Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay Pt 2 *Pilot Greg Lynn Guilty for the Murder of Carol Clay

[Kurve]

Here is PART 1 Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

DPP v Lynn [2024] VSCA 62 (12 April 2024) INTERLOCUTORY APPEAL​

R v Lynn (Rulings 1-4) [2024] VSC 373 (28 June 2024)​

R v Lynn (Rulings 5 & 6) [2024] VSC 375 (28 February 2024)

R v Lynn (Ruling 7) [2024] VSC 376 (8 May 2024)

The Greg Lynn Police Interview Tapes (Shortened Version)

The 3.5 HR Police Interview

THREADS FOR THE HIGH COUNTRY DISAPPEARED
High Country Disappearance of Prison Boss David Prideaux
The Disappearance of Warren Meyer

2008 - Warren Meyer (23 March 2008) not found
2010 - Japp and Annie Viergever (29 March 2010) both shot & 3 dogs, house burnt.
2011 - David Prideaux (5 June 2011) not found
2017 - Kevin Tenant (17 February 2018) shot 3 times, played dead.
2019 - Conrad Whitlock (29 July 2019) not found
2019 - Niels Becker (24 October 2019) not found
2020 - Russell Hill and Carol Clay (20 March 2020) murdered

Lynn's first wife Lisa, was found dead on 26 October 1999.

 

[Terrafirma]

If the gate to the north was open he would have got away with it.

If he didn't take the phone he would have got away with it - this to me is so odd considering everything else he did. Why did he keep it? Was he hoping it would ping to create a red herring, I assumed since the Adrian Bailey case it was well understood what phones, even turned off could do.

Heck, if he didn't crack on day 3 of the police interview would they have been able to convict him of anything? Given that it was only his admission that connected his firearm to the ballistic and forensic evidence.

There is still the chance even with the gate open that he gets done on another camera somewhere else at the same time Hill's phone pings.

 

[Terrafirma]

We had a big discussion about how many phones there was because partnered/married men who keep mistresses usually have a sly phone they keep hidden in their car.

I'd figured this spare phone was on Hill's body and Lynn had two in his hand, which might have explained why he didn't know one was turned on to ping in Hotham.

Turns out there was a third mobile phone but Lynn missed it leaving it behind in Hill's vehicle and he just didn't realise he was travelling with an active phone.

Yeah thought that but well explained. This makes sense. Cheers

 

[Analysis Reactor]

Wonder how GL's unfair dismissal case with Jetstar is going.

Jetstar? The only thing Lynn will be flying is paper aeroplanes in his jail cell

 

[Zidane98]

The timeframe is supported by Hill’s radio call to his friends and the road cameras that captured Lynn’s vehicle. So he did have to clean up hurriedly and in the dark. Hence things got inevitably missed.

Also supported by him being heard raising a huge racket at the Abbeyard gate, time taken to get to Union Spur track from Wonnangatta in the dark with a trailer and the time taken from Union Spur to the resort cameras. I'd say GL's timeline was probably mostly accurate.


I presume RH's phone must have connected to the network in the trip to Union Spur as well as there is always reception on the peaks in the VHC. And also in some places along the Dargo HP road. I don't remember hearing evidence that GL's phone was picked up in the case, maybe he disabled his phone while forgetting to disable RH's phone. If he threw the phone in the burn pile every chance he would have gotten away with it.

 

[Terrafirma]

Not necessarily, a conviction isn't always required to secure a payment from VOCAT. Actioning a civil case against doesn't require a conviction either.

Civil is a whole different ball game IMO and is like opening Pandora's Box. For example in a civil scenario the house is in Melanie's name and so I don't believe they could go for the house. They can go for Lynn the man but what if he has no assets and no employment salary coming in etc.

 

[Terrafirma]

Also supported by him being heard raising a huge racket at the Abbeyard gate, time taken to get to Union Spur track from Wonnangatta in the dark with a trailer and the time taken from Union Spur to the resort cameras. I'd say GL's timeline was probably mostly accurate.


I presume RH's phone must have connected to the network in the trip to Union Spur as well as there is always reception on the peaks in the VHC. And also in some places along the Dargo HP road. I don't remember hearing evidence that GL's phone was picked up in the case, maybe he disabled his phone while forgetting to disable RH's phone. If he threw the phone in the burn pile every chance he would have gotten away with it.

Referring to the 2nd phone that Lynn didn't realise Hill had. It was the 2nd phone that pinged at Hotham not his other phone that Lynn took possession of IMO. He simply wasn't aware Hill had 2 x Phones.

 

[Badd0g]

The timeframe is supported by Hill’s radio call to his friends and the road cameras that captured Lynn’s vehicle. So he did have to clean up hurriedly and in the dark. Hence things got inevitably missed.

What I'm talking about is there is a gap of time in I dependant witness from 6:40ish (end of radio call) to around midnight (heard doing U turn) where all this could have occurred.
He says 930ish/10/11 in some reports.... But I don't believe that gave him time enough to pick up after himself as well as he did. Yeah he missed a slug and some blood splatter but it was a pretty clean sweep otherwise. You don't do that and everything else, that thoroughly, that quickly. I believe the PJs story might have lent weight to his timeline and story of doing it all in a panicked state, rather than the slow, methodical manner than I imagine it actually was done it.

 

[GrayRanga]

It would be relevant in the likelihood that RH initiated a confrontation with GL so in that manner it was definitely relevant to the case. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that could have been the case with RH. Being a grumpy bastard, his tendency to tell hunters off etc. Setting up camp right next door in the Wonnangatta itself is not what a camper would typically do. This was his territory in his eyes. That probably played a large part in the jury acquitting GL of murder, they may have formed the view that RH did accost GL and ended up dead in a fight.

Whatever the result of that altercation the facts are that CC died from GL's gun and she in no way as a third party to an altercation should be killed. Therefore the only reasonable explanation left is murder.

Mind reader are you?

Jury's deliberations are private and will forever remain private.

Provacation is not a defence in Victoria and even the death of someone even as a result of self defence can attract Gaol time.

Self defence was never raised by anybody and therefore the jury would not have considered it.

We, and the jury, don't know how Hill died. We do know he's dead as his DNA was extracted from fragments of bone at the burn site

What is the evidence presented at trial that Lynn murdered Hill under Common Law definition?

The Jury obviously didn't believe Lynn's carefully concocted narrative of that night to find him guilty of the murder of Clay.

They couldn't find him guilty of the murder of Hill beyond reasonable doubt; there's too many ways that he might have died not at the hands of Hill

A fall, a heart attack, a stroke could all could raise issues of reasonable doubt in the jury's mind.

They may have believed that Lynn killed Hill, but the evidence was not sufficient to erase all reasonable doubt

Being a grumpy old bugger is not an excuse for murder (or I'd be dead years ago)

Attempting to place the blame for the events of that night upon Hill is victim blaming

 

[Terrafirma]

Mind reader are you?

Jury's deliberations are private and will forever remain private.

Provacation is not a defence in Victoria and even the death of someone even as a result of self defence can attract Gaol time.

Self defence was never raised by anybody and therefore the jury would not have considered it.

We, and the jury, don't know how Hill died. We do know he's dead as his DNA was extracted from fragments of bone at the burn site

What is the evidence presented at trial that Lynn murdered Hill under Common Law definition?

The Jury obviously didn't believe Lynn's carefully concocted narrative of that night to find him guilty of the murder of Clay.

They couldn't find him guilty of the murder of Hill beyond reasonable doubt; there's too many ways that he might have died not at the hands of Hill

A fall, a heart attack, a stroke could all could raise issues of reasonable doubt in the jury's mind.

They may have believed that Lynn killed Hill, but the evidence was not sufficient to erase all reasonable doubt

Being a grumpy old bugger is not an excuse for murder (or I'd be dead years ago)

Attempting to place the blame for the events of that night upon Hill is victim blaming

The interesting part of this story is that Dann was trying to paint Hill as the aggressor via being grumpy or having a temper. In reality the Police already knew of Lynn's temper via all of the allegations made against him whilst married to Lisa Lynn. It was on the Coroners record. Yet we know the Police weren't allowed to use any of this during the trial. So what makes it ok for Dann to do and not the Pros. My point being the system favors the accused IMO.

We really do need a criminal law expert within these threads LOL

 

[Zidane98]

Mind reader are you?

Jury's deliberations are private and will forever remain private.

Provacation is not a defence in Victoria and even the death of someone even as a result of self defence can attract Gaol time.

Self defence was never raised by anybody and therefore the jury would not have considered it.

We, and the jury, don't know how Hill died. We do know he's dead as his DNA was extracted from fragments of bone at the burn site

What is the evidence presented at trial that Lynn murdered Hill under Common Law definition?

The Jury obviously didn't believe Lynn's carefully concocted narrative of that night to find him guilty of the murder of Clay.

They couldn't find him guilty of the murder of Hill beyond reasonable doubt; there's too many ways that he might have died not at the hands of Hill

A fall, a heart attack, a stroke could all could raise issues of reasonable doubt in the jury's mind.

They may have believed that Lynn killed Hill, but the evidence was not sufficient to erase all reasonable doubt

Being a grumpy old bugger is not an excuse for murder (or I'd be dead years ago)

Attempting to place the blame for the events of that night upon Hill is victim blaming

All of this is the reason why GL was found guilty of murder for CC, she clearly wasn't party to the confrontation between GL & RH.

No bone fragments were found of RH at the bucks camp scene - a likelihood if he was blown away considering GL pissed off in the dark. None of his blood found on the outside of his car like CC which eliminates the possibility he shot them together next to the car. Also, his blood & DNA was recovered from the accommodation that GL stayed at on his clothes. That suggests he could we have died from bleeding out in a close quarter fight with GL - the only issue being there is no way to prove how he bled out other than GL's word.

My take is the jury probably formed the opinion from the above evidence that RH was killed in an altercation with GL without being able to conclude how or why that happened. But rather than CC's shooting being an accident he murdered her to cover the whole thing up. They didn't buy the accidental shooting of CC story.

 

[Terrafirma]

What I'm talking about is there is a gap of time in I dependant witness from 6:40ish (end of radio call) to around midnight (heard doing U turn) where all this could have occurred.
He says 930ish/10/11 in some reports.... But I don't believe that gave him time enough to pick up after himself as well as he did. Yeah he missed a slug and some blood splatter but it was a pretty clean sweep otherwise. You don't do that and everything else, that thoroughly, that quickly. I believe the PJs story might have lent weight to his timeline and story of doing it all in a panicked state, rather than the slow, methodical manner than I imagine it actually was done it.

So you think it happened earlier? And he did clean up in a slow and methodical manner? If that's the case he'd be pissed off he made a mistake. I'm of the belief it happened over the drone and it was sunset at 7.25 meaning last light would of been around 7.45pm. I'm thinking Hill has landed the drone at around sunset meaning he flew it between 6.40pm last radio call to Sunset or just after, he may of had 1 hours fly time and I think he wanted it landed by dark. Lynn's story says he went to Hill as the drone landed and asked him why he was flying it? So it could of occurred at at around 7.30 to 7.45pm giving him the crucial time to clean everything methodically? How do you see it?

 

[champagnegirl]

Unravelling Lynn's story is the major challenge to coming to the truth of the events on that fateful day. It seems like there are so many lies, half truths and truths that Lynn has woven into his version that it's impossible to know when one begins and one ends.
If Hill and Clay were in their pj's per Lynn's story I don't believe the phone was in Hill's pocket. And if he had a jacket on as Dogs_ R_ Us suggests Lynn probably would have noticed that rather than the pj's and Hill surely would have put his boots on. If the pj wearing was a complete fabrication by Lynn I have no idea how it contributes to his defense, in fact it detracts from it. It baffles me that he didn't find and turn Hill's phone off earlier unless he saw Hill's other phone in the car and assumed he only had one.
Such an interesting case. I'm happy he's been convicted of at least one of the murders and here's hoping the Judge doesn't go lightly on the sentence.

From memory, his usual radio check in time was around 6.30pm. I seem to remember they spoke at 6.40pm ? So even if you allowed extra time, they could have been commitment free from say 7.15/7.30pm even earlier. So if the attack occurred earlier than PJ wearing hours, to me that gave him a lot more time to clean up. The time his vehicle was clocked after leaving the camp just means it took him longer to remove and destroy all evidence and get out to that location.

 

[Zidane98]

Yeah that one’s likely been grounded, after encountering some turbulence; a bit of a bumpy ride. Did that case even take off?

Turbulence similar to the recent SQ incident for sure.

 

[Underarrest_]

So you think it happened earlier? And he did clean up in a slow and methodical manner? If that's the case he'd be pissed off he made a mistake. I'm of the belief it happened over the drone and it was sunset at 7.25 meaning last light would of been around 7.45pm. I'm thinking Hill has landed the drone at around sunset meaning he flew it between 6.40pm last radio call to Sunset or just after, he may of had 1 hours fly time and I think he wanted it landed by dark. Lynn's story says he went to Hill as the drone landed and asked him why he was flying it? So it could of occurred at at around 7.30 to 7.45pm giving him the crucial time to clean everything methodically? How do you see it?

I kind of think the timing of GL’s version would be right re the time of the gun shots in case someone heard

 

[Terrafirma]

All of this is the reason why GL was found guilty of murder for CC, she clearly wasn't party to the confrontation between GL & RH.

No bone fragments were found of RH at the bucks camp scene - a likelihood if he was blown away considering GL pissed off in the dark. None of his blood found on the outside of his car like CC which eliminates the possibility he shot them together next to the car. Also, his blood & DNA was recovered from the accommodation that GL stayed at on his clothes. That suggests he could we have died from bleeding out in a close quarter fight with GL - the only issue being there is no way to prove how he bled out other than GL's word.

My take is the jury probably formed the opinion from the above evidence that RH was killed in an altercation with GL without being able to conclude how or why that happened. But rather than CC's shooting being an accident he murdered her to cover the whole thing up. They didn't buy the accidental shooting of CC story.

Yes it's interesting re Hill's blood found at the accommodation? So your saying Lynn couldn't have picked up that much blood by simply dealing with Hill's body? Also if he died via a knife as Lynn suggested etc what do you think was the reason Lynn says gunshots were fired into the air via Hill and himself? I think 3 gunshots, 2 x Hill after he stole the gun and 1 x gunshot when Lynn said he emptied the chamber. I think his particular shotgun was a 5 cartridge?

 

[Badd0g]

So you think it happened earlier? And he did clean up in a slow and methodical manner? If that's the case he'd be pissed off he made a mistake. I'm of the belief it happened over the drone and it was sunset at 7.25 meaning last light would of been around 7.45pm. I'm thinking Hill has landed the drone at around sunset meaning he flew it between 6.40pm last radio call to Sunset or just after, he may of had 1 hours fly time and I think he wanted it landed by dark. Lynn's story says he went to Hill as the drone landed and asked him why he was flying it? So it could of occurred at at around 7.30 to 7.45pm giving him the crucial time to clean everything methodically? How do you see it?

I'm tipping about 8.There are parts of his story I think are true and I reckon it all went down when GL returned to camp around sundown. The initial verbal stoush escalated immediately. I don't buy him returning to car, music etc.
I think he had plenty of time to clean up. Blood smears.... That job alone would have been incredibly difficult to complete to the degree he did in the dark.

 

[Zidane98]

What I'm talking about is there is a gap of time in I dependant witness from 6:40ish (end of radio call) to around midnight (heard doing U turn) where all this could have occurred.
He says 930ish/10/11 in some reports.... But I don't believe that gave him time enough to pick up after himself as well as he did. Yeah he missed a slug and some blood splatter but it was a pretty clean sweep otherwise. You don't do that and everything else, that thoroughly, that quickly. I believe the PJs story might have lent weight to his timeline and story of doing it all in a panicked state, rather than the slow, methodical manner than I imagine it actually was done it.

Didn't he throw all their stuff into the tent and ignite the gas bottle? That wouldn't take long, all of 5 minutes maybe. The splatter on the canopy, who knows. As for his gear, allow 30 minutes for packing up camp, quicker if he was motivated to get going ASAP/

With the midnight turnaround for me the 9.30/10ish timeline probably for 2 hours of frenzied cleaning / packing up and getting the hell out of dodge departing Bucks Camp approx. 11.50pm.

 

[Zidane98]

Yes it's interesting re Hill's blood found at the accommodation? So your saying Lynn couldn't have picked up that much blood by simply dealing with Hill's body? Also if he died via a knife as Lynn suggested etc what do you think was the reason Lynn says gunshots were fired into the air via Hill and himself? I think 3 gunshots, 2 x Hill after he stole the gun and 1 x gunshot when Lynn said he emptied the chamber. I think his particular shotgun was a 5 cartridge?

Not likely. Also, didn't happen with CC even though he threw both in the trailer. If RH's blood / DNA was all over GL's clothing I'd say that's fairy good evidence that RH bled out up close to GL.

 

[Terrafirma]

I'm tipping about 8.There are parts of his story I think are true and I reckon it all went down when GL returned to camp around sundown. The initial verbal stoush escalated immediately. I don't buy him returning to car, music etc.
I think he had plenty of time to clean up. Blood smears.... That job alone would have been incredibly difficult to complete to the degree he did in the dark.

Yeah agree 100% with that. The returning to car and music etc was simply to give Hill possession of the shotgun. And yes the verbal would have started immediately and Lynn's temper gone through the roof IMO

 

[Lady O]

If his phone didnt ping at the campsite (no signal) he could've just denied being there.
RHs phone was pinged and matched to 12 vehicles who travelled at the time.
What stuffed GL was the indirect route he took. But it's not a crime. If he stayed silent there wouldn't have been enough for a charge.
Reckon the police won the poker game. Even his answers it's inevitable etc. They had less than he thought.
What I find extremely weird is even thou the camp site was burnt along with some of the car it wasn't treated as suspicious until some time later. Surely burn patterns would indicate it was deliberately lit

He was becoming paranoid, remember he thought people were looking at him strange. Guilty conscience is a wonderful thing.....

 

[Terrafirma]

A free article Why Manslaughter was Taken Off the Table :

This article says that initially the Pros were told they could charge Lynn with 2 x Manslaughter. However what happened after that was the Pros believed MS was not what went down despite the lack of evidence. Basically, the defense and pros went in totally different directions:

They were also told they had the option of finding him guilty of the alternate charge of manslaughter.

However, by the end of five weeks of evidence, the prosecution and defence had taken their cases in such different directions that an option of a manslaughter conviction no longer fit with narratives being advanced by either side.

Basically the Pros wanted Guilty of Murder only, and the defense wanted Not Guilty of either

Read on: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-27/greg-lynn-manslaughter-vs-murder-conviction/104026258

 

[champagnegirl]

I kind of think the timing of GL’s version would be right re the time of the gun shots in case someone heard

But those extra gun shots might have been a decoy. Maybe he did use a knife on Hill and shot Clay earlier. Then decided later to fire off a couple. The time he was heard at the gate turning around only indicates the time he left, not the time he suddenly had 2 bodies and a crime scene.

 

[Terrafirma]

But those extra gun shots might have been a decoy. Maybe he did use a knife on Hill and shot Clay earlier. Then decided later to fire off a couple. The time he was heard at the gate turning around only indicates the time he left, not the time he suddenly had 2 bodies and a crime scene.

A decoy? wow this is getting sophisticated.!

 

[Lady O]

What I'm talking about is there is a gap of time in I dependant witness from 6:40ish (end of radio call) to around midnight (heard doing U turn) where all this could have occurred.
He says 930ish/10/11 in some reports.... But I don't believe that gave him time enough to pick up after himself as well as he did. Yeah he missed a slug and some blood splatter but it was a pretty clean sweep otherwise. You don't do that and everything else, that thoroughly, that quickly. I believe the PJs story might have lent weight to his timeline and story of doing it all in a panicked state, rather than the slow, methodical manner than I imagine it actually was done it.

Yes, I think that he could have killed them both much earlier. His talk about them messing around in the tent and wearing pjs and no shoes was to try to make the timeline fit with what he was proposing (music up high, shotgun stolen, Clay accidentally shot, Hill accidentally stabbed), when in fact they could have both been killed any time after the radio communication ended.

 

[champagnegirl]

A decoy? wow this is getting sophisticated.!

Didn’t mean it to sound like that. Apologies. Wasn’t trying to be out there. Just thought that Lynn is clearly quite calculating and who knows how much thought he put into constructing a storyline to support his actions.