Scott Pendlebury - Standing in the game?

[carlton_99]

Nope. Nothing made up in my posts, as I've stated.

Though happy for any of you to try to prove me wrong.

"My algorithms" does not explain in any way how you can perform independent analysis on 600 games of football between two players.

 

[Fadge]

"My algorithms" does not explain in any way how you can perform independent analysis on 600 games of football between two players.

Why should I share my intellectual property with you nuffies?

Not that you'd understand it anyway.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Nope. Nothing made up in my posts, as I've stated.

Though happy for any of you to try to prove me wrong.

You think anyone's going to bother going through 600 individual games from the players to disprove something you just admitted was fabricated?

Do you have any proof to your claims or just plucked it from thin air?

 

[Fadge]

You think anyone's going to bother going through 600 individual games from the players to disprove something you just admitted was fabricated?

Do you have any proof to your claims or just plucked it from thin air?

Refer to my post above.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Why should I share my intellectual property with you nuffies?

Not that you'd understand it anyway.

I am tempted to say here you have become a scoffing stock Fadge.

But it would be much more accurate to say you have remained a scoffing stock.

It seems you are the only person on the planet who takes you seriously.

 

[Fadge]

Isn't it cute the Meteoric Ruse has infiltrated this and other Collingwood threads, now that he's come to the realisation his own team has reverted to another three decades of irrelevancy?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Isn't it cute the Meteoric Ruse has infiltrated this and other Collingwood threads, now that he's come to the realisation his own team has reverted to another three decades of irrelevancy?

How cutting, lol.

 

[doppleganger]

You think anyone's going to bother going through 600 individual games from the players to disprove something you just admitted was fabricated?

Do you have any proof to your claims or just plucked it from thin air?

Pendles clearly has Dusty for longevity and has him covered for total coaches votes, brownlows votes, disposals, clearances etc

6 AAs to 4 for Dusty
5 BnFs to just 2 for Dusty

You can use sites like wheelorating to compare the pair for match stats from 2012.

This hurts Pendles as he was already an absolute star of the game in 2010 and 2011, and playing quality football since 2007.

So the Tiger argument is who had the better peak, to run with Dusty 2017 to win an argument. Hard to argue with that, as it was a single year out of the box.

2017 was the only single season where Dusty received more than 90 coaches votes, had a supercoach avg above 110, player rating above 17, disposals above 30 etc. It was a special year, but he only did it once.

Pendles had 7 consecutive seasons (2010 to 2016) with a supercoach avg above 110, Dusty just 2017.

Pendles had 3 season with a player rating avg above 17 (and that doesn't include 2010-11), Dusty just 2017.

Pendles avg 28+ disposals for 7 season, Dusty just 2.

An individual game, Pendles peak player rating game of 36.3 is better than Dusty 35.9 for player rating. (Again noting that Pendles games from 2010-11 are not included).

Pendles and Dusty both have a SC best of 184 (but Dusty second beat SC score was 167, Pendles 182).

So pick your preferred overall rating - player rating, SC etc. and you can sort matches from 2012.

Then be aware that Pendles has 50 games from 2010 & 11 to slot in somewhere (arguably his best two years).

So unless you are arguing who had the best season - Dusty wins with 2017.

Overall careers, pretty hard to go past Pendles.

 

[Fadge]

Pendles clearly has Dusty for longevity and has him covered for total coaches votes, brownlows votes, disposals, clearances etc

6 AAs to 4 for Dusty
5 BnFs to just 2 for Dusty

You can use sites like wheelorating to compare the pair for match stats from 2012.

This hurts Pendles as he was already an absolute star of the game in 2010 and 2011, and playing quality football since 2007.

So the Tiger argument is who had the better peak, to run with Dusty 2017 to win an argument. Hard to argue with that, as it was a single year out of the box.

2017 was the only single season where Dusty received more than 90 coaches votes, had a supercoach avg above 110, player rating above 17, disposals above 30 etc. It was a special year, but he only did it once.

Pendles had 7 consecutive seasons (2010 to 2016) with a supercoach avg above 110, Dusty just 2017.

Pendles had 3 season with a player rating avg above 17 (and that doesn't include 2010-11), Dusty just 2017.

Pendles avg 28+ disposals for 7 season, Dusty just 2.

An individual game, Pendles peak player rating game of 36.3 is better than Dusty 35.9 for player rating. (Again noting that Pendles games from 2010-11 are not included).

Pendles and Dusty both have a SC best of 184 (but Dusty second beat SC score was 167, Pendles 182).

So pick your preferred overall rating - player rating, SC etc. and you can sort matches from 2012.

Then be aware that Pendles has 50 games from 2010 & 11 to slot in somewhere (arguably his best two years).

So unless you are arguing who had the best season - Dusty wins with 2017.

Overall careers, pretty hard to go past Pendles.

And before we hear 'But, but, but... Finals performances!' - Here are the top 25 finals games between Pendlebury and Martin. Pendlebury has 15 of the best 25 finals performances between the two players.

 

[Chronz]

Pendles clearly has Dusty for longevity and has him covered for total coaches votes, brownlows votes, disposals, clearances etc

6 AAs to 4 for Dusty
5 BnFs to just 2 for Dusty

You can use sites like wheelorating to compare the pair for match stats from 2012.

This hurts Pendles as he was already an absolute star of the game in 2010 and 2011, and playing quality football since 2007.

So the Tiger argument is who had the better peak, to run with Dusty 2017 to win an argument. Hard to argue with that, as it was a single year out of the box.

2017 was the only single season where Dusty received more than 90 coaches votes, had a supercoach avg above 110, player rating above 17, disposals above 30 etc. It was a special year, but he only did it once.

Pendles had 7 consecutive seasons (2010 to 2016) with a supercoach avg above 110, Dusty just 2017.

Pendles had 3 season with a player rating avg above 17 (and that doesn't include 2010-11), Dusty just 2017.

Pendles avg 28+ disposals for 7 season, Dusty just 2.

An individual game, Pendles peak player rating game of 36.3 is better than Dusty 35.9 for player rating. (Again noting that Pendles games from 2010-11 are not included).

Pendles and Dusty both have a SC best of 184 (but Dusty second beat SC score was 167, Pendles 182).

So pick your preferred overall rating - player rating, SC etc. and you can sort matches from 2012.

Then be aware that Pendles has 50 games from 2010 & 11 to slot in somewhere (arguably his best two years).

So unless you are arguing who had the best season - Dusty wins with 2017.

Overall careers, pretty hard to go past Pendles.

I was going to bring up Supercoach figures. From a pure and unbiased statistical perspective, Pendles destroys Crusty over their whole careers. We all know MR loves the stat sheet, so there can be no argument over this fact.

I am not one tohang shit on players from other teams and can appreciate how good they are. I still think Dusty is the goat finals player.

 

[doppleganger]

I was going to bring up Supercoach figures. From a pure and unbiased statistical perspective, Pendles destroys Crusty over their whole careers. We all know MR loves the stat sheet, so there can be no argument over this fact.

I am not one tohang shit on players from other teams and can appreciate how good they are. I still think Dusty is the goat finals player.

There are obviously challenges with SC calculations.

But use any of ratings that attempt to translate basic descriptive stats into a rating - SC, Player ratings and Pendles comes out ahead.

Unless you switch to who had the best season, Dusty in 2017 was better than any season Pendles produced. But Pendles probably then has the next best 5-6 seasons between the pair.

And Pendles has the best rated single games.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Pendles clearly has Dusty for longevity and has him covered for total coaches votes, brownlows votes, disposals, clearances etc

6 AAs to 4 for Dusty
5 BnFs to just 2 for Dusty

You can use sites like wheelorating to compare the pair for match stats from 2012.

This hurts Pendles as he was already an absolute star of the game in 2010 and 2011, and playing quality football since 2007.

So the Tiger argument is who had the better peak, to run with Dusty 2017 to win an argument. Hard to argue with that, as it was a single year out of the box.

2017 was the only single season where Dusty received more than 90 coaches votes, had a supercoach avg above 110, player rating above 17, disposals above 30 etc. It was a special year, but he only did it once.

Pendles had 7 consecutive seasons (2010 to 2016) with a supercoach avg above 110, Dusty just 2017.

Pendles had 3 season with a player rating avg above 17 (and that doesn't include 2010-11), Dusty just 2017.

Pendles avg 28+ disposals for 7 season, Dusty just 2.

An individual game, Pendles peak player rating game of 36.3 is better than Dusty 35.9 for player rating. (Again noting that Pendles games from 2010-11 are not included).

Pendles and Dusty both have a SC best of 184 (but Dusty second beat SC score was 167, Pendles 182).

So pick your preferred overall rating - player rating, SC etc. and you can sort matches from 2012.

Then be aware that Pendles has 50 games from 2010 & 11 to slot in somewhere (arguably his best two years).

So unless you are arguing who had the best season - Dusty wins with 2017.

Overall careers, pretty hard to go past Pendles.

I can appreciate a lot of this, but ultimately for me it comes down to this - Both have/had decorated careers, Dusty more revered in finals, Pendles obviously the longevity and consistency with season after season of quality footy... But when I think of players who truly changed the game and were genuinely unstoppable at their best, Dusty is in that conversation, Pendles is not.

Pendles has and always will be a death by a thousand cuts footballer and imo that's the reason he's never going to be held in as high regard by non Pie fans eyes.

Another issue I have with arguing he's in the top 5 of this century, is you could argue Pendles hasn't even been the best player on his team for the majority of his career. For me Swan was the better of the two - can argue that one either way, they were hard to split and incredibly good as a tandem .

Grundy was clearly the Pies best player for 2-3 years after that from 2017-2019 imo.

Crisp, Moore and Degoey took that mantle as Grundy and Pendlebury dropped off and now Nick is clearly the Pies best.

When Judd, GAJ, Dusty etc were at their best there was simply nobody better. They dominated on ball, they dominated up forward, they were just irrepressible forces in the game no matter what opposition teams threw at them. I've never felt the same about Pendles.

Fyfe hasn't had the longevity of the others but for the same reason I hold him in very high regard. His peak form before he broke his leg was like some sort of video game 'create a character' come to life.

Either way, Pendles is a great of the game and will be celebrated as such when he does eventually hang them up. But for me he isn't in the conversation for the best of the best, just an extremely good player.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion though.

 

[Fadge]

There are obviously challenges with SC calculations.

But use any of ratings that attempt to translate basic descriptive stats into a rating - SC, Player ratings and Pendles comes out ahead.

Unless you switch to who had the best season, Dusty in 2017 was better than any season Pendles produced. But Pendles probably then has the next best 5-6 seasons between the pair.

And Pendles has the best rated single games.

Meteoric Rise loves his Player Ratings.

From the data available from 2012 (which excludes two of Pendlebury's best seasons), Pendlebury has 52 of the top 100 rated games between the two players.

I may need to revisit my algorithm - I may have done a disservice to Pendlebury.

Oh my.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

And before we hear 'But, but, but... Finals performances!' - Here are the top 25 finals games between Pendlebury and Martin. Pendlebury has 15 of the best 25 finals performances between the two players.

View attachment 2201792

Yep, before the other 7.499 billion people on the planet bar Fadge claim Dusty has the best finals record of any player ever and Scott is not even mentioned ever in this conversation, here is Fadge from planet Fadge to present some incontrovertible evidence to show every person on planet earth is wrong and he is right.....

The incontrovertible evidence?

Fadge from Planet Fadge's own made up rankings of Dusty & Scott's individual finals performances.

I shit you not, I once actually went to the trouble of checking his ratings of their individual finals performances against the unbiased Champion Data ratings of those games and was utterly shocked to see Fadge had a 20% bias towards Pendlebury compared to CD ratings.

All-time Finals performers....

1 D Martin

Fighting our other top 10 places players like:

Barrassi, Bartlett, Matthews, Mueller and many other greats

then we get the Lachie Neales, D Jarmans, Billy Pickens of the world who seemed to produce their best around finals time

then we get 300 feet of shit

then we get the only forward or mid to play 30+ finals without kicking 10 goals(Dusty kicked 10 just in his 3 Grand Finals) Scott Pendlebury.

Fair dinkum Fadge you are delusional.

 

[Fadge]

Yep, before the other 7.499 billion people on the planet bar Fadge claim Dusty has the best finals record of any player ever and Scott is not even mentioned ever in this conversation, here is Fadge from planet Fadge to present some incontrovertible evidence to show every person on planet earth is wrong and he is right.....

The incontrovertible evidence?

Fadge from Planet Fadge's own made up rankings of Dusty & Scott's individual finals performances.

I shit you not, I once actually went to the trouble of checking his ratings of their individual finals performances against the unbiased Champion Data ratings of those games and was utterly shocked to see Fadge had a 20% bias towards Pendlebury compared to CD ratings.

All-time Finals performers....

1 D Martin

Fighting our other top 10 places players like:

Barrassi, Bartlett, Matthews, Mueller and many other greats

then we get the Lachie Neales, D Jarmans, Billy Pickens of the world who seemed to produce their best around finals time

then we get 300 feet of shit

then we get the only forward or mid to play 30+ finals without kicking 10 goals(Dusty kicked 10 just in his 3 Grand Finals) Scott Pendlebury.

Fair dinkum Fadge you are delusional.

A lot of drivel, but feel free to provide your list of finals games rankings between Martin and Pendlebury, if you disagree with the data I have provided.

 

[Mr Meow]

Martin and Pendlebury were/are very different kinds of players, with careers not very similar besides both being champions.

Dusty's 4 year finals run 2017-2020 and 2017 overall season was sensational. He played a crucial role when Richmond were in jeopardy in the prelim (BOG in a deathly close game) and grand final (firestarter and BOG, got the whole team going after they stalled early) of 2020. The other winning finals through the dynasty? It shouldn't be forgotten that Richmond were just dominant overall. It would be like if you took Geelong out of the equation and the 2010 Pies extended their run for 4 years during Pendlebury's peak. Regardless, Martin was superb during those 4 years - especially finals. He was a very good player otherwise.

Pendlebury has had a higher number of great seasons than Martin but his peak wasn't as damaging. He doesn't have one singular 4 year run of finals as memorable. But he has played a hell of a lot more finals overall, from a junior right through to an old man, and been very consistent. He has longevity on his side and has been an example of a player you build a team around for over a decade, with the Pies believing they could contend through the whole run (a bit Selwood-esque).

One went forward and could break a game open in minutes, the prototype of an ultra attacking mid with a licence to kill. One sliced you open all game with finesse, skill and unbelievable vision/decision making. Leading an orchestra more than driving a bulldozer. They would be complimentary in a team of the 21st century so far - there would be little overlap. Overall they both leave fantastic legacies and despite what either of their club's supporters would argue, there isn't much between them. It's just difficult as it's an apples vs oranges comparison.

 

[HeathySure]

Without Pendles being best on ground by a mile in the last quarter in the last Grand Final AND his organising the side on field, we don't win (he was 35 at the time) Don't care how he is ranked by the biased usual suspects who are the same trolls in every Collingwood thread, he is the best Pies player I have seen until his student takes over in a few years

 

[Fadge]

Meteoric Rise's favourite algorithm - Player Ratings.

Ranking of Finals performances since 2012:


9 each of the best 18 finals played.

BUT.... the above list excludes Pendlebury's best five finals from the list I posted earlier - from Collingwood's dominant 2010/11 finals series, when he was in his prime.

Interesting.

 

[Arr0w]

Why should I share my intellectual property with you nuffies?

Not that you'd understand it anyway.

Oxymoron coming from you

 

[Meteoric Rise]

A lot of drivel, but feel free to provide your list of finals games rankings between Martin and Pendlebury, if you disagree with the data I have provided.

These below are Dusty's top finals player ratings from just 16 finals. I have just listed finals with ratings 20+. Though also a great home & away player, everybody knows his enormous reputation hinges on his incredible finals record, especially 2017-20. These ratings below are compiled by unbiased Champion Data.


33.0 2020 SF
32.1 2020 GF
30.9 2017 GF
27.3 2020 PF
26.4 2018 QF
26.3 2017 QF
22.8 2019 GF
21.5 2019 QF

That does not exhaust the list of finals in which Dusty received coaches votes.

These are Pendlebury's best finals player ratings from 2012 when the player ratings commenced.

24.7 2012 SF
22.4 2012 QF

We don't know what Pendlebury rated in his earlier finals, but given he was considered BOG in only about 1 of them and that was far from dominant(10 of max 15 votes in 2010 mulligan match Norm Smith voting,) it is a fairly good bet he never played a higher rating final than any of Dusty's top 6 rated finals.)

This is exactly why Pendlebury will never be considered anywhere near as good a player as Dusty in big games. As if we didn't already know that.

Just to give a bit more perspective on this, no other player has more than 1 x finals rating above 30, and in fact there are only about 4 or 5 of those in the last 13 finals series. Dusty has done it 3 times, twice in Grand Finals.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Meteoric Rise's favourite algorithm - Player Ratings.

Ranking of Finals performances since 2012:
View attachment 2201820

9 each of the best 18 finals played.

BUT.... the above list excludes Pendlebury's best five finals from the list I posted earlier - from Collingwood's dominant 2010/11 finals series, when he was in his prime.

Interesting.

Lol, you forgot to adjust 2020 finals to full length match ratings and Dusty still has 6 of the best 7 and 8 of the best 10, and you somehow still manage to mangle it into deluding yourself they are near equal finals performers.

 

[Fadge]

These below are Dusty's top finals player ratings from just 16 finals. I have just listed finals with ratings 20+. Though also a great home & away player, everybody knows his enormous reputation hinges on his incredible finals record, especially 2017-20. These ratings below are compiled by unbiased Champion Data.


33.0 2020 SF
32.1 2020 GF
30.9 2017 GF
27.3 2020 PF
26.4 2018 QF
26.3 2017 QF
22.8 2019 GF
21.5 2019 QF

That does not exhaust the list of finals in which Dusty received coaches votes.

These are Pendlebury's best finals player ratings from 2012 when the player ratings commenced.

24.7 2012 SF
22.4 2012 QF

We don't know what Pendlebury rated in his earlier finals, but given he was considered BOG in only about 1 of them and that was far from dominant(10 of max 15 votes in 2010 mulligan match Norm Smith voting,) it is a fairly good bet he never played a higher rating final than any of Dusty's top 6 rated finals.)

This is exactly why Pendlebury will never be considered anywhere near as good a player as Dusty in big games. As if we didn't already know that.

Just to give a bit more perspective on this, no other player has more than 1 x finals rating above 30, and in fact there are only about 4 or 5 of those in the last 13 finals series. Dusty has done it 3 times, twice in Grand Finals.

Pendlebury had Player Ratings in the 20's for his 2012 finals, and he played FIVE finals across 2010 and 2011 that were superior to both of those games...

 

[Cdog71]

Meteoric Rise's favourite algorithm - Player Ratings.

Ranking of Finals performances since 2012:
View attachment 2201820

9 each of the best 18 finals played.

BUT.... the above list excludes Pendlebury's best five finals from the list I posted earlier - from Collingwood's dominant 2010/11 finals series, when he was in his prime.

Interesting.

Doesn’t seemed to have helped very much

 

[Cdog71]

Pendlebury had Player Ratings in the 20's for his 2012 finals, and he played FIVE finals across 2010 and 2011 that were superior to both of those games...

How’d he rank in the 2018 GF with his 3 tackles?

flipping, Fadgey
Your a pisser

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Pendlebury had Player Ratings in the 20's for his 2012 finals, and he played FIVE finals across 2010 and 2011 that were superior to both of those games...

Pendlebury NEVER played a single final rated above 17.4 after the age of 24, from 15 finals. But you reckon he has played about 7 of those up to the age of 24, only nobody ever talks about this bar you Fadge. Lol.

Scott Peakearlybury.