Opinion Sack Hinkley 8 - "Ask me in August"

[tribey]

I just don't understand why a competitive prelim after 11 years on the job would be a pass mark. He has had competitive prelims in 2014 and 2021 (7 years apart) with failure following in the subsequent years.

The Pass mark, for me, is not only making the Grand Final but actually coming up with the goods for me. Even then, I would still be wondering how many Premierships we could have had if there was a competent coach at the helm.

The results and outcomes are always waved away in favour of intangible gratitude for alleged feats that stopped being relevant a decade ago.

Because this is about the fifth time we’ve been positioned strongly in and around the halfway mark and it’s ended poorly, either with a collapse in the back end of the minor round (2014, 2018) or a disastrous home final (2017, 2021).

The asterisk-laden 2020 season with all its wildly incomparable markers is really the only time the team was able to maintain whatever it was it wanted to do pretty much the whole way, and even that featured the usual incompetent smashing by Geelong, and the Adelaide Oval night game/close game/big game collapse in the Richmond Prelim, where our biggest strength (contested footy) melted away at the key moment.

Fast forward to today, and 6 of the 8 wins of this streak have been by 14 points or less — with the big wins coming against the two worst teams since Fitzroy.

What’s the likely outcome here?

 

[EskimoPAFC]

The only relevant record Port Adelaide holds is to be the only club currently in the AFL that has never bottomed out and won a wooden spoon.

 

[Us against the rest]

A frightening number of our own fans buy into this schlock. It’s mystifying.

They obviously didn't grow up with the real Port Adelaide, that had edge on other teams and a belief that they could beat anyone anywhere and the bar was set at Grand Finals.

 

[tribey]

They obviously didn't grow up with the real Port Adelaide, that had edge on other teams and a belief that they could beat anyone anywhere and the bar was set at Grand Finals.

Idk man, in my online travels and personal experience, the bulk of failure-apologists/‘it’s not the SANFL anymore’/‘Hinkley and Koch saved the club’ types are people who would’ve been in their primes when Port was a colossus in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s.

It’s very strange.

 

[Us against the rest]

The only reason Hinkley is still here is because our list is good enough within itself, imagine if Ken had a list that Primus took over and that shit hole Footy Park.
Robbie gray

9

Robbie Gray

Age

36

Ht

183cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.4

5star

D

13.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

4star

D

10.4

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.4

5star

saved his bacon many times, now it's JHF and Butters, are people blind.

 

[Us against the rest]

Idk man, in my online travels and personal experience, the bulk of failure-apologists/‘it’s not the SANFL anymore’/‘Hinkley and Koch saved the club’ types are people who would’ve been in their primes when Port was a colossus in the 90’s and 00’s.

It’s very strange.

It's a very strange situation, I can only assume that these Hinkley supporters only go to games for the entertainment value and not the victory.

 

[edgie]

Idk man, in my online travels and personal experience, the bulk of failure-apologists/‘it’s not the SANFL anymore’/‘Hinkley and Koch saved the club’ types are people who would’ve been in their primes when Port was a colossus in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s.

It’s very strange.

It's like someone told them 'it's not the SANFL anymore' and they were like oh ok I get ya, but in the meantime not question why Hawthorn has been able to translate it's VFL success to AFL, or Essendon, or Richmond (eventually), or wonder why nobody tells Carlton 'it's not the VFL anymore!' after they sack their fourth coach of the decade.

 

[elbarton]

It's like someone told them 'it's not the SANFL anymore' and they were like oh ok I get ya, but in the meantime not question why Hawthorn has been able to translate it's VFL success to AFL, or Essendon, or Richmond (eventually), or wonder why nobody tells Carlton 'it's not the VFL anymore!' after they sack their fourth coach of the decade.

Are you actually suggesting that people haven’t roundly criticised Carlton for not adjusting to the AFL (non-paper bag) era? Or Essendon aren’t an insular club stuck in past glories? This is pretty much the consensus view of both clubs.

 

[edgie]

Are you actually suggesting that people haven’t roundly criticised Carlton for not adjusting to the AFL (non-paper bag) era? Or Essendon aren’t an insular club stuck in past glories? This is pretty much the consensus view of both clubs.

Essendon were pretty good in the 90s and early 2000s. Carlton have a right to sack as many coaches as they like on the path to regain their former status. The media never calls them on it. Nobody tells Essendon it's normal to not win a flag, or a final, for a while. Nobody tells Carlton that not being bottom 4 is a successful season!

 

[elbarton]

Essendon were pretty good in the 90s and early 2000s. Carlton have a right to sack as many coaches as they like on the path to regain their former status. The media never calls them on it. Nobody tells Essendon it's normal to not win a flag, or a final, for a while. Nobody tells Carlton that not being bottom 4 is a successful season!

The media irrationally hypes up both teams every year, as there is a financial incentive to do so.

If you are waiting for a just appraisal of either team from the media, you will be waiting for a very long time.

My point related to how these teams are perceived by AFL fandom (and among a small quantity of more discerning commentators). Source: literally every thread on BigFooty.

 

[Del165198]

If it makes you all feel any better, I reckon you go 6-6 home from here and drop out if the top 4. Possible elimination final loss first round and Ken will be swiftly exited.

Lol, ken will already be re-signed in August before all that happens.

 

[Cheesey Mac]

Idk man, in my online travels and personal experience, the bulk of failure-apologists/‘it’s not the SANFL anymore’/‘Hinkley and Koch saved the club’ types are people who would’ve been in their primes when Port was a colossus in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s.

It’s very strange.

In my experience it's almost always boomer types, I'm in my mid-30s and haven't met anyone younger than me who defends Ken or wants to see him retained.

I was at the pre-game yesterday in Melbourne chatting to someone about Ken and the broader coaching situation - mid-conversation a boomer Ken defender interject with "oh are you Hinkley Haters?". Aside from interjecting with a comment designed to get a reaction from us it just served to illustrate the binary that exists with them, you're either a hater or you're a true believer, never a middle ground and room for rational discussion about it. I was deliberately diplomatic and said we weren't haters, just interested in winning but you could tell they weren't open to hearing the other side.

Ken deserves credit for the work he did at the beginning of his tenure as coach, he brought us back to a level of competitiveness that had been lacking during the 2008-12 period and challenged for a GF berth, but at a certain point the welcome runs out and you're judged on what you produce, and in a sport that is premierships. That time came in 2017, it came again in 2019, and again after failing so horribly in the 2021 PF.

Plenty of these Ken defenders got to see premiership after premiership during their prime and the club be willing to make tough decisions (e.g. moving on Russell Ebert as coach, deciding to try to join the expanded VFL in the late 1980s etc) but the next generation of supporters are ingrates for wanting to see a skerrick of that sort of success by being willing to move on a guy who has taken a decade to win no silverware and burn through some very good lists.

 

[tribey]

Are you actually suggesting that people haven’t roundly criticised Carlton for not adjusting to the AFL (non-paper bag) era? Or Essendon aren’t an insular club stuck in past glories? This is pretty much the consensus view of both clubs.

Nah, I read it as nobody chides Essendon or Carlton fans/identities as deluded or unreasonable for expecting more than their last 20 years lot in life.

Warren f#%king Tredrea was painted as a disgusting lunatic launching an unwarranted assault on Mother Theresa after the Collingwood/Showdown fortnight, ffs.

Ronny De Iulio could call for Voss’ head today and media street would be like, “fair call, Ronald”.

 

[Winganeen]

Relax guys

 

[PowerLil]

In my experience it's almost always boomer types, I'm in my mid-30s and haven't met anyone younger than me who defends Ken or wants to see him retained.

I was at the pre-game yesterday in Melbourne chatting to someone about Ken and the broader coaching situation - mid-conversation a boomer Ken defender interject with "oh are you Hinkley Haters?". Aside from interjecting with a comment designed to get a reaction from us it just served to illustrate the binary that exists with them, you're either a hater or you're a true believer, never a middle ground and room for rational discussion about it. I was deliberately diplomatic and said we weren't haters, just interested in winning but you could tell they weren't open to hearing the other side.

Ken deserves credit for the work he did at the beginning of his tenure as coach, he brought us back to a level of competitiveness that had been lacking during the 2008-12 period and challenged for a GF berth, but at a certain point the welcome runs out and you're judged on what you produce, and in a sport that is premierships. That time came in 2017, it came again in 2019, and again after failing so horribly in the 2021 PF.

Plenty of these Ken defenders got to see premiership after premiership during their prime and the club be willing to make tough decisions (e.g. moving on Russell Ebert as coach, deciding to try to join the expanded VFL in the late 1980s etc) but the next generation of supporters are ingrates for wanting to see a skerrick of that sort of success by being willing to move on a guy who has taken a decade to win no silverware and burn through some very good lists.

Well I'm a boomer (just) and my whole group is a combination of boomers and families and we're all united in #sackhinkley

 

[Cheesey Mac]

Well I'm a boomer (just) and my whole group is a combination of boomers and families and we're all united in #sackhinkley

I appreciate it read as a generalisation and while I didn't say all boomers are pro-Ken I understand it read that way. Just basing it on my experience in real life and online they're generally the ones defending him.

I know plenty who want to see the back of him as well, sat next to a really nice older person at the gather round who wants him gone (took a moment for us to work out we were both on the same side before launching into the conversation wholeheartedly), but yeah, everyone younger than me who I've spoken to are all happy to see him go.

There are good ones out there as well.

 

[Macca_1870]

I think a competitive prelim would be the pass mark for me. if we make it and get thumped again, then he needs to go. another close one like 2020 or 2014 and i would be ok with him staying, provided we can keep the support staff we currently have. but i would also be ok with him going.



if this is the case why not just announce it. if carr really is doing the heavy lifting as the coach, the players would know it. the coaching staff would know it. if this truly is a succession plan then just come out with it and then threads like this can die.

Nope. A competitive prelim has been done in this journey. Twice.

Give us our players sipping waters on Brownlow night, taking a paddle boat down the Yarra on a Friday & watch our logo being painted on the 50m arc of the G.

Give us something that we haven't had under this regime. As supporters, we need to demand that.

 

[tribey]

Give us our players sipping waters on Brownlow night, taking a paddle boat down the Yarra on a Friday & watch our logo being painted on the 50m arc of the G.

Holy sh¡t man, it moved.

You couldn’t write speeches for David ‘we are a battling widdle club’ Koch, could you?

 

[Jojay]

Just listening to Whateley and King re this whole 'will they, won't they' re-sign him.

Lol it's a done deal according to Whateley - he is coaching better than ever "outstanding tutelage of the next generation".

I hate to say it but Tredders has inadvertently *ed us over.

 

[JimmyBC]

Just listening to Whateley and King re this whole 'will they, won't they' re-sign him.

Lol it's a done deal according to Whateley - he is coaching better than ever "outstanding tutelage of the next generation".

I hate to say it but Tredders has inadvertently *ed us over.

Why worry about Whateley? the only bloke in that conversation that played the game was King & he disagreed.

"outstanding tutelage of the next generation" he equates football to some nerdburger lecturer he had while spending his entire youth indoors.

 

[Willsy10]

I wish we could just make a decision at the end of the season without it needing to be discussed ad nauseam.

 

[johnnysix]

Idk man, in my online travels and personal experience, the bulk of failure-apologists/‘it’s not the SANFL anymore’/‘Hinkley and Koch saved the club’ types are people who would’ve been in their primes when Port was a colossus in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s.

It’s very strange.

I dunno. I think there are just those people with an in-built predisposition to "fan out". These are the people you see well into their middle age and beyond putting people, teams and bands on a pedestal. I'm talking, 'can do no wrong' , 'beyond criticism' type fans. These are people who want to avoid engaging in serious logical and scientific critique because it somehow makes you more of a fan. I mean, the concept that 'blind faith' holds greater rewards is hardly a new one. When we finally win that elusive second premiership won't it feel just all the more sweeter because you 'stuck by 'em' and your faith never wavered? No? To these people The Port Adelaide Football Club isn't an idea, an ethos or a monolithic, ageless sporting entity.... no, they NEED it to be about those faces and those people. they don't see the forest for the trees.

 

[TeeKray]

Kingy, as he does, oscillates on this issue.

Today he called Ken a "non winner", which is as close as anyone in the media will get to calling him a loser lol.

 

[BornPort]

Listening to King try and talk sense to Whateley was ****ing painful.

 

[simba_]

willingly listening to David King and then posting about it should get you a 2 week ban