News Sam Hayes signs for North Melbourne VFL

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I think it was pretty literally what Philthy says. They decided they didn't want a tap focused ruckman and they'd prefer to lose the taps and play a player who can get involved in link up play, and Hayes was never going to be a ball carrying player. I think he initially fought hard to win his spot back but now he's seen the writing on the wall and he's lost motivation.

Another similar incident is not letting Trengove go back to defence because we didn't think he could play the intercept focused team defence that we'd implemented while we were using him in the ruck (something I really disagree with, we effectively threw a very mobile key position defender on the scrapheap instead of letting him learn the system and adapt. I firmly believe he cold have been the missing link over the last half a decade)

Yep. People like to pull the “he’s not fit enough and that’s why they’re not picking him” card but there’s zero evidence to support that, it’s just an echo chamber assumption. If anything in his bnf year for the Maggie’s he covered the ground fine, and the poster (who I can’t recall) that tried to post some in depth stats to burn Hayes showed Hayes got to as many ruck contests as prime lycett was getting to lol.

This doesn’t mean I think he’s real fit, but there’s no suggestion that it’s an issue in his game or that it is the reason why he’s not getting picked. If it was an issue … what the **** would his returns be if he did get fit lol. 80 hitouts?


What we do have evidence of is that Hayes is well behind lycett in clearance and ground ball winning ability, and the ability to get involved in chains of play. He just doesn’t follow up, doesn’t get down when the ball is there and doesn’t tackle all that much after the ruck.

These are the things that we know from years of listening to Hinkley that he likes, we know lycett does well, that our coaches celebrated when finlayson had that stretch in ruck. We also are opting to put mids into the ruck at times over many other tall options in our team.

Hayes isn’t getting picked because Hinkley rates those things that Hayes is poor at as important, and doesn’t rate hitouts as worth anything much.

And I think he’s wrong.

Years of watching lycett getting 15d on a good day where 99% of those touches are either links in handball play that aren’t very valuable or dinky handpasses inside the contest to another port player like wines who’s immediately under pressure and has to either do another under pressure handpass to another nearby player or a rushed kick in hope

At lycetts peak we moaned about our midfield constantly being under pressure shovelling handpass after handpass until we turn it over or kick to a forward line that’s had forever and a day to set up to cover the kick

Meanwhile the other way we watch the other teams midfield waltz out of midfield cleanly and quickly and get it to a 1 on 1 contest before we can blink much less set up there how we like.

During these times I constantly pointed out our rucks inability to get clear hitouts to advantage and preference to knock the ball down inside the contest (if he got to it at all) and our slow midfielders not being explosive enough to exit a stoppage. Why I was very vocal before when rozee was forward that he must become a mid.

Now we’ve addressed one half of the issue, and how much better does our midfield look getting the ball out? You can see the quality of clearances is far better with mids who can get away from congestion.

The other half is a ruck who can put the ball on the best place for our mids to get it out as often as possible.
 
... Ladhams, Hayes, Lycett, and Straughn absolutely slaughter their opponent ... every ... single ... week ... in the SANFL ....
Ladhams is in his second year at Sydney.
Hayes is in footy limbo. If in a non-AFL associated SANFL team would be in their reserves
Lycett had a brief ineffective performance in the SANFL after being dropped and then was injured
I don't know who Straughn is. Just testing us there?
 
Yep. People like to pull the “he’s not fit enough and that’s why they’re not picking him” card but there’s zero evidence to support that, it’s just an echo chamber assumption. If anything in his bnf year for the Maggie’s he covered the ground fine, and the poster (who I can’t recall) that tried to post some in depth stats to burn Hayes showed Hayes got to as many ruck contests as prime lycett was getting to lol.
He was up against Larry, Mo and Curly in his B & F year - I'm not sure why you keep using it as some kind of feat of greatness.
 

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He was up against Larry, Mo and Curly in his B & F year - I'm not sure why you keep using it as some kind of feat of greatness.

What do you mean by this?

He was genuinely very good that year and from memory was coming up against rucks like Strahan hannath brooksby redden etc who are no slouches (every single one of them would mop the floor with teakle with their eyes closed)

I’m not sure why you need to try to rewrite history here.


Basically Hayes = outstanding dinosaur type ruck

Hinkley = dislikes that type of ruck


And now we’re in the situation we are in where our previous number one ruck who at his best was a serviceable battler has gone to shit, we traded away a young ruck for reasons that may not be wrong but have left us here, and are left playing the rawest ruck that’s ever played afl games in a league that featured a Canadian and an American that took up the sports 10 mins after they arrived in the country
 
What do you mean by this?

He was genuinely very good that year and from memory was coming up against rucks like Strahan hannath brooksby redden etc who are no slouches (every single one of them would mop the floor with teakle with their eyes closed)

I’m not sure why you need to try to rewrite history here.


Basically Hayes = outstanding dinosaur type ruck

Hinkley = dislikes that type of ruck


And now we’re in the situation we are in where our previous number one ruck who at his best was a serviceable battler has gone to s**t, we traded away a young ruck for reasons that may not be wrong but have left us here, and are left playing the rawest ruck that’s ever played afl games in a league that featured a Canadian and an American that took up the sports 10 mins after they arrived in the country
What I mean is the top 5 in our B & F that year were Hayes, Garner, Lienert, Sutcliffe and Woodcock - you continually referring to Hayes as a B & F player is accurate yet really not of a standard of our previous era's winners.
 
Ladhams is in his second year at Sydney.
Hayes is in footy limbo. If in a non-AFL associated SANFL team would be in their reserves
Lycett had a brief ineffective performance in the SANFL after being dropped and then was injured
I don't know who Straughn is. Just testing us there?

He's Adelaide's SANFL ruckman. SANFL ruck stocks are shit. If you're not demolishing them every week then you're not good.
 
Ladhams is in his second year at Sydney.
Hayes is in footy limbo. If in a non-AFL associated SANFL team would be in their reserves
Lycett had a brief ineffective performance in the SANFL after being dropped and then was injured
I don't know who Straughn is. Just testing us there?

Straunie actually looked half decent in the times he got an AFL call up last year.

His first game was one of the worst I've ever seen, but after that he's averaged 13 disposals and 25 hitouts. Nothing earth shattering, but better than tinkle is.
 
I think it was pretty literally what Philthy says. They decided they didn't want a tap focused ruckman and they'd prefer to lose the taps and play a player who can get involved in link up play, and Hayes was never going to be a ball carrying player. I think he initially fought hard to win his spot back but now he's seen the writing on the wall and he's lost motivation.

Another similar incident is not letting Trengove go back to defence because we didn't think he could play the intercept focused team defence that we'd implemented while we were using him in the ruck (something I really disagree with, we effectively threw a very mobile key position defender on the scrapheap instead of letting him learn the system and adapt. I firmly believe he cold have been the missing link over the last half a decade)

Imagine being a goal down with 3 minutes left and your players are lining up with Teakle and all standing on the defensive side.

But it's okay because we're ready to defend and rebound lead by Tom Jonas
 
He was up against Larry, Mo and Curly in his B & F year - I'm not sure why you keep using it as some kind of feat of greatness.

Talking down his 2021 SANFL season is embarassing revisionist hogwash.

He led the league in hitouts that year and comfortably so.

As well as averaging 34 hitouts, he averaged 14 touches, 5 marks, 3 clearances and 3 inside 50s. Elite numbers. The only arguably better ruckman in the SANFL that season was Strachan from the Crows who is 4 years older.
 

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Talking down his 2021 SANFL season is embarassing revisionist hogwash.

He led the league in hitouts that year and comfortably so.

As well as averaging 34 hitouts, he averaged 14 touches, 5 marks, 3 clearances and 3 inside 50s. Elite numbers. The only arguably better ruckman in the SANFL that season was Strachan from the Crows who is 4 years older.

Yeah but the durries disqualifies him from reaching carbon neutral status.
 
the other thing that irks me.. if we’ve written Hayes off before coming into this season, which it looks like we did , dropping him last year , never bringing him back into the side, then shunting him to a pocket from day 1 this season..

…. Why the **** didn’t we invest in a ruck in a ruck heavy draft with Sa talent?

We could have had verrall for peanuts.


I can only assume that the call was made that lycett would be our man this year, and during the year we would find out if teakle and Dante are the heir apparent…

Which was a dumb call … and not just in hindsight.. the writing was well and truly on the wall last year that lycett was finished.


This years draft im not hearing much about the rucks. There’s absolutely no one coming through for Sa in the ruck this year according to draft watchers or as far as I can see.

Likewise I’m not hearing much about vic rucks either. The only big name ruck I’ve heard is the wa lad, who will be sought after , especially if rucks are as few as it appears right now.
 
the other thing that irks me.. if we’ve written Hayes off before coming into this season, which it looks like we did , dropping him last year , never bringing him back into the side, then shunting him to a pocket from day 1 this season..

…. Why the * didn’t we invest in a ruck in a ruck heavy draft with Sa talent?

We could have had verrall for peanuts.


I can only assume that the call was made that lycett would be our man this year, and during the year we would find out if teakle and Dante are the heir apparent…

Which was a dumb call … and not just in hindsight.. the writing was well and truly on the wall last year that lycett was finished.


This years draft im not hearing much about the rucks. There’s absolutely no one coming through for Sa in the ruck this year according to draft watchers or as far as I can see.

Likewise I’m not hearing much about vic rucks either. The only big name ruck I’ve heard is the wa lad, who will be sought after , especially if rucks are as few as it appears right now.

You can't even really get out of our problem by drafting at this point. A ruck we draft today unless we're spending a top 5 pick is several years away, and we have some promising rucks on our list.

We're almost certainly going to have to trade for one or pick one up in the free agency. Which again, we'll have to pay overs to do.
 
You can't even really get out of our problem by drafting at this point. A ruck we draft today unless we're spending a top 5 pick is several years away, and we have some promising rucks on our list.

We're almost certainly going to have to trade for one or pick one up in the free agency. Which again, we'll have to pay overs to do.
I would try get Moyle from the suns.
 
Oh for a return to the days when we had 3 quality ruckmen in Primus, Lade and Brogan, plus a 4th very handy back up in Banarnaby French who could also pinch hit at chf if required, and from memory the latter two were both acquired through the rookie draft.

Re the sometime lack of availability of quality ruckmen through the various state league systems, I can recall Glenelg playing an ex vfl ruckman against the Maggies at Alberton 7 or 8 years ago who was listed in the budget at 32 years of age, and was playing in only his 2nd or 3rd sanfl game.
 
Talking down his 2021 SANFL season is embarassing revisionist hogwash.

He led the league in hitouts that year and comfortably so.

As well as averaging 34 hitouts, he averaged 14 touches, 5 marks, 3 clearances and 3 inside 50s. Elite numbers. The only arguably better ruckman in the SANFL that season was Strachan from the Crows who is 4 years older.
Apart from anything else winning a BnF as a ruckman is an achievement in itself.
 

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News Sam Hayes signs for North Melbourne VFL

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