Review Round 3 = Collingwood 72-73 Brisbane

[Billys Back]

Unfortunately we have too many players on the 22 that would struggle to get a game at any other club. And the selectors are gifting them games rather than dropping them and have them fight for their position.

McCreery should have played. Without doubt he would have added far more than WHE. We desparately need crumbed and pressure player on the forward. Someone who stays down and at Cox’s feet.

C Brown, Madgen and even Thomas really need a stint in the seconds.

It’s time we need to give some kids a go because it isn’t as if they will provide less impact than these guys. At least givethem some exposure and I’m sure at least 1 will show enough to be a regular in the 22 this year.

With such a dominant advantage in the ruck, I don’t know how we lost that game. The midfield as it is now just isn’t good enough.

 

[Billys Back]

it’s self evident- if we are 6-10 team then last nights performance against a flag favourite is not worthy of the bagging it’s getting.
It’s should be viewed more positively.

We should have won that game. But you’re right, Brisbane will be contesting for the premiership. If they had a ruckman playing last night, they would have been a 5 goal better team.

 

[Billys Back]

As per Buckley the hitout dominance is overrated. Then why in the world are we paying big bucks for a dominant ruckman if that doesn't or can't give us an advantage. Wouldn't it be better to invest that money in an area where we can get a bloody advantage?

I can’t believe how giving your team first use of the ball is over-rated.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

After a horror off season I really didn't know what to expect this year. I thought we were on an obvious downward slide and would probably miss finals, mainly due to our list now having hardly any experienced backup for injury cover and to put pressure on performance. After round 3 I'm still of the same opinion but I'm grateful that our wheels haven't fallen off and we are competitive.
Positives:
Our effort and commitment is there (WHE excepted). Pressure levels are good.
We are playing a faster more attacking game and our ball transition is really good at times. Our field kicking is not something we can complain about anymore.
We beat Carlton and took the lead in all time wins and losses.
Howe is back, Pendles is still Pendles, Quaynor and Noble are players, Cox is a regular contributor now, Roughead still a player, Daicos continuing his upward trajectory, Moore is magnificent. Sier looking ok.

Negatives:
Will Hosking Elliot... nuff said
We seem to run out of puff a bit. For mine... Degoey and Sier are too heavy and need to drop some weight. Sier especially is the widest player on the field. Seems we even managed to stuff up our interchange rotations.
Sidebottom is in horrible touch.
Callum Brown is not a player unfortunately. Neither is Magden.
Ruscoe, Henry looked way off it. Ruscoe's hair.
There's no obvious Collingwood "brand" of footy being played. We continue to play in patches within games and can't seem to sustain an attacking effort for long. We (or the opponents) get a lead and then it gets whittled down and repeat.
Elliot's injury
Grundy absolutely dominates the tap work yet we continue to get beaten in ruck clearances. By now, this represents a coaching failure that this still hasn't been sorted out.
It's looking like Degoey will not be the level of player we hoped.

 

[No SPIN]

I can’t believe how giving your team first use of the ball is over-rated.

I think he’s saying - it’s very hard to capitalize on hit outs.
Yesterday I posted a 3 year analysis showing Gawn at 20% hit outs to advantage, was Ranked 1 and Grundy Ranked 2 with 16%.
Therefore the best Ruckman can’t give his team a first use advantage from his tap outs 80% of the time.
The same analysis however showed why Grundy is more valuable than just being a Ruckman, based on a number of other stats.

 

[sr36]

I can't fathom how the same errors in the way we play keep happening but are not being rectified, Our issues are 99% structural and it lies in our forward set up and our positioning and entries.

We're too defensive. When the ball goes inside 50, we're too defensive. Players pull up 50 from goal in position to block the outlet, rather than getting to the contest to apply, win the footy or provide an option. We're trying to score through outnumbered solo efforts.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

99% of people are fed up with the same 3 players being gifted games and having 0
Impact, preventing any development of other players that have a future on the list

Yet those same 99% of people were screaming for Henry and Ruscoe to be dropped, and also want T Brown dropped.

 

[Kappa]

I can deal with a loss like that. Didn't think we would be in it to be honest.
So good and some bad. I have accepted we are a team on the slide so these performances where we fall away are to be expected.

Yes it's annoying we lost a close game AGAIN but stop following Collingwood if you can't get used to that. Yes some questionable umpiring did not help but as I have said many times in this sport EVERY close game is inevitably decided by an umpiring decision or non decision.

In the end we looked good against a premiership contender but couldn't get the job done. It happens when you are in fact not a premiership contender.

After the loss against the bulldogs everyone was saying they can handle a loss against a better team, couldn't handle the way we lost to the bulldogs.

It seems that isn't quite true. Some people just can't handle losing in any way. There are positives from last night. There are negatives.

Everyone needs to look at our list, realize where we are at and rethink their expectations for this team. Best case we sneak into finals, maybe even win one. The end. That's it.

If you can't handle that then maybe just take a year off Collingwood.

Where our list is at? We aren't even playing a young team, we have an old 22 that hasn't changed in years with little youth standing up outside of quaynor

 

[sr36]

Sure thing – the teams set up similarly with both trying to create a spare behind the ball, and both committing numbers to the midfield contest. The stark difference between the two were the structures and ball movement.

In the back half, Brisbane were able to generate a meaningful spare man (usually Andrews) and get the ball into the hands of their elite ball users (usually Rich), allowing them to methodically short pass their way out of defence time and time again. Collingwood defended stoutly, but the Brisbane forwards worked well as a unit to separate the Pies defenders and create space. Collingwood struggled to generate any real drive off their half back line. Their ball movement was stilted and risk-averse. Their structure didn't allow them to attack the corridor like Brisbane did (most notably in the game's final play).

Most starkly, moving forward, Collingwood's structure was (and has been for years) absolutely terrible. Players struggle to generate space, find separation, or present an option for the ball carrier. Multiple players lead to the same area of the forward fifty, congesting the entire attacking zone. More often than not, this leads to a long kick to a contest in a clogged forward half. Brisbane, however, time and time again managed to hit up players on the lead, out the back, and in dangerous one-on-one contests isolated against their defender. Their leading lanes worked brilliantly, their forwards worked intelligently together to create space, and as a result the looks the Lions got were 1000% more dangerous than the looks the Pies forwards got.

Gameplan/structure wise it's like comparing a well-drilled Premier League team who work as one entity to spread and separate their opponent and create meaningful forward opportunities... to the Croydon U12's who, though they try their guts out, all just swarm to the ball and hack it forward blindly.

I think a lot of it simply comes down to other teams defences being set deeper and thus protect the 50 better. By setting higher, it feels like we're dominating, because the opposition can't get past half way, but when they do they have space galore in their forward 50.

 

[Billys Back]

Where our list is at? We aren't even playing a young team, we have an old 22 that hasn't changed in years with little youth standing up outside of quaynor

Well the kids aren’t really given an opportunity. Not dissimilar to the Australian cricket team.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Well done on re-watching that, you must be a sucker for punishment. Like the 2018 GF, l won't be watching the last few minutes of this match either!!
In terms of DeGoey, agree the effort was infuriating, but we had chances to just about put the game away in the last quarter, and we either didn't convert our chances, or we just didn't create a scoring opportunity with the ball inside F50.

Yeah it was a struggle, but there were just a few moments that stood out and that was one of them.

The two other obvious ones were:
- Andrew’s impacting that same contest and Cox just skirting off the back; and
- Sidebottom just blindly dumping a scrubby kick from the boundary throw in, which ultimately led to the intercept mark that set up the whole play.

 

[Kappa]

Well the kids aren’t really given an opportunity. Not dissimilar to the Australian cricket team.

Which kids have earnt an opportunity? They're all struggling when given a chance

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Where our list is at? We aren't even playing a young team, we have an old 22 that hasn't changed in years with little youth standing up outside of quaynor

And Noble.

 

[Kappa]

And Noble.

Noble is 24.

 

[Billys Back]

Which kids have earnt an opportunity? They're all struggling when given a chance

‘All’??? We gave 1 game to Henry and Ruscoe isn’t up to it. You may be surprised but there are many more kids on our list that these two. And I don’t think 1 game is an opportunity. Obviously the kids have had little opportunity to show what they can do, but may as well find out.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Noble is 24.

Well slap my arse and call me Betsy...

 

[Vicky Park]

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Bloke shows more fight than JT & WHE combined.

Disgusting behaviour. Umps didn’t cost us the game.

Jeepers. We were making jokes last night about the umpires needing protection after the game, as they sometimes did at Vic Park in the ‘good old days’. There were some - unusual? - decisions, but they didn’t cost us the game. We cost us the game.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Where our list is at? We aren't even playing a young team, we have an old 22 that hasn't changed in years with little youth standing up outside of quaynor

Its a list proven to be good enough to make finals, with an acknowledged gap in the 20-24 age bracket and a bunch of 18-19 year old kids who will get their chance when the VFL season starts. But the best 22 is still good enough, just a matter of finding the right "bottom four" in that mix. Its a list with only Greenwood and Mayne (both fringe players) likely to retire at the end of the year, whilst our oldest Pendlebury is as good as ever. Sidebottom has only just turned 30 and has plenty of football left.

Its a list that lacks depth so we cant afford injuries but the depth we had last year proved to be largely useless as many of them spent most of their time in the injury room or in the resin art studio.

The few youngsters that have been given chances to play so far in this season (that is only three weeks old) have been widely criticised rather than cut some slack by fans and coaches alike. They will continue to get more chances as the season progresses and the VFL season starts but I'm not holding my breath waiting for anything but criticism when they come on and inevitably play like first year rookies.

 

[Linda Lovelace]

Unfortunately we have too many players on the 22 that would struggle to get a game at any other club. And the selectors are gifting them games rather than dropping them and have them fight for their position.

McCreery should have played. Without doubt he would have added far more than WHE. We desparately need crumbed and pressure player on the forward. Someone who stays down and at Cox’s feet.

C Brown, Madgen and even Thomas really need a stint in the seconds.

It’s time we need to give some kids a go because it isn’t as if they will provide less impact than these guys. At least givethem some exposure and I’m sure at least 1 will show enough to be a regular in the 22 this year.

With such a dominant advantage in the ruck, I don’t know how we lost that game. The midfield as it is now just isn’t good enough.

Callum Brown needs a stint in the Essendon District Football League, not in the VFL.

It's getting ridiculous that people still think this guy is even remotely an AFL-standard footballer. Truly one of the worst players I have ever seen.

 

[sr36]

Where our list is at? We aren't even playing a young team, we have an old 22 that hasn't changed in years with little youth standing up outside of quaynor

We've currently got no depth at all, but where our list is at longer term is unknown, as we've got a heap of kids we really don't know much about - Rantall, Bianco, Wilson, Keane, Tohill, Ruscoe, McCreery, Mcrae, Mcinnes, Macmahon, Kelly, Chugg, Ginnivan, Poulter, Henry. That's a third of our list - god knows if we've got a lot or nothing there.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Its a list with only Greenwood and Mayne (both fringe players) likely to retire at the end of the year, whilst our oldest Pendlebury is as good as ever. Sidebottom has only just turned 30 and has plenty of football left.

I’d hope we aren’t offering JT a new deal for next season.

He will be 30 at the start of next year and given his output I don’t think there is any justification for keeping him on the list. Not even depth.

 

[JM#1]

Callum Brown needs a stint in the Essendon District Football League, not in the VFL.

It's getting ridiculous that people still think this guy is even remotely an AFL-standard footballer. Truly one of the worst players I have ever seen.

I was a fan of his in the earlier days, but I've come to see that nothing good ever comes of it when he has possession.

 

[jjsmitty8]

Thanks for your considered balanced summary, it was a pleasure to read after all the crap that has been posted by the overweight keyboard heroes, trolls and idiots that have NFI...

Being overweight doesn’t go hand in hand with being irrational after a game of football, as is evident in your approval of my original comment

But I appreciate the support lol.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I’d hope we aren’t offering JT a new deal for next season.

He will be 30 at the start of next year and given his output I don’t think there is any justification for keeping him on the list. Not even depth.

Yep... I missed him. It doesnt really change my point that we dont have anybody critical to our future success nearing retirement at the end of 2021.

I'd probably be retaining him (or one of Greenwood or Mayne) at this point, given our lack of depth is an issue we will carry for more than one season. But that call is miles away.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

We've currently got no depth at all, but where our list is at longer term is unknown, as we've got a heap of kids we really don't know much about - Rantall, Bianco, Wilson, Keane, Tohill, Ruscoe, McCreery, Mcrae, Mcinnes, Macmahon, Kelly, Chugg, Ginnivan, Poulter, Henry. That's a third of our list - god knows if we've got a lot or nothing there.

Well l am hoping that in the VFL praccy match that some of these young guys put up there hand up for selection against GWS.
Unfortunately three rounds in, and we cannot carry players who just aren't performing. WHE and Thomas in particular, are really battling, and l would like to see some youth injected into the side, for a point of difference and to give some spark.
I would even move on from Mayne, and let a kid play 10 to 15 games this year. Mayne has been a good servant the past few years, but l think we need to blood some young talent. We are seeing with quite a few other sides, how first year players are coming in and making an impact.