forward then I'm not sure what he does there that Ambrose couldn't do - even if that's just to be slightly better than Laverde.

hmm, not sure Ambrose' forward craft is a fraction of what Townsend's is.

Ambrose has 2 uses. Tagger and shut down defender. He's not a Mr. fix it.

 

[CBombers17]

hmm, not sure Ambrose' forward craft is a fraction of what Townsend's is.

Ambrose has 2 uses. Tagger and shut down defender. He's not a Mr. fix it.

Whilst Ambrose wasn't a great forward I didn't see him as a disaster either. Ultimately i'm questioning why Essendon is bringing in average talent (Townsend) whilst also retaining average talent (Laverde) - but that's not for this conversation really.

 

[RUNVS]

Hurley- McCartin
Ambrose-Blakey
BZT- Sinclair
Saad- Papley
Redman- Hayward
Ridley- S.Gray

He isn't with port Adelaide now so you can just say "Gray" as there is no other Gray in the Swans team to confuse him with

 

[Bjchan13]

Heeney will spend considerable time at full forward, so maybe Hurley opposes him.

I reckon Ambrose could go alright on Heeney. Or Redman

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

He is going to have to hold down a KPD position in the next year or 2. The decision comes down to do we want him to have player 30 to 50 games by then or 10.

It's hard not to like Ambrose but he shouldn't keep Zerk out IMO. Sure Ambrose offers us flexibility but that should be his only role in the side now whether it's defense - tagging or forward. Personally I'd have been just as happy for Ambrose to play Townsends role forward. If the club recruited Townsend because they decided he plays a specific role we need forward then I'm not sure what he does there that Ambrose couldn't do - even if that's just to be slightly better than Laverde.

Ambrose was outstanding last season as a lockdown defender and is only 28. Hurley only just turned 30. Yeah definitely Zerk to hopefully replace Hooker going forward for the taller forwards. Hooker turns 32 later this year. So I think we still have another year from him.

All I’m saying is Zerk has to earn his place, no guarantee of games this season.

 

[Ambrosia]

Redman and Ridley would play small wouldn't they?
Hurley, Ambrose and ZT on McCartin, Blakey and the 3rd ruck. The other 3 take the small, though maybe McKenna in for Ridley works better for balance.

Sydney didn’t pick a second ruck in round 1 when Sinclair is fit so if he plays I’d expect him to spend a fair bit of time on the bench

 

[ghostdog]

Whilst Ambrose wasn't a great forward I didn't see him as a disaster either. Ultimately i'm questioning why Essendon is bringing in average talent (Townsend) whilst also retaining average talent (Laverde) - but that's not for this conversation really.

Ambrose was okay as forward when he started. He nailed 13.3 in 16 games in his debut year; better forward than Laverde I think. Not so sure about Townsend though. If needs be, I wouldn't be unhappy with Ambrose going forward. He'll create a contest, and given how well he plays in defence, he might even be a better forward now than he used to be.

 

[eth-dog]

Ambrose was a below average forward. I'd sooner have any of Hurley, Hooker or Francis play forward if we were forced.

 

[JT_the_Man]

Why are we acting like Townsend wasn’t best on a couple of months ago?

 

[ghostdog]

I reckon Ambrose could go alright on Heeney. Or Redman

I'd prefer Ambrose than Hurley for Heeney. Ambrose would keep up and Heeney would be forced to be creative to find some space. Ambrose would keep him honest. Hurley being beaten by a debutant last round is a bit of a worry. I fear Heeney would embarrass him.

 

[CBombers17]

Ambrose was okay as forward when he started. He nailed 13.3 in 16 games in his debut year; better forward than Laverde I think. Not so sure about Townsend though. If needs be, I wouldn't be unhappy with Ambrose going forward. He'll create a contest, and given how well he plays in defence, he might even be a better forward now than he used to be.

Pretty much. I don't think anyone would defend him as a great forward but if he's a 5.5 out of ten I'm not sure what the point of having two more on the list that are 5.8/10 and 6.2/10 - especially when there is a very strong likelihood none of them play in our best forward line.

 

[Ambrosia]

Pretty much. I don't think anyone would defend him as a great forward but if he's a 5.5 out of ten I'm not sure what the point of having two more on the list that are 5.8/10 and 6.2/10 - especially when there is a very strong likelihood none of them play in our best forward line.

I think his hands have improved since then and his set shot kicking is a bonus. I remember we played him forward for one game not that long ago and wasn’t bad.

 

[eth-dog]

Hurley- McCartin
Ambrose-Blakey
BZT- Sinclair
Saad- Papley
Redman- Hayward
Ridley- S.Gray

If we were to line up with that defence I'd swap Ridley and Redman

 

[Bjchan13]

Ambrose was outstanding last season as a lockdown defender and is only 28. Hurley only just turned 30. Yeah definitely Zerk to hopefully replace Hooker going forward for the taller forwards. Hooker turns 32 later this year. So I think we still have another year from him.

All I’m saying is Zerk has to earn his place, no guarantee of games this season.

I dont think you'll find anyone mentioning gifting games to Zerk for the sake of it. One of reasons though that i hope Zerk plays more often than not is that he gets that senior experience asap as the Hooker/Hurley defensive has slowed down dramatically. But he has to perform in those games. He's looked good so far in my opinion and outperformed Hurley in round 1.

 

[Bjchan13]

I'd prefer Ambrose than Hurley for Heeney. Ambrose would keep up and Heeney would be forced to be creative to find some space. Ambrose would keep him honest. Hurley being beaten by a debutant last round is a bit of a worry. I fear Heeney would embarrass him.

My thoughts exactly

 

[ghostdog]

Ambrose was a below average forward. I'd sooner have any of Hurley, Hooker or Francis play forward if we were forced.

He was average in 2014 and mostly superceded by Daniher and Carlisle in 2015 before switching to defence. Not much of a sample. He was ordinary. I'd definitely play Hooker or Townsend forward before Ambrose, but he would be okay if needs be.

Pretty much. I don't think anyone would defend him as a great forward but if he's a 5.5 out of ten I'm not sure what the point of having two more on the list that are 5.8/10 and 6.2/10 - especially when there is a very strong likelihood none of them play in our best forward line.

Yeah I think Townsend is our best fringe forward right now.

 

[CBombers17]

Ambrose was a below average forward. I'd sooner have any of Hurley, Hooker or Francis play forward if we were forced.

If Francis could play forward it would solve several issues but it doesn't look like it at this stage unfortunately.

Do you play all 4 of Ambrose, Zerk, Hurley and Francis at any stage or drop one (you have Zerk in bit Francis out on a post i noticed)?

 

[eth-dog]

He was average in 2014 and mostly superceded by Daniher and Carlisle in 2015 before switching to defence. Not much of a sample. He was ordinary. I'd definitely play Hooker or Townsend forward before Ambrose, but he would be okay if needs be.

Yeah I think Townsend is our best fringe forward right now.

He averaged around the 0.6 goals/game as a mature aged key forward in 30-odd games. That's a pretty big sample size, not may mature age recruits get that long to prove their worth in the position they were drafted for. Hooker, Townsend, Francis and Hurley are all better forwards than Ambrose who, as I said, was below average for that position

If Francis could play forward it would solve several issues but it doesn't look like it at this stage unfortunately.

Do you play all 4 of Ambrose, Zerk, Hurley and Francis at any stage or drop one (you have Zerk in bit Francis out on a post i noticed)?

Francis playing forward creates more issues than it solves. I'm just illustrating who I'd prefer as a forward to Ambrose.

That was a post I quoted. I would have Francis playing ahead of Zerk, but not by much.

 

[CBombers17]

He averaged around the 0.6 goals/game as a mature aged key forward in 30-odd games. That's a pretty big sample size, not may mature age recruits get that long to prove their worth in the position they were drafted for. Hooker, Townsend, Francis and Hurley are all better forwards than Ambrose who, as I said, was below average for that position

Francis playing forward creates more issues than it solves. I'm just illustrating who I'd prefer as a forward to Ambrose.

That was a post I quoted. I would have Francis playing ahead of Zerk, but not by much.

I don't agree about Francis being able play forward causing any problems whatsoever - but as it happens he cant/won't apparently so its a moot point.

If Zerk comes in it would be unlikely to be for Francis though surely? He's the main Intercept mark down there. I have it as a Zerk or Ambrose decision.

 

[ghostdog]

He averaged around the 0.6 goals/game as a mature aged key forward in 30-odd games. That's a pretty big sample size, not may mature age recruits get that long to prove their worth in the position they were drafted for. Hooker, Townsend, Francis and Hurley are all better forwards than Ambrose who, as I said, was below average for that position

I would have thought he got his 30 games in the forwardline in lieu of other options - we didn't have any. At that time there was constant argument over whether Carlisle should play forward or back, whether Hurley should play forward or back, we'd only just picked up McKernan but he was recruited to support our ruck options. Ambrose got 30 because he was needed, but I would have thought if he were playing as a third tall alongside a couple of accomplished forwards he may have been more effective. Anyway, it's neither here nor there really. We both think he's ordinary. I just prefer him as a back first, in a run-with role second and an emergency forward third.

 

[eth-dog]

I don't agree about Francis being able play forward causing any problems whatsoever - but as it happens he cant/won't apparently so its a moot point.

If Zerk comes in it would be unlikely to be for Francis though surely? He's the main Intercept mark down there. I have it as a Zerk or Ambrose decision.

If it's Zerk vs Ambrose then it's Ambrose.

I would have thought he got his 30 games in the forwardline in lieu of other options - we didn't have any. At that time there was constant argument over whether Carlisle should play forward or back, whether Hurley should play forward or back, we'd only just picked up McKernan but he was recruited to support our ruck options. Ambrose got 30 because he was needed, but I would have thought if he were playing as a third tall alongside a couple of accomplished forwards he may have been more effective. Anyway, it's neither here nor there really. We both think he's ordinary. I just prefer him as a back first, in a run-with role second and an emergency forward third.

He got plenty of opportunities as a forward and wasn't up to it essentially.

 

[Beerfish]

He isn't with port Adelaide now so you can just say "Gray" as there is no other Gray in the Swans team to confuse him with

Thanks. While you're here, does the poll meet your approval?

 

[Ambrosia]

I would have thought he got his 30 games in the forwardline in lieu of other options - we didn't have any. At that time there was constant argument over whether Carlisle should play forward or back, whether Hurley should play forward or back, we'd only just picked up McKernan but he was recruited to support our ruck options. Ambrose got 30 because he was needed, but I would have thought if he were playing as a third tall alongside a couple of accomplished forwards he may have been more effective. Anyway, it's neither here nor there really. We both think he's ordinary. I just prefer him as a back first, in a run-with role second and an emergency forward third.

Ambrose was also tasked with defensive forward duties which tends to limit players output.

I think he could be handy as a 3rd tall forward but he’s more valuable to the team when he’s stopping the oppositions best forward.

 

[CBombers17]

I would have thought he got his 30 games in the forwardline in lieu of other options - we didn't have any. At that time there was constant argument over whether Carlisle should play forward or back, whether Hurley should play forward or back, we'd only just picked up McKernan but he was recruited to support our ruck options. Ambrose got 30 because he was needed, but I would have thought if he were playing as a third tall alongside a couple of accomplished forwards he may have been more effective. Anyway, it's neither here nor there really. We both think he's ordinary. I just prefer him as a back first, in a run-with role second and an emergency forward third.

In fairness so does the club according to the website....

"Courageous defender who was among the league’s best one-on-one backmen in 2019. Often tasked with taking on the opponent’s leading forward, the athletic Bomber has also shown good versatility in stints in the midfield and forward line."

It's one of the odd problems we have with the list - 3 first choice defenders around 6"4 all with a deficiency in one of; disposal, marking or endurance -and still nobody to take the big KPP's (Zerk is the 4th and probably most rounded but may develop playing scratch matches). Add to that a glut of flankers as well.
It's the sort of list you'd compile if there were no limits on how many players you could have at the club.

 

[ghostdog]

9 days to go!