Who are the best KPP players that we'd be a chance of getting with pick 11 in the draft?
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- Thread starter CirrusC2
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Who are the best KPP players that we'd be a chance of getting with pick 11 in the draft?
Couple of threads that may be useful;
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360062 (KPPs) http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347430 (General overview).
I know nothing of this year's crop. I knew a fair bit about last year's draftees and I still think we should have taken M.Brown.
FM0226
Team Captain
I have my sights on Tom Collier. From what I heard he plays a similar style to C.Bolton. Since the FF tends to be the mobile type rather than the monster type, he will be a very good FB prospect.
Rance is another one, but I doubt he'll drop this far and still has reservations about drafting WA kids.
I think we can stay away from midfielders - we've drafted midfielders in the first round (when we have a first round pick, which is not very often recently) everytime since the Fosdike/Bolton year. Time to re-stock our talls.
Rance is another one, but I doubt he'll drop this far and still has reservations about drafting WA kids.
I think we can stay away from midfielders - we've drafted midfielders in the first round (when we have a first round pick, which is not very often recently) everytime since the Fosdike/Bolton year. Time to re-stock our talls.
Nah... just a stupid thread a supporter made saying VB would be part of the Judd deal- it was hypothetical. VB won't leave our club... he is our saviour
. He loves Adelaide I think, he's got no chance of leaving. Reilly signed a new contract this year. He admitted at first he has had trouble leaving melbourne but now he is loving it in Adelaide. I'm pretty sure he'll be a one club player.
carsoutback
Team Captain
One thing has to be remembered when thinking about Sydney's success with turning mature-age recruits into absolute guns. Nearly aLL of them had already displayed the talent to make them so. Perhaps not consistently (Hall, Cresswell, Bolton, etc) or perhaps not for some time (Lockett, Schauble, Roos, Williams, etc) but they had at one time or another. It's been rare for Sydney make something of a player who simply came with "untapped potential" who may benefit from a change of scenery. Has there ever been one? That's where Miller fits IMO. He might be a KPP, but what has he ever done aside from cannoning into smaller blokes who havent seen him coming? Don't expect Sydney to always turn shit into strawberry jam.
Collier would be a great pick up for us. Would be more than happy with that.
rancidpants13
Cancelled
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- #207
sherman, on the other hand, was 2nd in the lions' 06 B and F, and is a genuine prospect
although i rate miller, have done since he came into the league, i just think he needs a new club and new motivation
The more that we talk about Sherman the more I think we should get him. Our midfield could start looking pretty young with Sherman, O'Keefe, Bird, Schmit. Exciting time I think and with Currie coming through then we can look solely for key position players.
rancidpants13
Cancelled
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- #210
apparently jed adcock has still not re-signed with the lions, surely he'd be about the most wanted player up for grabs after judd, if that is in fact the case....although, i'd still be more than happy with sherman if we were any chance of either
Collier is a good player, very "C Bolton" like, great determination and good speed but he is not going to be a big kpp. Heres a couple of names that I think would be great lower picks in the draft for us, Todd Grima(Geel Rookie) and Scott Thompson (Geel VFL). Thompson is a M Scarlett clone and would be a great prospect at fullback, who knows how to get the ball and use it as well. Grima is a big hard working full forward, who can pinch-hit down back, with a huge motor and a bit of mongrel in him
. He leads hard and fast and would compliment H Grundy in our future forward line. I think Grima is 20 and Thompson slightly older, Geelong has an embarrsment of talls so they cant list them and IMO I think they would be great additions as both are ready to play senior footy.
. He leads hard and fast and would compliment H Grundy in our future forward line. I think Grima is 20 and Thompson slightly older, Geelong has an embarrsment of talls so they cant list them and IMO I think they would be great additions as both are ready to play senior footy.
No offence guys, but you're not going after Tenace are you? This seems like David Spriggs all over again.
some pay off some don't!
rancidpants13
Cancelled
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- #214
latest report is that we're set to trade stephen doyle (ex-south oz) to crows for mattner, who wants out.....a big win for us, i'd reckon
If we sent Doyle to Adelaide for Mattner (surely we couldn't get away with it?) and then dealt Brisbane pick 11 and, say, 44 for Sherman and Wood, I'd be absolutely stoked.
I'm uncertain about Miller. He's shown promise, is still only 24, can play at both ends and is certainly big enough for a key position. What will getting him to the club cost, though?
I don't quite get the obsession people have with keeping pick 11. We have an effective first-round pick in Craig Bird who will be our final pick in the draft. With that being the case, if we can fill a hole immediately by trading pick 11 for a youngish, established player why on earth wouldn't we?
I'm uncertain about Miller. He's shown promise, is still only 24, can play at both ends and is certainly big enough for a key position. What will getting him to the club cost, though?
I don't quite get the obsession people have with keeping pick 11. We have an effective first-round pick in Craig Bird who will be our final pick in the draft. With that being the case, if we can fill a hole immediately by trading pick 11 for a youngish, established player why on earth wouldn't we?
rancidpants13
Cancelled
- Banned
- #217
i have an opinion of miller, i think he's one of those players crying out for a new start at a new club....as for pick 11, i agree...this is supposedly not a great draft (although that's kind of meaningless) and ANY draft pick comes with an element of risk, so if we use 11 to get a proven player, someone young with lots of upside, not a recycle job like, say, travis johnstone, there's got to be plenty to recommend that
Who? Currie? What's to say that he won't go the way of Ericksen and Shaw? Whenever there's an important position in the squad expected to open up (as Everitt's is in another year) I want the security of having two players that might fill that breach.
Wood has the advantage of having proven he is AFL-capable.
Why on earth would Brisbane give up Sherman & Wood for picks #11 & #44?
Sherman is a 20 yo, under contract, who was runner up in the Lions 2006 B&F and Wood is a 20yo 204cm developing ruckman, who was drafted (from West Adelaide) at #18 originally.
If Adelaide were interested in a ruckman, why wouldn't they chase Wood (like Doyle) a local, but unlike Doyle a guy who is young & developing.
As a 19 & 20 yo Wood has played 15 games in the last 2 years, Doyle managed 7 last year, for a total of 8 in the last 3 years.
Somehow I can't see Mattner being traded for Doyle.
As for keeping pick #11, the very reason we have immediate needs is because we keep trading away early picks.
Miller has kicked a total of 34 goals in 91 matches. Now certainly he has also played down back, but it's hardly Lockettesque.
Indeed his best year as a goalkicker was in 2004, when he did play as a permanent forward and could only kick 13 goals (22 matches) for the year.
He has also never finished in Melbourne's top ten in their B&F and averages less than 11 disposals per game over his career.
No doubt Melbourne would want pick #11 for him (their stock of KPPs is even worse than ours), but on exposed form and the fact that he is 24yo (is he going to get better?) I wouldn't give up that pick for him and certainly not as a forward option.
Hell, I'd happily go with pick 11 and Buchanan... I was just thinking aloud about what my *ideal* sort of trade week might be.
It's a little hard to fathom, isn't it?
Bollocks.
It never ceases to amaze me just how much people overrate draft picks. Pick 11 is nothing but a right to a speculative investment - an investment with a higher risk/return ratio than other picks, to be sure, but speculative nonetheless.
Our nine first-round draft picks during the Eade/Roos era have been Daniel O'Keefe (on whom I will not pass any premature judgments), Josh Willoughby (who didn't get a game), Jarrad McVeigh (who is serviceable but certainly not the fifth-best player from the 2002 draft), Jude Bolton (who has certainly been worth his pick 8 from the '99 draft), Ryan Fitzgerald, who played 10 games in three years, Nic Fosdike (solid player, but we would have expected much more from pick 3 in '99), Jason Saddington, Mark Kinnear (who played four games) and Jared Crouch.
So a first-round pick is not guaranteed, by any measure, to be good value. If we can reduce the risk without reducing the return - as we have done with some first round trades such as Jason Ball, Paul Williams and Darren Jolly, then it is a good idea. Now, in 2007 for us that means a player who will walk straight into our 22 but who is still young enough to give 8-10 years of solid service.
FM0226
Team Captain
I would prefer to keep our draft pick this year because we need to draft a KPP badly. We are at a stage when there's alot of youngsters that's really for football, but not given a chance because our senior players are not retiring. Getting a AFL-ready player without trading/getting rid of one of the older players of the squad just adds to that.
A draft pick prospect that will take around 2-3 years to develop will be great for us because that's when a lot of our players are retiring. At the moment, we have one decent KP prospect in White, two if you count Grundy as well). Most other teams have 3 or 4 and their KPPs aren't as old as ours. If we actually draft a KPP for our first round pick time around (instead of a midfielder), out first round pick might actually turn into a star.
Might.
I'm not suggesting there is not merit in the 'use it to get a decent tall' argument. The point I'm trying to make is that pick 11 is not the football equivalent of a Berkshire Hathaway Class A share. First round picks are massively over-valued in the football market and the Swans should, where possible, take advantage of that fact.
Anyone who says 'pick 11 can't be traded unless we get Jonathon Brown and Gary Ablett Jnr' are either full of themselves or don't understand the simple reality that first round draft picks are a seller's market.
I'm not suggesting there is not merit in the 'use it to get a decent tall' argument. The point I'm trying to make is that pick 11 is not the football equivalent of a Berkshire Hathaway Class A share. First round picks are massively over-valued in the football market and the Swans should, where possible, take advantage of that fact.
Anyone who says 'pick 11 can't be traded unless we get Jonathon Brown and Gary Ablett Jnr' are either full of themselves or don't understand the simple reality that first round draft picks are a seller's market.
I understand your point and would agree that our selections in the first rounds have generally underperformed, whereas our latter round selections have often been gold.
By all means trade away the first round pick "..for a player who will walk straight into our 22 but who is still young enough to give 8-10 years of solid service", but my concern is the mindset we have developed of constantly trading away our first rounders.
Consider the decline in our first round trades Ball (1999), Williams (2000), Hall (2001), Jolly (2003), Richards (2005).
Williams & Hall were top liners, Ball a premiership ruckman (with WCE), then we dropped to Jolly, a second/third string ruckman with Melb and Richards a fringe player with Essendon.
We are now reportedly targeting Miller, Sherman & Tenace (http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22527883-23211,00.html), my concern is that we will fall into the trap of giving up pick #11 for Miller, who to my mind is not a player who would walk into our best 22 (and is already 24yo).
The only player we have been identified with that I would even consider trading our pick #11 for is Sherman.
FM0226
Team Captain
I agree that pick 11 is not untradable, nor will it fetch a top-caliber player. But it's more valuable to us because of our ageing issue, coupling with the fact that our youngsters can't get a game (and I'm not convinced that it's the case because they are not good enough).
Getting Sherman with it will be great, but getting Johnstone with it is idiotic. And with Bird already committed, not getting one KPP prospect in the draft this year will be disastrous in my opinion.
