Review Round 3 = Collingwood 72-73 Brisbane

[manicpie]

Sure thing – the teams set up similarly with both trying to create a spare behind the ball, and both committing numbers to the midfield contest. The stark difference between the two were the structures and ball movement.

In the back half, Brisbane were able to generate a meaningful spare man (usually Andrews) and get the ball into the hands of their elite ball users (usually Rich), allowing them to methodically short pass their way out of defence time and time again. Collingwood defended stoutly, but the Brisbane forwards worked well as a unit to separate the Pies defenders and create space. Collingwood struggled to generate any real drive off their half back line. Their ball movement was stilted and risk-averse. Their structure didn't allow them to attack the corridor like Brisbane did (most notably in the game's final play).

Most starkly, moving forward, Collingwood's structure was (and has been for years) absolutely terrible. Players struggle to generate space, find separation, or present an option for the ball carrier. Multiple players lead to the same area of the forward fifty, congesting the entire attacking zone. More often than not, this leads to a long kick to a contest in a clogged forward half. Brisbane, however, time and time again managed to hit up players on the lead, out the back, and in dangerous one-on-one contests isolated against their defender. Their leading lanes worked brilliantly, their forwards worked intelligently together to create space, and as a result the looks the Lions got were 1000% more dangerous than the looks the Pies forwards got.

Gameplan/structure wise it's like comparing a well-drilled Premier League team who work as one entity to spread and separate their opponent and create meaningful forward opportunities... to the Croydon U12's who, though they try their guts out, all just swarm to the ball and hack it forward blindly.

Beautifully explained, thanks for that

 

[manicpie]

What would you have done in the last couple of minutes?

It was our inability to hit targets going forward, and the strange decision to save the game with 3 minutes to go which cost us. Not sure if that was the directive from Bucks or not but ultimately, not much Bucks could do with 5 minutes to except put the boots on himself

 

[Maggie5]

It was our inability to hit targets going forward, and the strange decision to save the game with 3 minutes to go which cost us. Not sure if that was the directive from Bucks or not but ultimately, not much Bucks could do with 5 minutes to except put the boots on himself

I actually felt sorry for Pendlebury he was trying to marshal the troops but we don't seem to have thinking players. Senior players really let us down but not sure what choices we have given the mess the club has made with salary cap and drafting.

I am so over players starting like a train on fire (Thomas) then disappearing. I actually thought I would have to take my opinion of him back at that stage.
Sidebottom, not sure where he is at. Dropped marks at critical points of the game.

I was already at ease knowing we are not a top 4 side but last night really hurts,. Where was the leadership of our senior players?

Not much a coach can do in the box at that stage of a game.

 

[Scodog10]

As well as he played Howe started the rot by giving away a dumb free kick for them to directly goal off.

Might seem harsh, but the team has always lacked a ruthless edge and takes the foot off and has costly avoidable mental lapses.

Langdon not rushing the behind in the 18 grand final similarly got west coast back in the game.

Not harsh, IMO. I’ve always felt we play within ourselves once we establish a lead which results in a lot of give up goals in time on. They don’t swing the game all that often, but they always come at times when one more going the other way would kill the contest. One things for sure we don’t play with the same level of urgency as the Power.

IMO, it’s coach driven and the biggest hurdle that Buckley has never managed to overcome. He’s extremely robotic in how he analyses and thinks about the game to a level we mere mortals can’t begin to understand. The flip side is it’s probably difficult for some of his players too and that extra time could be better spent invested in four minute drills on what to do in a scenario where you’re 4 goals up in the second half of a quarter. It’s that window we’re a goal either side is most important because 3 goals and your a sniff, but 5 goals everything needs to go right...

 

[KillerMagpies]

Marvel Stadium was a sauna this evening.

Why wasn't the roof open?

All players were gassed, 10 minutes into the 3rd.
The game would’ve been better if they weren’t so rooted.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Still getting over that, horrible feeling at the ground, probably sat there in stunned silence for a few minutes. Maybe it was flashes of the 2018 GF that came flooding back....
I just knew Brisbane were going to hit the lead late, as we looked panicked at the end there, and all momentum was with them. Don't get how they were able to use the centre corridor so easily in the last minute and then hit a leading target inside 50 so easy. What happened to flooding or protecting the space. It just seemed to easy in the end there.
Anyway, should've been 2-1, but 1-2 now with a must win against GWS next week. We lose next week, and the head hunters are back out, and the pressure builds, particularly on Bucks.

 

[Axl the great]

Not harsh, IMO. I’ve always felt we play within ourselves once we establish a lead which results in a lot of give up goals in time on. They don’t swing the game all that often, but they always come at times when one more going the other way would kill the contest. One things for sure we don’t play with the same level of urgency as the Power.

IMO, it’s coach driven and the biggest hurdle that Buckley has never managed to overcome. He’s extremely robotic in how he analyses and thinks about the game to a level we mere mortals can’t begin to understand. The flip side is it’s probably difficult for some of his players too and that extra time could be better spent invested in four minute drills on what to do in a scenario where you’re 4 goals up in the second half of a quarter. It’s that window we’re a goal either side is most important because 3 goals and your a sniff, but 5 goals everything needs to go right...

Adding to that Scodog,
There seems to be too much rigid instruction and rules that must be followed rather than instinct play.
You have to let your players play largely on instinct with a solid structural foundation supporting it.
Our most glaring area I think this is true is our goal kicking, the tireless and predictable way we go about trying to score, there is always one or two touches too many inside 50 resulting in a turnover.
I want more instinct and flair and less of the robotic and inflexible system that shows up most weeks.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Just re watched the last 3 minutes of the game.

De Goey should hang his head in shame. His complete lack of effort to first contest and then pressure with 30 seconds to go was atrocious.

Well done on re-watching that, you must be a sucker for punishment. Like the 2018 GF, l won't be watching the last few minutes of this match either!!
In terms of DeGoey, agree the effort was infuriating, but we had chances to just about put the game away in the last quarter, and we either didn't convert our chances, or we just didn't create a scoring opportunity with the ball inside F50.

 

[Matt_352]

What would you have done in the last couple of minutes?

Maybe things differently earlier so the game doesn't come down to the final 2 minutes

 

[danielnajdek]

Just re watched the last 3 minutes of the game.

De Goey should hang his head in shame. His complete lack of effort to first contest and then pressure with 30 seconds to go was atrocious.

Did the same thing in the GF. Jogging 20m away from McGovern.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

I can't fathom how the same errors in the way we play keep happening but are not being rectified, Our issues are 99% structural and it lies in our forward set up and our positioning and entries.
Last night was criminal to lose that game, absolutely unacceptable!!!! Some games you are forced into poor entries due to dominance by the opposition or they way they set up in defence but we had it on a platter and stuffed it big time.
We had enough time and space to enter the 50 with relatively easy possession but couldn't hit a target, the story is the same and the pattern repeats itself far too often at this club.
Our players inside 50 seem clueless as to how to create space and find pockets of space and our kickers seem too stupid to kick to advantage and use footy intelligence and find those players.
On natural instinct even park footballers could do better, that tells me there is confusion and in my opinion too much information and strategy in players heads, just let them play! sometimes less is more.
Imagine Richmond or Geelong with as many easy unpressured entries what we get most weeks? That's where we need to get too and it has been not happening for far too long.
I actually don't think we are that far off, something is hampering the team and my suspicion is the coaching staff, Oh and the fact there are 3 or 4 passengers picked every week who are not up to scratch.
We have early and talented picks playing seconds who need to be exposed early, I am sick of seeing C Brown run around and fumble and get pushed off ground contests, WHE don't even get me started about the laziness and ineffective player he is, JT puts in but is not up to it and there are probably one or two more.
Even on a winning streak under Bucks we don't have that polished, ruthless look of a really really good side and I think time is up for the lot of them to be honest.

Even under Bucks.. when we're on a winning streak for eg.. the players have never seemed to be able to gel well together.. the midfield with the likes of treloar phillips sidebottom pendlebury adams etc.. I've rarely if ever have seen them play outstanding football together..

We are complaining that we weren't able to hold on to a lead..when we should be complaining about why we're not putting the foot on the throttle to further our lead.. eg.. why are we complaining about losing by 5 points.. when we should be complaining about why we are pushing so many numbers back in the 3rd..

That natural instinct players have to want to take the game on.. and create their own work of art rather than Buckley's obsession in creating his own masterpiece.. eg.. IQ and Moore wanting to take on the game.. having Cameron and Daniher chaise their tail.. having blokes play total football to move in behind and cover for them.. well did we see any of that last night..

Players like WHE however good or bad you think they are.. are a product of Buckleys inept coaching..

 

[Baird]

We lost to a team who put in a piss weak effort.

 

[Scodog10]

Adding to that Scodog,
There seems to be too much rigid instruction and rules that must be followed rather than instinct play.
You have to let your players play largely on instinct with a solid structural foundation supporting it.
Our most glaring area I think this is true is our goal kicking, the tireless and predictable way we go about trying to score, there is always one or two touches too many inside 50 resulting in a turnover.
I want more instinct and flair and less of the robotic and inflexible system that shows up most weeks.

I couldn’t agree more!

I think I/ we should add though that this all speculation based on what we see on game day. There’s every chance what we’re discussing is consistently brought up behind closed doors. In which case though I’m inclined to say that then the issue is accountability because the same players seem to have been making the same mistakes (or going missing) for a while now without being made accountable.

I’m not sure I want us to be as ruthless, but Bevo is big on it with JJ, Lipinski and Wallis all on track to spend time in the reserves already this year. All three would have been best 22 locks with us.

 

[MadMaynard]

Just re watched the last 3 minutes of the game.

De Goey should hang his head in shame. His complete lack of effort to first contest and then pressure with 30 seconds to go was atrocious.

Everyone is potting De Goey and some of it warranted but he was burnt on the lead at least 3 times in the last alone by players by players not lowering vision which should be their first option in that scenario. Not just instant dump kick. The kick is ok(asking a lot with some of our players) and Jordan marks it(again asking a bit based on his form during game) but that's 3 shots at goal.

 

[Bussie]

We have drafted too much with nostalgia and not with foresight. We have also drafted too many 'possibilities' Sier, Ruscoe, Atu, Murphy...
Brown brothers may need a stint in the twos for a while and the gym.
Time to bring in some experienced players like Greenwood and...wait...
Game has gone past a few players, Mayne in particular.

Since we don't have the experienced players it might be time to play the kids.

 

[Maggie5]

Maybe things differently earlier so the game doesn't come down to the final 2 minutes

Words... how about actual examples then after that also inform me as to how the opposition coach would have reacted?

Too easy blaming Buckley for everything although you may get some cheap 'likes'.

 

[No SPIN]

Virtually every one here thought at the start of the season we would miss the 8 or finish 6-10.
So why are we bagging, players, the game plan, the Coach?

Surely we played well above expectations and showed we are more than capable, and in fact could have beaten one of the Flag favourites.
Isn’t that a huge positive?

People should therefore (given their pre-season expectations) , not be outraged.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Virtually every one here thought at the start of the season we would miss the 8 or finish 6-10.
So why are we bagging, players, the game plan, the Coach?

Surely we played well above expectations and showed we are more than capable, and in fact could have beaten one of the Flag favourites.
Isn’t that a huge positive?

People should therefore be given their pre-season expectations, not outraged.

Many posters just want to be proven to be right and they think maintaining the faux rage is a means to that end. Including hoping we lose games.

 

[Billys Back]

WHE must have photos

 

[Billys Back]

Virtually every one here thought at the start of the season we would miss the 8 or finish 6-10.
So why are we bagging, players, the game plan, the Coach?

Surely we played well above expectations and showed we are more than capable, and in fact could have beaten one of the Flag favourites.
Isn’t that a huge positive?

People should therefore be given their pre-season expectations, not outraged.

What are you banging on about?

 

[stormskye]

Virtually every one here thought at the start of the season we would miss the 8 or finish 6-10.
So why are we bagging, players, the game plan, the Coach?

Surely we played well above expectations and showed we are more than capable, and in fact could have beaten one of the Flag favourites.
Isn’t that a huge positive?

People should therefore (given their pre-season expectations) , not be outraged.

99% of people are fed up with the same 3 players being gifted games and having 0
Impact, preventing any development of other players that have a future on the list

 

[No SPIN]

What are you banging on about?

it’s self evident- if we are 6-10 team then last nights performance against a flag favourite is not worthy of the bagging it’s getting.
It’s should be viewed more positively.

 

[No SPIN]

99% of people are fed up with the same 3 players being gifted games and having 0
Impact

these same guys were known quantities when the 6-10 predictions were made - so the performance last night cannot be viewed as a downer, despite those players.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Anyway guys.. getting on the jet ski soon and just chilling by the bay. Then have another Tinder date organized for tonight. So pretty full on.

Enjoy the rest of your day.. I know.. I will.

 

[manicpie]

I actually felt sorry for Pendlebury he was trying to marshal the troops but we don't seem to have thinking players. Senior players really let us down but not sure what choices we have given the mess the club has made with salary cap and drafting.

I am so over players starting like a train on fire (Thomas) then disappearing. I actually thought I would have to take my opinion of him back at that stage.
Sidebottom, not sure where he is at. Dropped marks at critical points of the game.

I was already at ease knowing we are not a top 4 side but last night really hurts,. Where was the leadership of our senior players?

Not much a coach can do in the box at that stage of a game.

It seemed to start with 3 minutes to go and Pendles had the ball and did a chip kick to someone who then kicked it backwards and it was hold on for grim death, hopefully we learn from it and try to continue to win the game