Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[Philhawk]

Patience is needed. A lot of respected voices in the game can see what Sam is doing.

We don’t have the cattle but we are in a different league to the likes of other basket cases who are rebuilding.

Trust the process.

 

[theiaofseed]

People need to relax, just like the Hawthorn team of 2012-16 we would carve up top 4 teams. Sydney were firing yesterday and made a statement after dropping the Richmond game at the MCG on their last visit. It sounds dumb but you wont see a more competitive performance in a 13 goal loss.

The only thing form the game that concerned me was the in ability to stop transition from the backhalf, I thought we matched Sydney in most other aspects.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Trust the process.

People who keep using this sporting parlance may want to look at the results it yielded for the 76ers.

 

[Philhawk]

We need to get a list of talking heads we like and which we don't. It's hard to keep up.

Dissenting and critical voices like Purple and the great betrayer Montagna are banned or not liked around these parts.

Kornes and Jimmy B are our favourites now.

It doesn’t need to be that arbitrary. I’m not saying only listen to voices you disagree with. I’m saying, Bartel is one of a number of prominent, experienced voices who in the game who like what Sam is doing.

Judging Sam’s performance holistically based on wins and losses this year is stupid.

Judging him come end of season (and ideally mid way through next year), once we’ve got 50 games into our kids and a body of work to assess - is a much better way to view how he’s tracking.

 

[tommyk72]

People need to relax, just like the Hawthorn team of 2012-16 we would carve up top 4 teams. Sydney were firing yesterday and made a statement after dropping the Richmond game at the MCG on their last visit. It sounds dumb but you wont see a more competitive performance in a 13 goal loss.

The only thing form the game that concerned me was the in ability to stop transition from the backhalf, I thought we matched Sydney in most other aspects.

Agreed. By my count at least 7 were umpire effected - turnarounds that led to rapid goals at the other end and soft/non paid frees.

I was really impressed at the competitiveness. We just had the wind sucked out of our sails. As soon as we were behind we panicked more. Then on top of that we dropped our heads following ump decisions.

 

[MrPremiership]

It's going to click. I don't know when, but it will.

There are some facets of our game that are trending well. We have talent. We're lacking in a few key positions, often shoot ourselves in the foot, but we're getting there.

 

[tommyk72]

That said, I do think our player management has been poor. Poor sub choices, lack of continuity/development for this whole need it (eg Ramsden, others, sticking with some of our young kids too long (Connor Mac), and playing Weddle all over the place.

 

[HedgeFund]

That's a decent way to go in winning matches. We just lacked polish and our forward line is a hot mess.

 

[Tanami]

If Bartel was a genius he would be coaching.

He is a radio jock.
And works with GWS .....

Who cares what what Jimmy Bartel has to say.

Get real !

 

[HawthornHawk]

People who keep using this sporting parlance may want to look at the results it yielded for the 76ers.

...a perennial playoff team?

 

[cryptor]

People need to relax, just like the Hawthorn team of 2012-16 we would carve up top 4 teams.

I assume you mean we carved up bottom 4 teams, like we are now?

But if you did mean top 4 then you are also right. In 2015 we belted Freo (1st) by 72 and Sydney (4th) by 89. 10+ goal victories against top teams weren’t uncommon. And we massacred some bottom 4 sides by 20+ goals, like Carlton the week before the above two games.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If Bartel was a genius he would be coaching.

He is a radio jock.
And works with GWS .....

Who cares what what Jimmy Bartel has to say.

Get real !

Just happens to be the football director to one of the Premiership faves.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's going to click. I don't know when, but it will.

There are some facets of our game that are trending well. We have talent. We're lacking in a few key positions, often shoot ourselves in the foot, but we're getting there.

8th in the comp for Contested possession rate.
8th for intercept possessions.
4th for ground ball gets.
9th for inside 50’s.
6th for marks inside 50.

With those stats we have the bones of a side that should be able to get over a number of sides if we can take our chances in front of the sticks.

 

[theiaofseed]

8th in the comp for Contested possession rate.
8th for intercept possessions.
4th for ground ball gets.
9th for inside 50’s.
6th for marks inside 50.

With those stats have the bones of a side that should be able to get over a number of sides if we can take pit chances in front of the sticks.

Turned our clearance game around as well in the last 2 weeks(granted not a big sample size), will only get stronger with Day getting closer to 80% CBA.

 

[SSSSSS]

We are our own worst enemies.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

It doesn’t need to be that arbitrary. I’m not saying only listen to voices you disagree with. I’m saying, Bartel is one of a number of prominent, experienced voices who in the game who like what Sam is doing.

Judging Sam’s performance holistically based on wins and losses this year is stupid.

Judging him come end of season (and ideally mid way through next year), once we’ve got 50 games into our kids and a body of work to assess - is a much better way to view how he’s tracking.

I think Bartel always comes across as considered and he has great insight as to what makes a successful club successful. He's also in a position of power at GWS, and they are a top four fancy this season too.

The opinions of ex-players that were part of successful programs absolutely trumps the opinions of numpty talking heads like Purple and co.

 

[Brishawk]

We also won clearences against other high-quality midfields:

- Collingwood and Cats, and broke even against Essendon

Our CP numbers have been generally winning each game.

These are good building blocks for success. I think our forward line's inability to convert has been really costly

Im not as bullish on our stats as some. On face value they look ok but the stats dont align with the eye test.

We have won the uncontested possession count twice this season. Once v melbourne when we refused to attack and once v north, who are s**t.

We are not good at clearing congestion cleanly so it is not unusual for us to win a contested ball and then have the next 2-3 possessions in the chain contested as we handball to someone under pressure who is tackled and then spills the ball to a team mate by a dump handball, and so on until we hack it clear.

By contrast we simply dont create enough pressure on our opponent to force them into the same pattern so for every time we win a contested chain of 3 possessions, our opponent could win two contested chains by winning a single contested ball and clearing it to a player in space. So we could win the contested possession count but lose the overall number of contests for disputed ball.

While our clearances appear to be improving this year after a terrible start, teams have often played an extra in defence while we push our extra to the contest. We get a clearance and often an inside fifty out of it but the entries are shallow and often to players who are outnumbered.

Its not all bad. When the pressure drops off we have show we can strong good passages of play together and get clean entries and marks inside fifty. But our issues above mean we struggle to grind out scores when under pressure as we arent clean and it takes long strings of contested possessions or trying to thread the eye of a needle under extreme pressure to score.

We need to find a way to defend and be harder to play against. We need to be the ones forcing the errors. We also need to find a way to play against fast midfields. We struggle badly against them in particular.

 

[Brishawk]

...a perennial early exit playoff team?

Corrected for accuracy

 

[Mojo]

It's going to click. I don't know when, but it will.

There are some facets of our game that are trending well. We have talent. We're lacking in a few key positions, often shoot ourselves in the foot, but we're getting there.

I've actually found myself being really pessimistic about our current depth of talent this year.

I've questioned Sam Mitchell (for the first time), but I THINK, he's not the problem; it's personnel.

It takes above average players on every line to be competitive (top 8). It takes the addition of several elite players on top of that to challenge for a flag and win one. Unfortunately, I look at our list and I count very few players that fit into the elite category. I look at the Hawthorn supporters who argue against this point, and it's evident they're either wearing brown and gold tinted glasses, or they're incredibly naive to the recipe that builds success.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

...a perennial playoff team?

That has never made it past the second round. Plenty of teams are doing far better without having to bottom out as badly as they did. It was a failed experiment.

 

[Flukey!]

I quite liked listening to Sam post game.
Its the old story - Nothing is ever as good as it seems. Nothing is ever as bad as it seems.

I was really hoping the beltings were over but they arent.
But I know our club and it will turn and we will be better.

 

[HawthornHawk]

Corrected for accuracy

I'd still take that given we're currently more like the San Diego Clippers

 

[Blackhawk42]

I've actually found myself being really pessimistic about our current depth of talent this year.

I've questioned Sam Mitchell (for the first time), but I THINK, he's not the problem; it's personnel.

It takes above average players on every line to be competitive (top 8). It takes the addition of several elite players on top of that to challenge for a flag and win one. Unfortunately, I look at our list and I count very few players that fit into the elite category. I look at the Hawthorn supporters who argue against this point, and it's evident they're either wearing brown and gold tinted glasses, or they're incredibly naive to the recipe that builds success.

Not disputing what you're saying, but the group of Newcombe, Day, Weddle, Mackenzie and Watson in particular could be absolutely anything in 5 years time.

They're the 5 with limitless potential.

Just need Ward, McCabe and a couple of others to take the step alongside them.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

If Bartel was a genius he would be coaching.

He is a radio jock.
And works with GWS .....

Who cares what what Jimmy Bartel has to say.

Get real !

I actually think Bartel is one of the few media people with a more realistic approach, and one whose opinions I will actually listen to.