Opinion Parker, Mills, Reid, Adams... best 22?

[Grand Uncle Horace]

The diminutive elephant in the room is Errol Gulden, who is currently among our top 3 most used mids on the inside, with his time in there going up by 6% from last year, but he really isn't offering a whole lot in the contest.

Yet to register a centre clearance in either game, not getting a heap of first possession relative to the other mids, not tackling much (averaging only two tackles - last year averaged 5), going at just over a clearance a game. He's getting plenty of the ball - 25 per game - but less than 25% of those touches are contested.

It's all a bit 'meh', and feels like a wasted inside rotation.

And yet in general play he's the awesome Gulden we all know and love. Elite running patterns, elite delivery by foot, smart decision-making and vision to see the whole field.

Seems to me if we can get him back out on the wing, then we'll get the best out of Gulden and we can easily fit a Parker or an Adams in there. From there it's probably at the expense of Jordon or Campbell, which would undoubtedly be harsh, but if our depth is as good as we think & hope it is, then we better get used to making such harsh calls.

2 game sample…. supposedly flu affected as well.

 

[Nuggetz]

As good (great?) as Parker, Adams and Mills have been in their careers, I'm liking the flair and mobility and pace of our current midfield. Heeney, Gulden and Warner especially and cameos from Papley add more creativity and athleticism than the aforementioned three in my opinion. Especially Adams and Parker who are at the back-end of their careers.

I'd be loathe to add more than one of those three at a time for fear of becoming too one-paced and predictable around the middle. There's always a place for a bull of an inside mid but I prefer the balance of a more dynamic midfield at the moment. How do they all fit back in? Or do they all fit back in? We'll see. I'd especially like Heeney kept predominantly in the middle where he gets more touches.

That's a good point. I think each of them has an important role to play in our team. Parker contested beast in general play, adams clearance role & mills potentially 2 way/tagging role. They can also play in different positions either resting forward (adams/parker) or defence (mills).

It's up to the coaches to get the balance right with combinations and time in certain roles. They would've had a fair idea considering Parker/Adams were involved for the majority of the pre-season.

Imo Fox/Amartey/Wicks/Campbell/Jordon/Cunningham are the 'bottom 6' in danger of losing their spots to accommodate those 3.

 

[RubbaDuck]

That's a good point. I think each of them has an important role to play in our team. Parker contested beast in general play, adams clearance role & mills potentially 2 way/tagging role. They can also play in different positions either resting forward (adams/parker) or defence (mills).

It's up to the coaches to get the balance right with combinations and time in certain roles. They would've had a fair idea considering Parker/Adams were involved for the majority of the pre-season.

Imo Fox/Amartey/Wicks/Campbell/Jordon/Cunningham are the 'bottom 6' in danger of losing their spots to accommodate those 3.

Not sure why Amartey would lose a spot being a KPP. Campbell's elite kicking allows a switch and set up of an attacking play from a wing or half back flank. Cunningham's a much underrated small defender who has lots of pace. Fox is a Swiss Army knife, so versatile he could sub himself. Jordon's development needs to continue. He was only used sparingly on the outside by Melbourne but he can win his own ball, he's got a great tank and his kicking is very good. He could become a very good hybrid midfielder.

Wicks is probably the most expendable, though he does what he does very well, as an explosive opportunistic small crumbing forward much like a lesser Papley. Wicks is a bit of a one-trick pony. If he could impact in the midfield like Papley can or if he had the overhead prowess of Hayward, his position would be safer. His best role seems to be as a sub, a small forward for when we find ourselves too tall. Coaches like players with flexibility, who can fill a number of positions. I think Adams will also remain on the fringe of our best 22.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Not sure why Amartey would lose a spot being a KPP. Campbell's elite kicking allows a switch and set up of an attacking play from a wing or half back flank. Cunningham's a much underrated small defender who has lots of pace. Fox is a Swiss Army knife, so versatile he could sub himself. Jordon's development needs to continue. He was only used sparingly on the outside by Melbourne but he can win his own ball, he's got a great tank and his kicking is very good. He could become a very good hybrid midfielder.

Wicks is probably the most expendable, though he does what he does very well, as an explosive opportunistic small crumbing forward much like a lesser Papley. Wicks is a bit of a one-trick pony. If he could impact in the midfield like Papley can or if he had the overhead prowess of Hayward, his position would be safer. His best role seems to be as a sub, a small forward for when we find ourselves too tall. Coaches like players with flexibility, who can fill a number of positions. I think Adams will also remain on the fringe of our best 22.

The one thing I think is uncertain in what you've outlined there is how Adams jigsaws in with our other pieces. If he releases other players to be their best as the coaches seem to believe Rowbottom does then it's not hard to see him as one of the early magnets. We won't know until we've seen a few games though.
Dropping one of the others will require us to restructure somewhat.
The joy of depth!

 

[lazy77]

Not sure why Amartey would lose a spot being a KPP.

Amartey would only go out if Reid came in, which I certainly wouldn't be opposed to at some point. The 2022 Reid was a much more dangerous and versatile player than the current Amartey. If he gets anywhere near that form and stays injury-free, he would be a straight upgrade on Amartey.

 

[The King!]

Adams will walk straight into this team

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Adams will walk straight into this team

I’m hoping he will actually be able to run.

 

[The King!]

I’m hoping he will actually be able to run.

If he runs into the team he might get suspended

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

If he runs into the team he might get suspended

As long as he does not limp over the line.

* hold my beer says Reid.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Amartey would only go out if Reid came in, which I certainly wouldn't be opposed to at some point. The 2022 Reid was a much more dangerous and versatile player than the current Amartey. If he gets anywhere near that form and stays injury-free, he would be a straight upgrade on Amartey.

yes, the 2022 reid would be a boost, but that might prove an experiment that costs us in terms of cohesion and momentum
amartey is a work in progress, and has endurance issues, but his best is pretty exciting, and he represents our future
reid has been a great club stalwart who's had a dreadful injury run over most of his career, but how close is he to being ready to play seniors in this team?
the way the team has started the season, i'm now inclined to hope we persist with this lineup and let amartey develop and gain confidence as part of the senior group, rather than be in and out just to see if reid's body can hold up
during preseason i really did think reid was worth a shot but i've backed away from that a bit
mills, parker and adams are the three key players we know will come back in at some point
sheldrick remains right up there (as far as i'm concerned)
but i think ladhams seems to have earned the next spot in terms of talls, if we're looking at the future both short and long term

 

[caesar88]

Our depth and competition for spots could get really interesting if one, or both, of Warner Jr and Mitchell make a real impression this weekend. Though they've both earned their looks into the senior team, realistically they are in the frame because a number of players ahead of them - Parker, Adams, Cunningham and to a lesser extent, Sheldrick - are unavailable. They are sort of just the next-best options.

But I'd love it if they could prove themselves more than that, and maybe make Horse & co's decisions even harder in the coming weeks.

There would have to be some nervous players in the 22.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Our depth and competition for spots could get really interesting if one, or both, of Warner Jr and Mitchell make a real impression this weekend. Though they've both earned their looks into the senior team, realistically they are in the frame because a number of players ahead of them - Parker, Adams, Cunningham and to a lesser extent, Sheldrick - are unavailable. They are sort of just the next-best options.

But I'd love it if they could prove themselves more than that, and maybe make Horse & co's decisions even harder in the coming weeks.

There would have to be some nervous players in the 22.

That's what Roberts has done.

 

[caesar88]

That's what Roberts has done.

True, although it sounds like he was always in the coaches' view for the 22 going back to early in the pre-season. Warner Jr. was only an emergency in Opening Round, Mitchell not even that, so not sure Horse would've been expecting them to be in the conversation for spots with names like Parker, Adams, Fox, Wicks, Jordon, Campbell etc. come round 4, but I bet he'd be pleasantly surprised by it!

That is if they impress this weekend and force that scenario. Even if they do, you suspect their inexperience probably works against them, but stranger things have happened...

 

[Kiama Chris]

True, although it sounds like he was always in the coaches' view for the 22 going back to early in the pre-season. Warner Jr. was only an emergency in Opening Round, Mitchell not even that, so not sure Horse would've been expecting them to be in the conversation for spots with names like Parker, Adams, Fox, Wicks, Jordon, Campbell etc. come round 4, but I bet he'd be pleasantly surprised by it!

That is if they impress this weekend and force that scenario. Even if they do, you suspect their inexperience probably works against them, but stranger things have happened...

I think is probably delighted with the performance of the depth players so far. But even top level players are at risk when everyone is available.
I still hope that Grundy gets rested for the Eagles game so he gets two weeks off but I'll bet he doesn't see it that way.

 

[rustycrate]

True, although it sounds like he was always in the coaches' view for the 22 going back to early in the pre-season. Warner Jr. was only an emergency in Opening Round, Mitchell not even that, so not sure Horse would've been expecting them to be in the conversation for spots with names like Parker, Adams, Fox, Wicks, Jordon, Campbell etc. come round 4, but I bet he'd be pleasantly surprised by it!

That is if they impress this weekend and force that scenario. Even if they do, you suspect their inexperience probably works against them, but stranger things have happened...

Rampe made the team under similar circumstances. Then made the spot his own.

 

[rustycrate]

I think is probably delighted with the performance of the depth players so far. But even top level players are at risk when everyone is available.
I still hope that Grundy gets rested for the Eagles game so he gets two weeks off but I'll bet he doesn't see it that way.

I'd like to see us rest players if we can throughout the season so that we have a fit and firing squad come the finals. But it won't happen.

 

[the hypnotoad]

mitchell seemed to show a bit in whatever preseason thing i saw him in, lot of energy about him, from memory
not totally sold on warner the second yet but we have to trust the coaches

 

[Wolfgang West]

Adams will walk straight into this team

Correct and it would be plain dumb to think he won’t.

 

[Wolfgang West]

mitchell seemed to show a bit in whatever preseason thing i saw him in, lot of energy about him, from memory
not totally sold on warner the second yet but we have to trust the coaches

Warner Jr had no troubles finding the ball and being where he should have been last week. Also had no trouble keeping his head over the ball. Looked a little unsure with ball in hand but that comes with more time at the level as well. At this stage though has a shit load of work to do in front of him to become a regular.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Warner Jr had no troubles finding the ball and being where he should have been last week. Also had no trouble keeping his head over the ball. Looked a little unsure with ball in hand but that comes with more time at the level as well. At this stage though has a s**t load of work to do in front of him to become a regular.

yes, he does ... but in his defence/favour, he looks far more likely than dylan stephens generally did
that may not be saying much, but you're right in that he gets to the ball and gets to the contest with far more energy and hunger
which probably says more about the wisdom (or lack of it) in drafting stephens at 5

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

If we are 6 and 0 it will be very hard to get back in.

If we are 4 and 2 or 3 and 3 then they will all likely be staggered back

1 and 5 and they come straight back in

Will be even harder to get back in when we are 26-0

 

[RubbaDuck]

Corey looked rushed. He did almost everything right except be clean with ball in hand and snag a few goals in lieu of behinds. A bit of confidence would go a long way.

I'm a Reid fan but I really want to see Amartey get where we all know he can be. His build and athleticism remind me of Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

, who was a similar age before he achieved consistency. Amartey needs to find his role within the three peak forward setup and to work on his tank.

I could see Reid stepping in to cover injury or to allow Amartey a block of training to build his fitness but Reid generally takes a few games to hit his straps. For me, Ladhams would only be in consideration if Grundy went out.

 

[RubbaDuck]

Correct and it would be plain dumb to think he won’t.

Really Wolfie? Adams will walk straight into the team "and it would be plain dumb to think he won’t" So any other opinion is dumb and there can be no debate? Yet neither you nor King have put up any arguments as to why Adams is a walk up start.

The whole point of a footy forum is to welcome opinions, even opinions that disagree with you, King (or me). The forum is a place to debate opinions, to agree or disagree and put up arguments in support of our opinions. Neither you nor King put up any argument for why Adams is a walk up start.

When the midfield is zinging, it doesn't seem at all "dumb" to wonder what Adams will add that can offset the downside of disturbing the balance of a winning team. In the immortal words of Confucius, "If it an't f_cked, don't fix it".

In what way is our midfield f_cked? What specific deficiencies do you (and King) think Adams can immediately address? How does he get us a net positive given the potential interruption to a harmonious midfield? Adams came here to play midfield time, so who has to come out of the midfield for him?

How fit does Adams have to be to make a positive difference? 100%, 90%, 75%? He's had an interrupted pre-season and he's never played with this team outside of practice games. There are several genuine reasons to wonder if he's such an obvious walk-up. My personal view is I'd like to see Adams debut as soon as he's ready, but I'm not so entirely convinced he's a walk up start that I won't entertain any other viewpoints. It's not guaranteed.

Sheldrick could be ready to play in two weeks and Parker will be re-assessed soon. At least Parker and Sheldrick have been able to run and keep their fitness up. Parker could be right to go in as little as three weeks time. Sure, it's unlikely, but if Adams isn't fully fit by the Suns game in round 6, he may be fighting Parker and Sheldrick for a spot, if there is one. Horse is going to want to get games into Sheldrick at some stage and Parker can play both midfield and forward.

There is alway room for debate without it being labelled dumb. I expect Horse invites his players and staff to put forward opinions that challenge his own. Good leaders surround themselves with smart people who challenge them. I bet the first thing he asks when confronted with a differing viewpoint is something like "Why do you say that? Explain your reasoning"

 

[RubbaDuck]

True, although it sounds like he was always in the coaches' view for the 22 going back to early in the pre-season. Warner Jr. was only an emergency in Opening Round, Mitchell not even that, so not sure Horse would've been expecting them to be in the conversation for spots with names like Parker, Adams, Fox, Wicks, Jordon, Campbell etc. come round 4, but I bet he'd be pleasantly surprised by it!

That is if they impress this weekend and force that scenario. Even if they do, you suspect their inexperience probably works against them, but stranger things have happened...

Strange things happen. How many of us wondered when (if) JJ would get his first game. He's not setting the world on fire but he's having an impact, he's reliable, consistent, a good user of the ball and he'll only grow with opportunity.

 

[RubbaDuck]

If I were a betting man (I'm not) I'd put $2 on Adams playing another game of VFL providing he pulls up well after this weekend's half game of VFL. The only reason I'm not willing to risk my $2 is we're playing the Weagles in round 4. That would seem an ideal game to introduce Adams into the senior side.