Preview Round 9 2020, Essendon vs Brisbane Lions, Metricon Stadium, Friday 31st July

[martinson]

You can only utilise the players you have to their optimum output. If we don't have a leading gun FF we don't have one.

If we did have one I'm sure we'd be better and it could make things a little easier for us but these days you need someone versatile who isn't a one trick pony. And they're hard to find.

 

[X AE A12]

Call me crazy, but I reckon Cam Rayner could play true full forward and do it well given an opportunity. He certainly has the attributes i.e. strong, quick off the mark and a decent kick. Times have changed, but he is the same height as Dunstall was and could be an outside the box selection to play deep and keep Essendon guessing.

We are giving him more midfield time this season, which we are doing with Charlie too. I don't like David King but he said it was a good move to bring Charlie up at times to increase his possessions and impact on the game overall, same may apply to Cam. He has been pretty laser like with his delivery inside 50 too so there might be a tradeoff there, but how bloody good would it be if he was just climbing on KPD at FF regularly

 

[Dylan12]

You can only utilise the players you have to their optimum output. If we don't have a leading gun FF we don't have one.

If we did have one I'm sure we'd be better and it could make things a little easier for us but these days you need someone versatile who isn't a one trick pony. And they're hard to find.

I know times have changed, but after Bernie Quinlan retired, who was Fitzroy's full forward after previously being a ruck rover (not sure if those born from the mid 90's onwards would know what that was), Richard Osborne pretty much played out of full forward at 182cm and kicked 58+ goals per season five times and just terrorised defences.

I'm not saying that is possible in this day and age, but if you have a dangerous enough player i.e. Charlie or Cam, there is no reason why you necessary need a tall (192cm+) to play full forward.

 

[Nunez]

In fairness our midfielders do kick a lot of goals. And also behinds.

How do they get so many opportunities if our forwards aren't doing their job?

 

[jackess]

I know times have changed, but after Bernie Quinlan retired, who was Fitzroy's full forward after previously being a ruck rover (not sure if those born from the mid 90's onwards would know what that was), Richard Osborne pretty much played out of full forward at 182cm and kicked 58+ goals per season five times and just terrorised defences.

I'm not saying that is possible in this day and age, but if you have a dangerous enough player i.e. Charlie or Cam, there is no reason why you necessary need a tall (192cm+) to play full forward.

It doesn't work because opponents flood your defence and you have a 182cm forward surrounded by half a dozen defenders all taller than him and guys like Harris Andrews at over 2 metres tall who will pluck intercept marks out of nowhere.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Nice OP, except nowadays our gameplan is more a high octane pressure around the stoppage type. We do launch off half back still when it's down there because we can but we're not as reliant on it as we used to be.

That's good to hear. We can cope with stoppage pressure pretty well, not so much the quick break.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There's a big difference between highlighting areas we can improve and saying we can't win finals or we have a terrible forwardline or saying McStay is a comedy footballer or declaring anybody would improve our forwardline.

X AE A12 made a pretty balanced post and 3KZ is Football offered a detailed opinion of how our forward line is lacking. You can disagree with their opinions, but I think it's silly to reduce to reduce this talking point to "we have a terrible forward line", it's a caricature.

 

[Dylan12]

It doesn't work because opponents flood your defence and you have a 182cm forward surrounded by half a dozen defenders all taller than him and guys like Harris Andrews at over 2 metres tall who will pluck intercept marks out of nowhere.

That was also the case back then too when a Chris Langford or Steve Silvagni would line up on Ossie and he would still destroy them.

 

[jackess]

X AE A12 made a pretty balanced post and 3KZ is Football offered a detailed opinion of how our forward line is lacking. You can disagree with their opinions, but I think it's silly to reduce to reduce this talking point to "we have a terrible forward line", it's a caricature.

Nobody is going to argue that our forwards can't improve or that them kicking more goals wouldn't be a good thing but it's functioning very well as it is and that should be acknowledged as well as the role that the key forwards play instead of the recycled 'we need key forwards who can regularly kick bags or we can't win'.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Nobody is going to argue that our forwards can't improve or that them kicking more goals wouldn't be a good thing but it's functioning very well as it is and that should be acknowledged as well as the role that the key forwards play instead of the recycled 'we need key forwards who can regularly kick bags or we can't win'.

Who actually said that in this thread?

 

[Tassie4ever]

One good thing to come out of the suspension, injury etc stuff is that Fagan will be forced, however reluctantly, to make changes and we may then get to see the potential of a few who have been on the brink for a while.

 

[jackess]

Who actually said that in this thread?

It has been said so many times on this board and the calls to drop Hipwood and McStay have followed.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It has been said so many times on this board and the calls to drop Hipwood and McStay have followed.

But not in this thread. Straw man arguments don't do us any favours.

 

[bungalow_bill]

It doesn't work because opponents flood your defence and you have a 182cm forward surrounded by half a dozen defenders all taller than him and guys like Harris Andrews at over 2 metres tall who will pluck intercept marks out of nowhere.

Works with Charlie because of his speed and craftiness around goal. Cam has a super leap so could work but would prefer him as is in the mid field / half forward area perhaps occasionally drifting down to FF

 

[bungalow_bill]

The thing with criticisms of our forwards is it is often mean spirited especially with McStay - like calling McStay a "comedy footballer" whenever he makes a mistake but rarely acknowledging the great things he brings to our team

 

[Jpw22511]

This thread at the moment.

 

[Dalions]

Not sure why we are talking about McStay at all (especially in this thread) considering he isn’t even playing in this game or the next.

 

[iBeng]

Isn't this the Uncles Cup?

 

[Saucery]

That was also the case back then too when a Chris Langford or Steve Silvagni would line up on Ossie and he would still destroy them.

Brad Johnson went alright in the square, especially towards the end of his career, and Cam's got 5cm on him.

 

[seanthelion]

Nice OP, except nowadays our gameplan is more a high octane pressure around the stoppage type. We do launch off half back still when it's down there because we can but we're not as reliant on it as we used to be.

Thanks eth-dog. I forgot to mention Andrew Phillips in the ruck for you guys. Is he coming back in this week?

 

[eth-dog]

I forgot to mention Andrew Phillips in the ruck for you guys. Is he coming back in this week?

I sincerely hope not. Besides, Bellchambers played pretty well on Sunday, but we could see Draper debut. Or well some of us are hoping that's the case

 

[a mayes ing]

Would just like to remind some posters that we're the highest scoring team this season

Due to our small forwards and midfielders...
I wonder how much better we could be is our Key forwards kicked goals regularly. I think we would be putting a lot of teams to the sword

 

[a mayes ing]

Without looking at our stats I'm not sure the mids are kicking as many this year. Neale has kicked quite a few, Berry kicked a few playing forward but we haven't had many goals this season from Lyons, Robbo or Clugg

Scoring in general has gone down. Used to be 80points and over would most likely win, now l would say 65ish points and over would win. Most likely due to the loss in game time.

 

[jackess]

Due to our small forwards and midfielders...
I wonder how much better we could be is our Key forwards kicked goals regularly. I think we would be putting a lot of teams to the sword

If our wings were better we'd win by more too. If our half backs were better we'd win by more as well.

Nobody is arguing against if we had better players we'd win more games but the fact we're the highest scoring team without key forwards kicking bags shows our forwardline is functioning well and we're executing our gameplan.

 

[a mayes ing]

If our wings were better we'd win by more too. If our half backs were better we'd win by more as well.

Nobody is arguing against if we had better players we'd win more games but the fact we're the highest scoring team without key forwards kicking bags shows our forwardline is functioning well and we're executing our gameplan.

Exactly "without key forwards". We are functioing well, and we probably are exectuign our gameplan, but we might be functioning even better if Fagan made a few changes and tried a few of the other guys to see if it gets better. Who knows, maybe the replacement will do great and as a result he will alter the gameplan. The gameplan is obviously to kick goals through our smalls because he knows are forwards aren't that contested style marker.