Coach Sam Mitchell - where is the pressure?

[BigVic]

A winless start to the season and at the foot of the table for Hawthorn after beginning a season I thought they'd be a surprise finalist.

Instead the Hawks are not the team I thought they'd be capable of taking the next step and are at the bottom. No pressure on Sam Mitchell yet to turn the club around.

 

[Chadwiko]

Check the 'Next coach fired' thread - some of us said there would be pressure on Sam Mitchell.

 

[Underarm]

Bucks took a side that lost a GF, and took 6 years to win more games than the previous year.

Favourite suns that you fired a premiership coach for will always get a longer leash.

 

[JackFlash]

If he loses to the Roos, then the pressure valve is on full.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

I actually believe he's doing a good job all things considered.

Took over an absolute joke of a list post Clarko putting everything on the credit card, and has at least managed to make it look average with a couple shining lights.

The pressure will come when Hawthorn supporters start predicting finals like some have this year. They were never going to get close.

Like anything, it comes back to expectation.

If you acknowledge he's had to build a list from rock bottom and know that he's still got a long way to go, then he's doing well.

If you're deluded into thinking he should be doing better with what he's got at his disposal...then obviously there's going to be pressure.

If you gave Mitchell the Giants, Swans, Cats, Port, or Lions list then his coaching nous would show IMO.

Unfortunately, Hawthorn are a long way off that and it looks like he's going to suffer the fate of 90% of rebuilding coaches, which mainly comes from supporters expecting too much too soon.

 

[RoughysMullet]

A winless start to the season and at the foot of the table for Hawthorn after beginning a season I thought they'd be a surprise finalist.

Instead the Hawks are not the team I thought they'd be capable of taking the next step and are at the bottom. No pressure on Sam Mitchell yet to turn the club around.

Sam’s had to turn over more than half the list since 2021- take a look at it- was full of spuds recruited by Clarko and aging veterans…https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2021/hawthorn

No coach can turn things around that quickly in the modern game… we’ll need some of our players under 50 games to gain more experience…

We’ve missed out on some of the top quality players from the drafts due to FS, academy and compensation picks meaning we’ll have to keep going to the draft to add more quality- it will just take time…

 

[MF]

A winless start to the season and at the foot of the table for Hawthorn after beginning a season I thought they'd be a surprise finalist.

The problem here is your expectations. I have no idea why anyone thought Hawthorn would be playing finals this year.

At best I thought they'd win 7 or 8 games and get out of the bottom 4. A long term rebuild is what's required there.

 

[Lia]

Any thought of Hawthorn being "surprise finalists" was and is ludicrous. They are firmly in the bottom 3 with North and West Coast, and probably out performed last year in getting 7 wins.

So with that being said, any talk about Sam Mitchell being under pressure is also crazy.

 

[Back One Out]

A winless start to the season and at the foot of the table for Hawthorn after beginning a season I thought they'd be a surprise finalist. Instead the Hawks are not the team I thought they'd be capable of taking the next step and are at the bottom. No pressure on Sam Mitchell yet to turn the club around.

Sam Mitchell has literally had every AFL panel show on his case since the Saturday night debacle. All the pundits have questioned his methods... questioned the game plan... remarked that he looks rattled.... and said the Hawks have gone backwards this year... Many Hawks fans have also started to turn on him and blamed him for our woes this season.

A day later, you decide to start a thread asking "Where is the pressure on Mitchell?"
You're probably the 10,000th person to join in the Mitchell pile-on. Congrats on your timing and originality!

Anyway, what more do you want? Would you like Fox Footy to produce a 1 hour exposé on Mitchell's crap coaching, highlighting every skill error and missed tackle we've made this year? Would you like every journo at his next press conference to ask him if he will resign if/when we lose to North? Would you like an angry mob with pitchforks to throw rocks at his house?

 

[Back One Out]

Any thought of Hawthorn being "surprise finalists" was and is ludicrous. They are firmly in the bottom 3 with North and West Coast, and probably out performed last year in getting 7 wins.

Not sure why people on here keep harping on about this. Sure, Hawthorn has some deluded, blindly-optimistic fans. No different to every other club. I guess people on Big Footy like to zero in on the batshit crazy posts from opposition nuffies. They take this small sample and brand the entire fanbase as deluded.

Most Hawks fans don't even bother to vent their spleen and post negatively about the team. Call it a tactical retreat.
Just like the match day attendance drops off when a team goes to shite, so too does the traffic on Big Footy.

The vast majority of us know that we are one of the struggling bottom four teams.
There were a lot of us who saw the draw and predicted we would be 0-5 if we lost our first game vs Essendon

Many are now wondering whether we'll collect our first wooden spoon since 1965, or if we can get our s**t together in the second half of the season like we did in 2023 with 6 wins, 8 losses after our dismal 1-8 start.

 

[jj1978]

He'll be Hawks version of Brendan Bolton. Take the hits, blood kids, fix any culture issues and then probably get knifed by another coach or the board will succumb to pressures from members and media and do the inevitable.

Or much like Hawks in their recent dynasty... fall of a cliff for a few years, prepare the list well prior to a new franchise coming in and decimating things for other teams and reap the rewards of peaking at a good time.

 

[Smithdogmaddog]

Clarko ****ed the list and everyone knows that

It’ll take a long time to undo the trading for omerea and wingard

 

[LifestyleSaints]

Sam Mitchell is a genius!!!

 

[The 747]

I think he's discovering that coaching is not as easy as he thought it would be.

But will get a pretty long rope since not even the Hawks fans are looking closely at his coaching.

 

[wizzard400]

Unfortunately I think a lot of the players are drinking their own bath water after the second half of last season (maybe some supporters too).

In the first half of last season, despite some heavy losses, you could see the effort was there and see what we were trying to do - and the media still came hard. Allegations of tanking etc.

The problem at the moment seems to be the lack of effort and toughness.

It will be interesting to see how Sam and the coaching group go from here. Maybe this is the kick up the back side the playing group needs?

 

[Roddy]

If you haven't seen the media blowtorch being applied to Sammy and us this week, you must be walking around with a blindfold on and your ears stuffed with cotton wool....

 

[Freomaniac]

Sam Mitchell is a genius!!!

no he is not.

He isnt ken hinkley

 

[Smithdogmaddog]

Sam deciding to focus on offence instead of defence when starting the rebuild with what I think is the least top end talented list I can remember in my time watching football and unlike most other successful coaches who started a rebuild with defensive focus and trying not to get smashed, improve percentage year on year and slowly add offensive layers could ultimately be his downfall.

He was on a hiding to nothing because once Fagan and others left hawthorn Clarko became a dictator and made brain dead recruiting decision with no one to adequately question him.

 

[rapidfire7]

I rate him as a coach and tactician and he is only going to get better. Been killed by injuries this year on a list which was already lacking a bit of talent thanks to the reckless final years of Alistair Clarkson

 

[boncer34]

I rate him as a coach and tactician and he is only going to get better. Been killed by injuries this year on a list which was already lacking a bit of talent thanks to the reckless final years of Alistair Clarkson

I'm aware the narrative has now become that wonder coach Sam Mitchell has been hamstrung by his predecessor, for obvious reasons, and that's certainly true. But Sam has also overseen the following:

• Happily dished out Ceglar only to bizarrely bring in an arguable worse replacement in Max Lynch. And threw in the Hawks third rounder on top of the third rounder they got for Ceglar from Geelong.
• Moved Tom Mitchell on for a bloke who can't get a game, leaving an already inexperienced midfield completely bereft of experience or leadership.
• Gave up a 2nd and 3rd rounder to move up from pick 27 to pick 18.
• Paid a 2nd round pick to give Chol 4 years who was subject to Bronx cheers from Hawks fans yesterday.
• Drafted a promising KPF in the MSD draft only to ship him off to Brisbane so that Mitchell could give his mate another contract. This on top of moving on another forward who kicked 15 goals in 11 games last year.
• Bought a small forward in via trade and then doubled down by drafting another instead of using the draft pick to bolster any other area that was lagging. In isolation grabbing Ginni or Watson is perfectly fine but getting both at the same time is weird.

 

[random260]

Just to add fuel to the fire. Remember he was under the teacher Adam Simpson.


So his rebuild should align with wce rebuild. All his tricks are Simmos tricks

 

[rapidfire7]

I'm aware the narrative has now become that wonder coach Sam Mitchell has been hamstrung by his predecessor, for obvious reasons, and that's certainly true. But Sam has also overseen the following:

• Happily dished out Ceglar only to bizarrely bring in an arguable worse replacement in Max Lynch. And threw in the Hawks third rounder on top of the third rounder they got for Ceglar from Geelong.
• Moved Tom Mitchell on for a bloke who can't get a game, leaving an already inexperienced midfield completely bereft of experience or leadership.
• Gave up a 2nd and 3rd rounder to move up from pick 27 to pick 18.
• Paid a 2nd round pick to give Chol 4 years who was subject to Bronx cheers from Hawks fans yesterday.
• Drafted a promising KPF in the MSD draft only to ship him off to Brisbane so that Mitchell could give his mate another contract. This on top of moving on another forward who kicked 15 goals in 11 games last year.
• Bought a small forward in via trade and then doubled down by drafting another instead of using the draft pick to bolster any other area that was lagging. In isolation grabbing Ginni or Watson is perfectly fine but getting both at the same time is weird.

All valid points.

However, I'm not sure that Mitchell has had anywhere near the level of control regarding list management, compared to what Clarkson had toward the end.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

I'm aware the narrative has now become that wonder coach Sam Mitchell has been hamstrung by his predecessor, for obvious reasons, and that's certainly true. But Sam has also overseen the following:

• Happily dished out Ceglar only to bizarrely bring in an arguable worse replacement in Max Lynch. And threw in the Hawks third rounder on top of the third rounder they got for Ceglar from Geelong.
• Moved Tom Mitchell on for a bloke who can't get a game, leaving an already inexperienced midfield completely bereft of experience or leadership.
• Gave up a 2nd and 3rd rounder to move up from pick 27 to pick 18.
• Paid a 2nd round pick to give Chol 4 years who was subject to Bronx cheers from Hawks fans yesterday.
• Drafted a promising KPF in the MSD draft only to ship him off to Brisbane so that Mitchell could give his mate another contract. This on top of moving on another forward who kicked 15 goals in 11 games last year.
• Bought a small forward in via trade and then doubled down by drafting another instead of using the draft pick to bolster any other area that was lagging. In isolation grabbing Ginni or Watson is perfectly fine but getting both at the same time is weird.

1) Yeah, not great but ultimately meaningless given neither ended up doing much
2) Mitchell was well and truly cooked and stopping the progress of other mids. Happy for him he got the flag at the Pies
3) Yep, don't get that one
4) Chol was brought in as the replacement for Jacob Koschitzke - as amazing as it sounds, he's been an upgrade (he's already kicked the same number of goals this year than poor old Kosi who can't crack it for a game at the Tiges)
5) Ryan still can't crack the Lions forward line - he was offered a three year deal which looks like overs at the moment. Brockman moved back due to family reasons - it would have been a prick move to stop him going back to WA
6) We also have O'Sullivan and Bennetts who have performed really well at Box Hill and should have debuted by now

The last point is more of the issue. The development at Hawthorn has stalled and in a number of cases, players seem to have gone backward (see Newcombe, McDonald, Nash et al). We are the worst side at figuring out what to do with the sub. Our midfield relies on a mid draft pick (Worpel), a MSD pick (Newcombe) and a category B rookie pick (Nash). Day has A-grade potential but the others, simply don't have the skills to be elite. Our full back is a Melbourne cast-off (Frost), our secondary key forward is a Gold Coast/Richmond cast-off (Chol), our number one ruck is a Fremantle cast-off (Meek, who in all fairness has busted a gut all year and been one of our better players). Our major key forward can't get on the park (Lewis) and neither can the bloke who at least give us some dash (Jiath).

Clarkson's strength wasn't development. It was putting the pieces of a puzzle together, taking players that were no longer required at other clubs and slotting them together into a ruthless, efficient machine. Brad Hill is the only player that comes to mind that really grew under Clarkson - the rest were already there (Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Lewis, Roughead, Birchall, Williams, Bateman) or came in from other clubs (Burgoyne, Lake, Hale, Gibson, McEvoy). Rioli was a ready made player - he debuted round one of his first season.

And unfortunately, I think that's where we sit as a club at the moment because Mitchell is in the same boat. The difference is he didn't have the elite talent to build on and then the hook to get those elite players from other clubs in. IMHO, Mitchell has got to admit that the current midfield is not up to it, put the top 10 draft picks we've had in there (Josh Ward for example) and let them learn the craft. Because the current set up is not working - I'd rather try something new then go with the same rubbish that we've dished up this year.

Rant over.

​

 

[Mat Mann]

Wouldnt of thought he would be under any pressure, all you can expect from him atm is to see kids improving year on year.
Hawks have got a tough 2-3 years ahead and that's the reality, Draft and churn is the only solution

 

[BuddysBiggestFan]

1) Yeah, not great but ultimately meaningless given neither ended up doing much
2) Mitchell was well and truly cooked and stopping the progress of other mids. Happy for him he got the flag at the Pies
3) Yep, don't get that one
4) Chol was brought in as the replacement for Jacob Koschitzke - as amazing as it sounds, he's been an upgrade (he's already kicked the same number of goals this year than poor old Kosi who can't crack it for a game at the Tiges)
5) Ryan still can't crack the Lions forward line - he was offered a three year deal which looks like overs at the moment. Brockman moved back due to family reasons - it would have been a prick move to stop him going back to WA
6) We also have O'Sullivan and Bennetts who have performed really well at Box Hill and should have debuted by now

The last point is more of the issue. The development at Hawthorn has stalled and in a number of cases, players seem to have gone backward (see Newcombe, McDonald, Nash et al). We are the worst side at figuring out what to do with the sub. Our midfield relies on a mid draft pick (Worpel), a MSD pick (Newcombe) and a category B rookie pick (Nash). Day has A-grade potential but the others, simply don't have the skills to be elite. Our full back is a Melbourne cast-off (Frost), our secondary key forward is a Gold Coast/Richmond cast-off (Chol), our number one ruck is a Fremantle cast-off (Meek, who in all fairness has busted a gut all year and been one of our better players). Our major key forward can't get on the park (Lewis) and neither can the bloke who at least give us some dash (Jiath).

Clarkson's strength wasn't development. It was putting the pieces of a puzzle together, taking players that were no longer required at other clubs and slotting them together into a ruthless, efficient machine. Brad Hill is the only player that comes to mind that really grew under Clarkson - the rest were already there (Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Lewis, Roughead, Birchall, Williams, Bateman) or came in from other clubs (Burgoyne, Lake, Hale, Gibson, McEvoy). Rioli was a ready made player - he debuted round one of his first season.

And unfortunately, I think that's where we sit as a club at the moment because Mitchell is in the same boat. The difference is he didn't have the elite talent to build on and then the hook to get those elite players from other clubs in. IMHO, Mitchell has got to admit that the current midfield is not up to it, put the top 10 draft picks we've had in there (Josh Ward for example) and let them learn the craft. Because the current set up is not working - I'd rather try something new then go with the same rubbish that we've dished up this year.

Rant over.

​

But our top 10 draft picks in the last 5 years have been rubbish.

So recruiters are to blame! Get rid of the lot. How does the board not see this???

Also, How the **** does Nash get a game? Because of his tackling? Absolutely useless disposal with his foot.