Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

Can't be that narrow if he managed to turn around with the trailer on the back (eventually) after half an hour of creating a huge racket.


And if it was too narrow the logical thing to do would be to reverse until a better location was found to unhitch and turn the car around - hitch up and go.


Trying to turn around in a tight space with a trailer on the back seems the least logical thing to do for me.

It's the steepness that's the issue, you cant physically control a trailer by yourself on the incline.
I drive down from the gate to the valley a few months ago trying to figure out how he turned around, it would have been a hell of an effort.
The track doesn't get wider or flatter for ages, reversing down with a trailer at night would be very hard.

Also the track is well drained and rocky, Ive driven it in downpours and it doesn't get soft

 

[Kurve]

And can anyone figure out a logical reason for GL to exit the area via Mt Hotham vs south towards Dargo? Less traffic and people around the southern exit route for sure over exiting via Hotham.

Trying to create an alibi by getting himself tagged in Hotham?

 

[Zidane98]

It's the steepness that's the issue, you cant physically control a trailer by yourself on the incline.
I drive down from the gate to the valley a few months ago trying to figure out how he turned around, it would have been a hell of an effort.
The track doesn't get wider or flatter for ages, reversing down with a trailer at night would be very hard.

Also the track is well drained and rocky, Ive driven it in downpours and it doesn't get soft

This is W buffalo track right? I drove that years ago. IIRC theres enough room for two vehicles to squeez by each other with care.

It wouldnt be that difficult turning the trailer around using the jockey wheel. Just chock the wheels once you have it facing back towards where you came from with a log or something similar.

 

[Longmembrey]

Piece of cake. Unhitch and turn the trailer around by hand, move it to side of track. Then a simple 3/4 point turn for the vehicle, drive past the trailer, reverse and hitch up. Around 10 mins max.

Oh boy, I'm not sure if you are familiar with the tracks up there but they are very narrow, steep, rutted out, muddy at times... no chance to push a trailer by hand

 

[Longmembrey]

Fuel? There's 24hr trading fuel stops at Hotham.

No way there is 24hr fuel. Absolute ghost town

 

[Kurve]

No way there is 24hr fuel. Absolute ghost town

I googled it and found one but when I googled it the second time to be sure I clicked on the link and it turned out to be a parking lot.

 

[Longmembrey]

Trying to create an alibi by getting himself tagged in Hotham?

I think this is most likely - or to avoid leaving the burial site via the closest exit which he may have thought would be suspicious if spotted.

 

[Terrafirma]

Oh boy, I'm not sure if you are familiar with the tracks up there but they are very narrow, steep, rutted out, muddy at times... no chance to push a trailer by hand

Don't forget what was in the trailer at this stage.! Spooky just thinking about it if you have a conscience.! Talking about the trailer there's one minor item that has always bothered me, there are 2 photos, one with a flat top and another with a raised tarp. The Police have used both. The one captured by Hotham CCTV shows the flat top, how would that of worked with the bodies inside and his camping gear? The one Police put out was with a tarp?

 

[Zidane98]

I think this is most likely - or to avoid leaving the burial site via the closest exit which he may have thought would be suspicious if spotted.

How would anyone know he is leaving a burial site? Would have just been another of many dozens of 4wds going through Dargo on a Sunday morning.

 

[Irma]

What is going to be interesting to find out is when the police started their covert surveillance on Lynn. I've gone back over the three 60 Mins segments on the case, the first one with Liz Hayes was in March 2021 when we know the police already had the images of the Patrol trying to get out of the area, yet that information wasn't revealed until later around the end of October, early November and he was arrested end of November.

Of course I could be wrong but I have a suspicion that the 60 Minutes segment with Liz Hayes was part of a police media strategy designed to slowly start to build the pressure on the offender and that they maybe, already had eyes on Lynn then. If so, the information we received from that program contained strategic elements and possibly wasn't always entirely accurate.

Yeah it did seem like they were dropping bombs here and there to try and rattle the perpetrator, and looking back at it now, it seems even more obvious. I’ve always been on the fence whether there was an accomplice, I don’t think so because there’s been no further arrests, but did he speak on the phone, or in private to someone, for there to be “transcripts”? If so, who, and why? And why haven’t they been brought in? Anyway, my point is that I agree, I think they already knew way back at that first Liz Hayes program.

 

[Irma]

Police found the shovels and other items back in the April, at Hotham. They might have already been on to him then and going over his movements, or they wanted him to think they were as part of their media strategy.

Do you think it was completely staged? There’s been a few things along the way. Here’s a TV show saying someone saw you in the valley and spoke to you, you should be nervous… but did they/didn’t they?? We haven’t heard anything more to expand on that. Then the drone they found, then oops, yeah nah, false alarm folks, same drone but not Russell’s. Then suddenly oh look, here’s some suspicious looking shovels! Oops, yeah nah, snow shovels guys, not body-burying ones, sorry, carry on!!

 

[Terrafirma]

Do you think it was completely staged? There’s been a few things along the way. Here’s a TV show saying someone saw you in the valley and spoke to you, you should be nervous… but did they/didn’t they?? We haven’t heard anything more to expand on that. Then the drone they found, then oops, yeah nah, false alarm folks, same drone but not Russell’s. Then suddenly oh look, here’s some suspicious looking shovels! Oops, yeah nah, snow shovels guys, not body-burying ones, sorry, carry on!!

The shovels were dismissed straight away. Not related to the case at all. The TV Shows were part of the Police strategy for sure. There is no doubt whatever the Police were doing was working as Lynn shot off to Arbuckle Junction and it seemed he had an argument with his wife and there was concern he would self harm. He was feeling the pressure big time. I wonder if Lynn has told his council the truth or they planned his defence based on the circumstances? As for the possible staging who knows? could be the case. If he went back to the burial site as some believe and was tracked this could of been because of what the Police were doing? For example did he go back to the site after one of the TV Shows.?

 

[Thats Ambitious]

I wonder if Lynn has told his council the truth or they planned his defence based on the circumstances? ?

If Lynn has admitted to the murders to his solicitor or barrister and still wants to plead not guilty then his legal representatives cannot continue to act.
If Lynn had shown the police where the bodies where but was relying on self defence the prosecutor would likely have knocked the charge down to manslaughter to get a guilty plea.

On that basis you can probably assume that he is denying everything.

 

[FrankGrimes]

If Lynn has admitted to the murders to his solicitor or barrister and still wants to plead not guilty then his legal representatives cannot continue to act.
If Lynn had shown the police where the bodies where but was relying on self defence the prosecutor would likely have knocked the charge down to manslaughter to get a guilty plea.

On that basis you can probably assume that he is denying everything.

You sure about that?
Why couldn’t they continue to act?

 

[BigPond101]

You sure about that?
Why couldn’t they continue to act?

Lawyers can't present a case they know is a lie. If they 99 % suspect its a lie they can, but not if the client has flat out told them he did it they can't present a not guilty case.

At least that's what I've seen on America TV shows

 

[FrankGrimes]

Lawyers can't present a case they know is a lie. If they 99 % suspect its a lie they can, but not if the client has flat out told them he did it they can't present a not guilty case.

At least that's what I've seen on America TV shows

Ok thanks wasn’t aware of that, I thought they could say I did it but get me off…

 

[Irma]

Ok thanks wasn’t aware of that, I thought they could say I did it but get me off…

Nah, you’re right Frank. The lawyers job is to defend the accused and try and poke holes in the prosecutors evidence, even if the accused does admit guilt privately to them. I think they just can’t outright declare that you didnt do it though, so it probably just changes the angle they approach from. Is it moral, or ethical? Personally I couldn’t do it, but it pays well I guess.

 

[Awakening]

I accompanied a family member to a lawyer once who was innocent and keen to tell the lawyer his side of the story and the lawyer immediately interrupted and said don't tell me, I don't care if you did it or not.

He never asked what happened. He had some specific questions but no request for details.

As it turned out police didn't move forward for lack of evidence.

This wasn't a murder case though.

 

[Longmembrey]

How would anyone know he is leaving a burial site? Would have just been another of many dozens of 4wds going through Dargo on a Sunday morning.

We are talking about what Lynn's thought process was and why he left via the long way with cameras

 

[Terrafirma]

Can a Criminal Lawyer Defend Someone They Know is Guilty?​

A criminal lawyer can defend someone they know is guilty as long as they do not lie or knowingly mislead the court.

The Law Society of New South Wales governs the conduct of legal professionals and regulates their ethical standards. You can read the statement of ethics by clicking here.

If you tell your lawyer that you are guilty of a criminal offence, they can still represent you. However, if you wish to plead 'not guilty' then your lawyer cannot positively suggest that you did not commit the offence. Rather, they can only suggest that the prosecution have not proved the elements of the offence beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[utility]

Can a Criminal Lawyer Defend Someone They Know is Guilty?​

A criminal lawyer can defend someone they know is guilty as long as they do not lie or knowingly mislead the court.

The Law Society of New South Wales governs the conduct of legal professionals and regulates their ethical standards. You can read the statement of ethics by clicking here.

If you tell your lawyer that you are guilty of a criminal offence, they can still represent you. However, if you wish to plead 'not guilty' then your lawyer cannot positively suggest that you did not commit the offence. Rather, they can only suggest that the prosecution have not proved the elements of the offence beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

 

[Thats Ambitious]

A criminal lawyer can defend someone they know is guilty as long as they do not lie or knowingly mislead the court.

The 'as long as they do not lie or knowingly mislead the Court' is the key part of that.

A lawyer telling the Court "my client was one of seven men present when the victim sustained injuries and it cannot be determined that my client caused those injuries" would be ok if the defendant told their lawyer they hit someone in an all in, but not if the defendant told their lawyer that they were the only one in the fight or only one to land a punch.

Lawyers would avoid the issue altogether and hand the matter over with a bit of a wink and a nod not to ask certain questions.

 

[Zidane98]

All gone quiet again in the media. Guess thats a deliberate ploy so GL's representation cant claim unfair trial if the case does proceed to trial.

Is the January hearing the deadline for coppers to gather evidence?

 

[Terrafirma]

All gone quiet again in the media. Guess thats a deliberate ploy so GL's representation cant claim unfair trial if the case does proceed to trial.

Is the January hearing the deadline for coppers to gather evidence?

Don't think there is anything new to report on the case and that's the reason it's gone quiet. So from the last hearing we learn't a gun was used, Lynn has pleaded NOT GUILTY, Lynn will claim something as to why he used his gun and the Police have plenty of covert evidence on Lynn which the defense has yet to receive. The judge said it was unfortunate Lynn's defense had not received a brief on the evidence given the time that has elapsed. I believe the Police are buying time which doesn't mean they don't have enough yet necessarily, they believe they can get more. The way it sits with me is there was an altercation and because of this Lynn used his gun to kill Clay and Lynn. Obviously Lynn will argue he had to use his gun in self defence. Firearm forensics will play a massive part of this trial and therefore it will become very technical like the Claremont killings. In cases of real self defense most of the time the killers don't proceed to burn evidence, burn the bodies and attempt to hide the remains. Murderers do though..!