Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

[Kurve]

Here are the crime board rules of engagement. Please read them.

Importantly, 'sub judice' means that a case is under consideration by the courts. 'Sub judice contempt' can occur if information is published that may be prejudicial to the court proceedings.

Don't spread baseless rumours or state as fact that which is opinion, please.

A degree of respect in all discussion across this board is expected.

Rules - Updated Crime Board Rules - READ BEFORE POSTING

General Information The BigFooty Crime board is a community that fosters discussion on current and past crimes, some which have social and media notoriety, that attracts the attention of public opinion and discussion on such matters. Please read these rules very carefully, both the Big Footy...

www.bigfooty.com

The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

charged



Allegedly

 

[BFew]

The latest search is following the course of the Yarrawee River, Grenville is the next closest access point down river from Durham Lead.

Good to see NSW Police and AFP lending a hand.

Major development in search for Samantha Murphy's body in Ballarat

Victoria Police launched a targeted search in bushland for the missing Ballarat mum-of-three in a new area near Grenville on Tuesday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'Detectives from the Missing Persons Squad and officers NSW Police officers are also involved in the renewed search, along with their Australian Federal counterparts.

 

[Terrafirma]

Good to see NSW Police and AFP lending a hand.

Major development in search for Samantha Murphy's body in Ballarat

Victoria Police launched a targeted search in bushland for the missing Ballarat mum-of-three in a new area near Grenville on Tuesday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'Detectives from the Missing Persons Squad and officers NSW Police officers are also involved in the renewed search, along with their Australian Federal counterparts.

Fingers Crossed..! Not knowing where she is would be killing the family. Closure and grief process can begin when they find her.!

 

[shorsky]

How come all this Hannah in the Samantha thread?

Hannah McGuire - Another Senseless Ballarat Murder * Lachie Young charged

Another senseless murder near Ballarat at Scarsdale. Hannah’s body was found in a burnt out car. Disgusting. A tragic waste of life and another family left to pick up the pieces. 2 young males in custody...

www.bigfooty.com

This was my doing initially (apologies for any inconveniences). I should have clarified my intent.
My thoughts were that if this was Lachlan’s decided course of action, perhaps POS will take the same route - since quite possibly they’ve had communication while in remand.

 

[Percel]

This was my doing initially (apologies for any inconveniences). I should have clarified my intent.
My thoughts were that if this was Lachlan’s decided course of action, perhaps POS will take the same route - since quite possibly they’ve had communication while in remand.

No apology needed at all,

And totally see your point now, would be super interesting to see what contact they both have inside..

 

[Run n Spread]

This was my doing initially (apologies for any inconveniences). I should have clarified my intent.
My thoughts were that if this was Lachlan’s decided course of action, perhaps POS will take the same route - since quite possibly they’ve had communication while in remand.

Very long bow to draw.
Completely different cases. POS will take it to.commital. At the very least to lock in what evidence police has and form a strategy. Without a body/established crime scene evidence is very circumstantial. Police have wanted more time. Smart legal move would be to have the committal and lock the prosecution into a version of events
Different to the other case with a crime scene timeline etc with the guy saying wasn't me someone else at the scene.

 

[31550]

Very long bow to draw.
Completely different cases. POS will take it to.commital. At the very least to lock in what evidence police has and form a strategy. Without a body/established crime scene evidence is very circumstantial. Police have wanted more time. Smart legal move would be to have the committal and lock the prosecution into a version of events
Different to the other case with a crime scene timeline etc with the guy saying wasn't me someone else at the scene.

The other major difference is that in only one of these cases there is a body. Without body it's much harder to prove anything.

 

[Run n Spread]

The other major difference is that in only one of these cases there is a body. Without body it's much harder to prove anything.

Exactly.
The other case is always going to.trial evidence put and established so.may as well get on with it.
I doubt this case gets thrown at committal but if the Magistrate says it is weak and they struggle to.put foward a strong case it can severely hamper the trial in terms of getting a guilty. Also.makes putting a counter argument up easier

 

[31550]

Exactly. And not to be indelicate but any find now will have little evidence value from a physical crime scene pov. More a timeline and movements and providing a closure for SMs family.
The other case is always going to.trial evidence put and established so.may as well get on with it.
I doubt this case gets thrown at committal but if the Magistrate says it is weak and they struggle to.put foward a strong case it can severely hamper the trial in terms of getting a guilty.

Correct. The entire prosecution case has been built without the evidence of a body.
Of course the search continues, as it must, if only for the sake of the family.
It seems unlikely at this stage that the discovery of Samantha's body will make any difference to the case against POS.

 

[Zidane98]

Correct. The entire prosecution case has been built without the evidence of a body.
Of course the search continues, as it must, if only for the sake of the family.
It seems unlikely at this stage that the discovery of Samantha's body will make any difference to the case against POS.

It would make a significant difference as there is seemingly going to be no testimony on how SM died. Plus possible dna evidence etc etc.


It does seem that the location of the body is going to have to be found without assistance from an alleged perp. This is going to be extremely difficult without at least a starting point where an alleged perp was known to be in the day(s) after SM's disappearance which is the highest chance of where SM's remains may possibly be located.

I imagine by now all mobile phone metadata and CCTV has been exhaustively analysed by now for such evidence.

 

[31550]

It would make a significant difference as there is seemingly going to be no testimony on how SM died. Plus possible dna evidence etc etc.


It does seem that the location of the body is going to have to be found without assistance from an alleged perp. This is going to be extremely difficult without at least a starting point where an alleged perp was known to be in the day(s) after SM's disappearance which is the highest chance of where SM's remains may possibly be located.

I imagine by now all mobile phone metadata and CCTV has been exhaustively analysed by now for such evidence.

Clearly the prosecution have a case which does not depend on Samantha's body. It must be based on circumstantial evidence plus whatever they can get from telephone records and electronic surveillance.

Finding Samantha may not necessarily help the prosecution case. For example, if she was found with a gunshot wound, the defendant may claim he has never owned or used a firearm, and the prosecution would need to prove a connection. Without finding the body, the prosecution may simply allege she was killed by unknown means, but that POS was the only person with the opportunity to have committed the crime (by virtue of other circumstantial or physical evidence).

 

[Zidane98]

Clearly the prosecution have a case which does not depend on Samantha's body. It must be based on circumstantial evidence plus whatever they can get from telephone records and electronic surveillance.

Finding Samantha may not necessarily help the prosecution case. For example, if she was found with a gunshot wound, the defendant may claim he has never owned or used a firearm, and the prosecution would need to prove a connection. Without finding the body, the prosecution may simply allege she was killed by unknown means, but that POS was the only person with the opportunity to have committed the crime (by virtue of other circumstantial or physical evidence).

They may have a case that doesn't rely on having the actual body as evidence but actually having a body will always strengthen the case of the prosecution.

 

[31550]

They may have a case that doesn't rely on having the actual body as evidence but actually having a body will always strengthen the case of the prosecution.

Not if the body produces physical evidence inconsistent with what is alleged by the prosecution.

 

[Zidane98]

Not if the body produces physical evidence inconsistent with what is alleged by the prosecution.

then in that case the prosecution never had a strong case.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

They may have a case that doesn't rely on having the actual body as evidence but actually having a body will always strengthen the case of the prosecution.

Not "may have" but definitely had a case to charge him on without a body.

 

[shorsky]

Very long bow to draw.
Completely different cases. POS will take it to.commital. At the very least to lock in what evidence police has and form a strategy. Without a body/established crime scene evidence is very circumstantial. Police have wanted more time. Smart legal move would be to have the committal and lock the prosecution into a version of events
Different to the other case with a crime scene timeline etc with the guy saying wasn't me someone else at the scene.

Agreed, 2 different situations but anything is possible imo. .. it ain’t over til it’s over
There was a decision made to charge POS with murder and to make a public statement as to his alleged involvement, the crime whereabouts & approximate time. .. that charge won’t happen without some evidence to support it.
The Defence team will have that evidence ( and everything gathered since), mountains of it apparently, hence why They requested more time to go through it all. Police supported their request due to the amount of evidence.

Of course a body makes things easier, but it’s not an absolute for the court outcome - murder convictions have been determined without the recovery of the body. And I would be interested to know of any shared Comms between these 2 lads, both now facing long sentences for murder.

 

[Underarrest_]

Just thinking how sickening it is, police on foot, motorbikes, dogs out searching for Samantha when the sicko who killed her and disposed of her body knows exactly where she is.

 

[Percel]

Just thinking how sickening it is, police on foot, motorbikes, dogs out searching for Samantha when the sicko who killed her and disposed of her body knows exactly where she is.

That’s what gets me as well, surely after this long, (if you’re pos) you’d somehow giveit up, for whatever reason presents

 

[31550]

That’s what gets me as well, surely after this long, (if you’re pos) you’d somehow giveit up, for whatever reason presents

Possible reasons:

• He genuinely does not know
• He does not remember
• He does know, but is confident she will not be found
• He does know, but thinks if she is found it may make things worse for him (may reveal additional offences)
• He does know, but has some other reason (protecting another party, under threats from another party, bad advice, misguided, ...)

 

[Percel]

Possible reasons:

• He genuinely does not know
• He does not remember
• He does know, but is confident she will not be found
• He does know, but thinks if she is found it may make things worse for him (may reveal additional offences)
• He does know, but has some other reason (protecting another party, under threats from another party, bad advice, misguided, ...)

I went down the path of the first two, my unsubstantiated guess is that he was off his chops. Nothing to support this, bit of a hunch, however watery.

 

[Edna Mode]

That’s what gets me as well, surely after this long, (if you’re pos) you’d somehow giveit up, for whatever reason presents

Possible reasons:

• He genuinely does not know
• He does not remember
• He does know, but is confident she will not be found
• He does know, but thinks if she is found it may make things worse for him (may reveal additional offences)
• He does know, but has some other reason (protecting another party, under threats from another party, bad advice, misguided, ...)

I agree with your reasons, even Beaumont Lamarre-Condon alleged killer, pinpoint "exactly" where he had left the bodies. Possible after he received legal assistance.
It's certainly an interesting case.
I would also have thought by this time he would 'give up' and be whinging to his defence team to get me out of here, I've had enough etc..? But he doesn't seem to be protesting, seems happy to stay put. Which has me thinking, possibly has another reason (protecting someone else, threats etc) Especially being a young guy who hasn't been in the prison system before, and already serving a long time in custody

 

[Underarrest_]

That’s what gets me as well, surely after this long, (if you’re pos) you’d somehow giveit up, for whatever reason presents

That probably takes morals which I guess they wouldn’t have being the perpetrator in the first place.

 

[Run n Spread]

Possible reasons:

• He genuinely does not know
• He does not remember
• He does know, but is confident she will not be found
• He does know, but thinks if she is found it may make things worse for him (may reveal additional offences)
• He does know, but has some other reason (protecting another party, under threats from another party, bad advice, misguided, ...)

Or option f he is innocent has nothing to do with it and the police have made a mistake. Why a presumption of innocence exists.

 

[Flash of power]

Possible reasons:

• He genuinely does not know
• He does not remember
• He does know, but is confident she will not be found
• He does know, but thinks if she is found it may make things worse for him (may reveal additional offences)
• He does know, but has some other reason (protecting another party, under threats from another party, bad advice, misguided, ...)

or .............He does know and just does not want to tell because he thinks his chances of getting off without a body are higher

I'm with this one.

 

[thumbs_up]

Or option f he is innocent has nothing to do with it and the police have made a mistake. Why a presumption of innocence exists.

That would fall under :He genuinely doesn't know

 

[31550]

Or option f he is innocent has nothing to do with it and the police have made a mistake. Why a presumption of innocence exists.

That's the first one. He doesn't know because he didn't do it.