Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[SSSSSS]

Never a fan of Clarko's gameplan in the latter part of his tenure with us but the knowledge and experience embedded in the playing group is going to help us kill some games off in the future.

 

[KermitJagger]

If anyone wasn’t sure of whether we were playing to our ability or not over the last 2-3 years, that really should’ve been answered when we took it up to the Lions, Swans, Dogs and Dees with a heap of our better players sitting in the stands.

It's really frustrating to me when people let Clarko off the hook for team performances because it's Clarko and there's no possible way a team coached by Clarko could be underperforming.

If there's anything I'm happy to leave behind it's the combination of Clarko love-fests when we win and the player hate-fests when we lose.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

If anyone wasn’t sure of whether we were playing to our ability or not over the last 2-3 years, that really should’ve been answered when we took it up to the Lions, Swans, Dogs and Dees with a heap of our better players sitting in the stands.

Yes and often those performances happened in the later half of the last 3 seasons when (to my eye at least) Clarko had loosened his grip on the leash and the team played with a lot more freedom.

I know all of the arguments that premiership teams are built from the back line and defense but we always looked out best in recent times when we moved the ball with intent and took risks.

Sam is a very smart guy and I would be staggered if he hadn't identified this fact himself. Plus it's his first year and no one will be expecting too much in terms of results so why not shoot for the stars and actually try to kick a winning score with some attacking footy in a bid to make the finals?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

It's really frustrating to me when people let Clarko off the hook for team performances because it's Clarko and there's no possible way a team coached by Clarko could be underperforming.

If there's anything I'm happy to leave behind it's the combination of Clarko love-fests when we win and the player hate-fests when we lose.

Yes exactly.

That first half of 2021, sweet jebus that was some of the most depressing, uninspired football I have ever seen dished up by our club (and we played some absolute dross from the early 1990s to the mid 2000s)

And (once again to my eye and it is a subjective assessments) a large part of it was down to that ultra defensive gamestyle.

Of course I might be biased in that the only match I saw live last year was our match against the Blues and boy oh boy that was an absolute stinker

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Never a fan of Clarko's gameplan in the latter part of his tenure with us but the knowledge and experience embedded in the playing group is going to help us kill some games off in the future.

I can't argue with that, the problem is that we tended to play the entire game like we were trying to kill it off (right from the very first bounce )

 

[Brishawk]

Yes exactly.

That first half of 2021, sweet jebus that was some of the most depressing, uninspired football I have ever seen dished up by our club (and we played some absolute dross from the early 1990s to the mid 2000s)

And (once again to my eye and it is a subjective assessments) a large part of it was down to that ultra defensive gamestyle.

Of course I might be biased in that the only match I saw live last year was our match against the Blues and boy oh boy that was an absolute stinker

I think it is easy to blame Clarko. And a lot does rest at his feet. But I don’t think the players full acquitted themselves well in the first half of the year. I think they were unwilling to take the game on due to self preservation (understandable in the face of our mids getting thrashed regularly). I was in favour of Clarko going but the players have to respond and realise they will be next if performance doesn’t improve.

 

[Flukey!]

We're closer to our next flag than our last.

Mate I know some kids who are just going into Preps and Grade 1 that have not yet tasted premiership success.
Its a disaster!

So I hope you are right for their sake.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

Mate I know some kids who are just going into Preps and Grade 1 that have not yet tasted premiership success.
Its a disaster!

So I hope you are right for their sake.

Won't anyone think about the children suffering?

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Mate I know some kids who are just going into Preps and Grade 1 that have not yet tasted premiership success.
Its a disaster!

So I hope you are right for their sake.

Well they need to harden up!

I battled through the dark times - didn't even see my first premiership until Grade 2! (and Grade 4, 5, 7).
My son had to wait until Grade 3 (grade 4 and 5).
My daughter was so lucky. Kinder, Prep and Grade 1. The end of grade 2 was so confronting.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Well they need to harden up!

I battled through the dark times - didn't even see my first premiership until Grade 2! (and Grade 4, 5, 7).
My son had to wait until Grade 3 (grade 4 and 5).
My daughter was so lucky. Kinder, Prep and Grade 1. The end of grade 2 was so confronting.

I know you joke but I had to wait until I was 18! It bloody sacked. Lucky the majority of people at my school were stkilda fans, so it didn't impact me too much

 

[Mercy Seat]

It's really frustrating to me when people let Clarko off the hook for team performances because it's Clarko and there's no possible way a team coached by Clarko could be underperforming.

If there's anything I'm happy to leave behind it's the combination of Clarko love-fests when we win and the player hate-fests when we lose.

The inverse is equally true. People wanting to put down our poor few years on a quick, easy-fix solution in that it must have been the coach's gameplan, and with him gone, we "should be challenging".

My viewpoint has nothing to do with a love for Clarko. The reality is, we tried to turn around our list from one of the greatest ever teams, and most successful in our history to competing again within 3-5 years. It was highly ambitious, against all odds, and ultimately didn't work.

On a micro level, could a different game plan have won more games over the past 3 years? Perhaps, but when you zoom out, the larger picture is a lot clearer, and that's the current situation we can't lose persepctive on.

 

[KermitJagger]

The inverse is equally true. People wanting to put down our poor few years on a quick, easy-fix solution in that it must have been the coach's gameplan, and with him gone, we "should be challenging".

My viewpoint has nothing to do with a love for Clarko. The reality is, we tried to turn around our list from one of the greatest ever teams, and most successful in our history to competing again within 3-5 years. It was highly ambitious, against all odds, and ultimately didn't work.

On a micro level, could a different game plan have won more games over the past 3 years? Perhaps, but when you zoom out, the larger picture is a lot clearer, and that's the current situation we can't lose persepctive on.

Oh come off it, nothing to do with a love for Clarko - you're the designated Clarko defender on this board. I was talking in reference to the media, where wins were Clarko genius and losses were due to bad players - there are many examples.

Also, insofar as putting down the performances to the coach and the game plan, you can look at various systems that were built with the aim of objectively rating teams and players where Hawthorn were constantly rated as better or as having more elite and above average players than a lot of other teams despite our season finishes. Squiggle had us as simulated premiers as recently as 2020, we've consistently had more elite and above average players as rated by Champion Data for the past couple of down years. I'm basing my opinion on the performances of the team on the discrepancy between how well we've actually played, and how supposedly unbiased and objective systems rank our team and our players.

You can look at other metrics too; our record against top 8 teams has been top 8 in the league pretty much every season we've finished in the bottom 8. That's weird, that's difficult to explain away as anything but an issue of coaching. We have the game plan and the structure to beat other teams with developed game plans and structure, but the players don't feel confident or able to beat poorer teams who were playing more by impulse and less by plan.

You can also point to the numerous situations where Clarko spoke to not caring about contested possessions and doing nothing to resolve our issues in the midfield despite the noticeable systemic impact it was having on the team, you can point to the fact that the ultimate push to replace Clarko was done at the behest of our younger brigade of players.

Like you said, the turn around within 3-5 years was ambitious and did not work in that time frame, but I don't believe it was against all odds and I definitely don't believe it was the wrong decision.

 

[flinchfree]

..................

On a micro level, could a different game plan have won more games over the past 3 years? Perhaps, but when you zoom out, the larger picture is a lot clearer, and that's the current situation we can't lose persepctive on.

Yeh nah, sorry, can't agree.
It has been clear for SEASONS to a number of armchairs on here that the game plan no longer matched the personnel, and that there was a hard headidness being displayed by Clarko to not deviate from either his selection methods and principles nor his philosopy on defence 1st 2nd and always.
How to score, not so much.
I myself repeatedly said that Clarko no longer seemed to value what players COULD do and maximize that, but instead focussed insistently on players weaknesses and put them in position to lose less - not win more.
Throughout his entire tenure, he de-emphesized the loss of contested footy and first use, often calling out media members who brought it up at press conferences that he was comfortable winning the ball back through structures and supremely diciplined/supremely talented footballers and then mount counter attack. He would just blythely brush off statistics that didn't flatter.

There was no bitching to be had, or relatively little, when we had elite users be able to win big contests at the back and then use a stilletto to absolutely dice the opposition up when going forward. Not to mention champion forwards who could feast on limited entries or conjure the absolute impossible from 50 meter run and goals from Buddy to a two step steady and slot it from an off platform Breust.

I hate revisionist history. And it's not revisionist to call out Clarko's weakened plan for winning games or enthusing a team around a method they could get behind and execute. Myself and plenty others have said as much for 3 plus years, and despite being called out as bullshit artists for our assessments of a game plan plainly sucking AND UNLIKELY TO IMPROVE WITH THE LIST WE HAD AND WOULDN'T FOR THE FORSEEABLE - both the Club management and our players made clear their dissatisfaction. And NOT just at the last when we let Clarko go.

The players have been clear. From McEvoy to the youngsters. The way had been lost, Clarko was hardheaded and incapable of the change required, and the team didn't enjoy the road any longer. That INCLUDED many senior players. Their honor stopped them from making much public over recent seasons but it was not hard to see from certain events that there was clear dissatisfaction.

It's not just winning more games the last 3 years. It was the chance to reset the Club with a gamestyle that incoming and current players could make elite.
Clarko failed at that. No need to be able to zoom out to see that or say such understanding is only available now.

He gets a statue for what he got right.
He gets the truth told for what he got wrong.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Oh come off it, nothing to do with a love for Clarko - you're the designated Clarko defender on this board. I was talking in reference to the media, where wins were Clarko genius and losses were due to bad players - there are many examples.

Also, insofar as putting down the performances to the coach and the game plan, you can look at various systems that were built with the aim of objectively rating teams and players where Hawthorn were constantly rated as better or as having more elite and above average players than a lot of other teams despite our season finishes. Squiggle had us as simulated premiers as recently as 2020, we've consistently had more elite and above average players as rated by Champion Data for the past couple of down years. I'm basing my opinion on the performances of the team on the discrepancy between how well we've actually played, and how supposedly unbiased and objective systems rank our team and our players.

You can look at other metrics too; our record against top 8 teams has been top 8 in the league pretty much every season we've finished in the bottom 8. That's weird, that's difficult to explain away as anything but an issue of coaching. We have the game plan and the structure to beat other teams with developed game plans and structure, but the players don't feel confident or able to beat poorer teams who were playing more by impulse and less by plan.

You can also point to the numerous situations where Clarko spoke to not caring about contested possessions and doing nothing to resolve our issues in the midfield despite the noticeable systemic impact it was having on the team, you can point to the fact that the ultimate push to replace Clarko was done at the behest of our younger brigade of players.

Like you said, the turn around within 3-5 years was ambitious and did not work in that time frame, but I don't believe it was against all odds and I definitely don't believe it was the wrong decision.

I will preface this by saying Clarkson had to go his time was up. However to say that the wins were not attributed to the coach during that period is inadequate. He had a large part to play in the way we defeated our opponents. We were inconsistent during that period. Yes the wins occurred when the players played well and executed well. The games we lost may have been on Clarkson and his planning but were also because we had bad days skills wise. we looked like a rabble devoid of any semblance of team work. What Clarkson did is history but if you think the issues plaguing us over the last few years have magically disappeared due to the coach then you are mistaken. Our skills are still hit and miss from training session to training session on a given day we may look like millionaires one day while on others look like a rabble. We may end up beating some fancied teams while having poor games against other teams we should beat. It is who we are at present hopefully we are able to improve on this consistency over the coming years

 

[KermitJagger]

I will preface this by saying Clarkson had to go his time was up. However to say that the wins were not attributed to the coach during that period is inadequate. He had a large part to play in the way we defeated our opponents. We were inconsistent during that period. Yes the wins occurred when the players played well and executed well. The games we lost may have been on Clarkson and his planning but were also because we had bad days skills wise. we looked like a rabble devoid of any semblance of team work. What Clarkson did is history but if you think the issues plaguing us over the last few years have magically disappeared due to the coach then you are mistaken. Our skills are still hit and miss from training session to training session on a given day we may look like millionaires one day while on others look like a rabble. We may end up beating some fancied teams while having poor games against other teams we should beat. It is who we are at present hopefully we are able to improve on this consistency over the coming years

I didn't say that the wins weren't attributed to Clarkson, I'm just lamenting that his reputation meant that he got the praise for wins but avoided criticism for losses.

I even mentioned in the post that his coaching was a big part of our wins against better teams, but it also contributed to our struggles against teams we should have by rights beaten.

And at no point did I say that the issues we have will magically disappear due to the coach leaving, I'm just saying that my belief is the playing list we have on paper is under performing and that I hope Sam will get the best out of them where Clarko couldn't.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I didn't say that the wins weren't attributed to Clarkson, I'm just lamenting that his reputation meant that he got the praise for wins but avoided criticism for losses.

I even mentioned in the post that his coaching was a big part of our wins against better teams, but it also contributed to our struggles against teams we should have by rights beaten.

And at no point did I say that the issues we have will magically disappear due to the coach leaving, I'm just saying that my belief is the playing list we have on paper is under performing and that I hope Sam will get the best out of them where Clarko couldn't.

Yeah i agree to a lot of that but I am not sure we under performed. I think we finished where we are at the moment. I think even this year as an AFL year is a long year I have us finishing 12 -14. We have some exciting players but our skills vary from game to game. Kids and clubs can easily go into a rut with a succession of losses. Sam brings a refreshing new outlook and plan and i have great optimism but until we fix our inconsistencies we will be in that range

 

[Brishawk]

Yeah i agree to a lot of that but I am not sure we under performed. I think we finished where we are at the moment. I think even this year as an AFL year is a long year I have us finishing 12 -14. We have some exciting players but our skills vary from game to game. Kids and clubs can easily go into a rut with a succession of losses. Sam brings a refreshing new outlook and plan and i have great optimism but until we fix our inconsistencies we will be in that range

The first thing that needs addressing is the inconsistency of effort that occurs from game to game and quarter to quarter. Play to the level regardless of the opponent and scoreboard will see us win more games alone.

 

[H00t]

Yeh nah, sorry, can't agree.
It has been clear for SEASONS to a number of armchairs on here that the game plan no longer matched the personnel, and that there was a hard headidness being displayed by Clarko to not deviate from either his selection methods and principles nor his philosopy on defence 1st 2nd and always.
How to score, not so much.
I myself repeatedly said that Clarko no longer seemed to value what players COULD do and maximize that, but instead focussed insistently on players weaknesses and put them in position to lose less - not win more.
Throughout his entire tenure, he de-emphesized the loss of contested footy and first use, often calling out media members who brought it up at press conferences that he was comfortable winning the ball back through structures and supremely diciplined/supremely talented footballers and then mount counter attack. He would just blythely brush off statistics that didn't flatter.

There was no bitching to be had, or relatively little, when we had elite users be able to win big contests at the back and then use a stilletto to absolutely dice the opposition up when going forward. Not to mention champion forwards who could feast on limited entries or conjure the absolute impossible from 50 meter run and goals from Buddy to a two step steady and slot it from an off platform Breust.

I hate revisionist history. And it's not revisionist to call out Clarko's weakened plan for winning games or enthusing a team around a method they could get behind and execute. Myself and plenty others have said as much for 3 plus years, and despite being called out as bullshit artists for our assessments of a game plan plainly sucking AND UNLIKELY TO IMPROVE WITH THE LIST WE HAD AND WOULDN'T FOR THE FORSEEABLE - both the Club management and our players made clear their dissatisfaction. And NOT just at the last when we let Clarko go.

The players have been clear. From McEvoy to the youngsters. The way had been lost, Clarko was hardheaded and incapable of the change required, and the team didn't enjoy the road any longer. That INCLUDED many senior players. Their honor stopped them from making much public over recent seasons but it was not hard to see from certain events that there was clear dissatisfaction.

It's not just winning more games the last 3 years. It was the chance to reset the Club with a gamestyle that incoming and current players could make elite.
Clarko failed at that. No need to be able to zoom out to see that or say such understanding is only available now.

He gets a statue for what he got right.
He gets the truth told for what he got wrong.

I’m all for changing our game plan. Have been for a while now. But the game plan we have had hasn’t been our only problem in the last couple of years.

Even people who went to training had commented on a different style we attempted to implement. And we saw it in parts of games and stretches of games. Where we tried to play a certain way and it didn’t work and we got opened up badly on the scoreboard. And when that happened we went back to slow defensive play again.

This will be one of the challenges Sam faces. It’s easy to say “change the game plan” it’s much harder to come up with a successful one and stick by it while our players are learning it and heavy losses are coming thick and fast.

Can our players keep pulling the trigger and taking the game on? Even when it’s not happening for them at that moment?

Don’t get me wrong the game plan needs to change. But unless we fix effort, foot speed, consistency, defensive pressure, contested possessions, skill level and just generally working as a team we will still be off the pace when compared to the top teams.

Just as much as the game plan needs to change for us to compete our list and the players need to improve a fair bit otherwise we will keep struggling

 

[Judd2Sewell]

It's really frustrating to me when people let Clarko off the hook for team performances because it's Clarko and there's no possible way a team coached by Clarko could be underperforming.

If there's anything I'm happy to leave behind it's the combination of Clarko love-fests when we win and the player hate-fests when we lose.

I copped quite a lot of vitriol for voicing this very opinion over the last few years. I'm glad that others have since seen the light, as it was completely undeniable by the end of last season.

 

[Flukey!]

The first thing that needs addressing is the inconsistency of effort that occurs from game to game and quarter to quarter. Play to the level regardless of the opponent and scoreboard will see us win more games alone.

Consistency of effort should be a non-negotiable.
We all loved guys like Matt Spangher for his effort (and his ear massage of Buddy!) not so much his skills.

If a player doesn't try and losing doesn't hurt, then I hope that regardless of who the player is, they get dropped.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Well they need to harden up!

I battled through the dark times - didn't even see my first premiership until Grade 2! (and Grade 4, 5, 7).
My son had to wait until Grade 3 (grade 4 and 5).
My daughter was so lucky. Kinder, Prep and Grade 1. The end of grade 2 was so confronting.

Try being born in 1990 and all your primary school mates are Essendon fans. Years 4, 5 and 6 were tough.

I legitimately felt like I deserved it due to long-suffering in 2008.

 

[Mojo]

Was effort an issue over the past couple of years? I can't quite remember.

I think the bulk of our issues simply stemmed from a lack of quality in our playing list. Not even Clarkson could overturn that.

 

[JZedd]

Midfield were horrible out of the center bounce. The defense suffered under extreme pressure. The fwds lacked both supply and quality of inside 50.

I'm sure a lot of us were frustrated by having clumps of goals kicked on us. And then spending the rest of the game trying to catch up.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I copped quite a lot of vitriol for voicing this very opinion over the last few years. I'm glad that others have since seen the light, as it was completely undeniable by the end of last season.

Sorry mate.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I copped quite a lot of vitriol for voicing this very opinion over the last few years. I'm glad that others have since seen the light, as it was completely undeniable by the end of last season.

I was likely in the 'but he's got 4 flags!!!' camp also - so credit to you for seeing the writing on the wall before many of us did.