Tom Hawkins 350 games - What is his standing in the game?

[RUNVS]

That’s because jack has some self respect

To be fair to Hawkins he averaged 2.5 goals a game in 2023. There was every reason to believe he could go around again in 2024 even if there was some drop off. I don't think anyone was expecting the drop off to be this dramatic.

In comparison Jack Riewoldt averaged around 1.5 goals per game last year, about the same as what Buddy was averaging too.

Hawkins is also averaging 1.5 goals per game this year, so 1.5 goals per game seems to be the cut off for Key Forwards, as once they are down to that figure in their 30's their career is basically done.

 

[My Tilly]

Said it many times and will get laughed at here but I find our forward line becomes a little less predictable whenever Hawkins has missed. It's great to have the big frame down there but once the ball hist the deck, he is next to useless.
A forward line comprised of Cameron, Henry, Rohan, Stengle, Dempsey is deadly. Neale is unproven but he has athleticism in his favor.

Sydney Swans were a bit similar when Franklin was down there for years.
Once he was past it, they just looked a more potent forward line whenever he missed matches.

 

[Lunchtime]

What is interesting is that how time very quickly catches up with everyone. It's almost like a script and it happens to all of them. There's no avoiding it no matter how fit etc a player is and the dropoff can be very quick too.

We saw it with Franklin, Kennedy, Riewoldt......it looks to be the same path for Hawkins too unfortunately but we will wait and see.

"The Big 4" as I call them....what a great era we have all been very lucky to watch them play for the past 17 or so years. Lots of All-Australian jumpers between them, all of them are Premiership players and they all won the most coveted medal a Forward can win, the Coleman medal. Between them they won the Coleman 10 times - fantastic.

Sort of like the era of Lockett, Dunstall and Ablett....Coleman medals galore between them.

 

[Conan Troutman]

Don't forget Hawkins had a decent start to the year.

After round 3, he was 5th in the league for average goals kicked, prior to run of 4 goalless games (he didn't play the Kangaroos game in the middle of those 4).

Average Goals at End of Round 3:

4.00	Jesse Hogan
3.67	Harry McKay
3.33	Charlie Curnow
3.33	Jake Stringer
3.00	Tom Hawkins
3.00	Cody Weightman

 

[Lunchtime]

Said it many times and will get laughed at here but I find our forward line becomes a little less predictable whenever Hawkins has missed. It's great to have the big frame down there but once the ball hist the deck, he is next to useless.
A forward line comprised of Cameron, Henry, Rohan, Stengle, Dempsey is deadly. Neale is unproven but he has athleticism in his favor.

Sydney Swans were a bit similar when Franklin was down there for years.
Once he was past it, they just looked a more potent forward line whenever he missed matches.

Yep and not that Franklin was "passed it" when he left Hawthorn but they did win a few more Premierships (2) after his departure. As you said the forward line can be a bit less predictable when the usual player isn't there.

 

[RUNVS]

Don't forget Hawkins had a decent start to the year.

After round 3, he was 5th in the league for average goals kicked, prior to run of 4 goalless games (he didn't play the Kangaroos game in the middle of those 4).

Average Goals at Round 3:

4.00	Jesse Hogan
3.67	Harry McKay
3.33	Charlie Curnow
3.33	Jake Stringer
3.00	Tom Hawkins
3.00	Cody Weightman

True, but kicking 4 goals against both Adelaide and Hawthorn helped. In fact 8 of his 9 goals kicked this season came from those 2 games, back when Adelaide was bad, and Hawthorn, well Hawthorn don't have a great defence at the moment.

 

[Lunchtime]

Don't forget Hawkins had a decent start to the year.

After round 3, he was 5th in the league for average goals kicked, prior to run of 4 goalless games (he didn't play the Kangaroos game in the middle of those 4).

Average Goals at Round 3:

4.00	Jesse Hogan
3.67	Harry McKay
3.33	Charlie Curnow
3.33	Jake Stringer
3.00	Tom Hawkins
3.00	Cody Weightman

Maintaining those stats at his age so far looks difficult. Let's see what the rest of the season tells us.

But as I said, he is either carrying an injury or out of form or old age is catching up.....or it's a combination of those things.

 

[STPer18]

That’s because jack has some self respect

I know the Tiggie train had derailed something chronic and the bandwagoners jumped off by then, but Jack's last two seasons saw 40 and 32 goals respectively. You have to go back all the way to 2011 to find a year Hawkins kicked less than 46 goals in season, let alone back-to-back seasons like Jacky. And the less said about goal assists the better - Tommy has your boy covered in all facets I fear.

 

[Xtreme]

Probably should shift him down to the VFL to "mentor" the young forwards and backs how to attack and defend respectively.

 

[craffles]

fans do love to end careers, not sure why but this is a lean patch in a super consistent last decade. The side is still performing so I’ll hold judgement until middle of the year.

 

[The 747]

Probably should shift him down to the VFL to "mentor" the young forwards and backs how to attack and defend respectively.

I highly doubt Geelong would ever drop Hawkins to the VFL. I am sure he would have a role in coaching our forwards if he wanted to.

It's looking like the end is nigh, but he might just be out of form, has copped a monsoon, then Weitering and May the last three weeks.

 

[tiger_tough]

Thanks.

So

2008 to 2011 - Riewoldt better
2012 to 2018 - The same
2019 to 2023 - Hawkins better

They're pretty much inseparable statistically over their careers. Freaky parallels.

 

[tiger_tough]

Not a bar graph but this is something I quickly put together - a table.

78 goals for a 4th year KPF is pretty rad. Forgot that.

 

[Lunchtime]

78 goals for a 4th year KPF is pretty rad. Forgot that.

He also got to the 70 mark a second time too (2018).

 

[Rich01]

He’s been an integral part of geelongs success.

Still provides a target up forward, much like Riewoldt was in his last two years.

Think his presence and ability to be a target is actually important for the cats to be successful this year. But others will need to be the ones kicking the goals, as his slow down this year has lowered his performance significantly.

 

[PhatBoy]

The stuff about him being down on pace and unable to get to as many contests etc I get as he gets older - obviously at some point that’s going to happen and that may well have happened this year. But what’s been really noticeable the last few weeks has been just the really basic things that aren’t working - he dropped a couple of marks he’d take with his eyes shut last night and looks like his confidence is shot with his kicking when he is getting a look at it. He is still having some sort of role, he has some decent touches here and there but nothing like what he’s built his career on.

 

[RUNVS]

The stuff about him being down on pace and unable to get to as many contests etc I get as he gets older - obviously at some point that’s going to happen and that may well have happened this year. But what’s been really noticeable the last few weeks has been just the really basic things that aren’t working - he dropped a couple of marks he’d take with his eyes shut last night and looks like his confidence is shot with his kicking when he is getting a look at it. He is still having some sort of role, he has some decent touches here and there but nothing like what he’s built his career on.

It was the same with Buddy in 2023. He just couldn't do what previously he did in his sleep, especially at a ground level as that had always been a strength of his. Every so often he would turn back time and I would think "Now that is Buddy" but it was very much the exception rather than the norm. I got so used to Buddy doing things every week that no other player in the league would even consider doing that it was quite sobering to see the decline.

 

[PhatBoy]

It was the same with Buddy in 2023. He just couldn't do what previously he did in his sleep, especially at a ground level as that had always been a strength of his. Every so often he would turn back time and I would think "Now that is Buddy" but it was very much the exception rather than the norm. I got so used to Buddy doing things every week that no other player in the league would even consider doing that it was quite sobering to see the decline.

I sort of think there is still the opportunity for this to change - I don’t think there’s much of an opportunity for Hawkins to just monster anyone who gets in his way but he’s getting more than enough chances to still get his couple of shots on goal a week if he can just catch the bloody thing and he’s still been good enough to spot up teammates and have some sort of impact but yeah he doesn’t look like someone who is playing with the knowledge and confidence of what they’ve built their career on and like you said with Buddy it’s a bit difficult to watch and frustrating is the other word I’d use

 

[Lunchtime]

Good list. Big names here.

 

[Lunchtime]

Tom reaches the 1400 mark for shots on goal in career. Screenshots are from the AFL app.

Total Shots in Goal: 1400
Goals: 791
Behinds: 445
No Score: 164
Goal Aacuracy: 56.5%

No Score is ball didn't make distance, out of bounds, out on the full etc

 

[kreuze_missile]

Hawkins standing somewhat depends on how you value longevity. Has played the most games out of any tall forward in the top 100 all-time goals list but career stats get massively inflated due to tenure. Per-game averages aren't overly compelling.

For me, he is not in the Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett snr god tier. He's also not in the next tier either with Lloyd, Richardson, Carey.

Jack Riewoldt & Jarryd Roughead

Jarryd Roughead

Age

37

Ht

193cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.6

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.3

4star

G

2.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

7.2

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.8

3star

G

1.0

4star

are very relevant comparisons. One-club players with long tenure. Multiple flags. Some individual recognition. But never considered the best player on their team or anywhere near it.

Probably makes the Hall of Fame but is likely to be forgotten about post-retirement. I doubt there will ever be a Hawkins stand at Kardinia Park.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hawkins standing somewhat depends on how you value longevity. Has played the most games out of any tall forward in the top 100 all-time goals list but career stats get massively inflated due to tenure. Per-game averages aren't overly compelling.

For me, he is not in the Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett snr god tier. He's also not in the next tier either with Lloyd, Richardson, Carey.

Jack Riewoldt & Jarryd Roughead are very relevant comparisons. One-club players with long tenure. Multiple flags. Some individual recognition. But never considered the best player on their team or anywhere near it.

Probably makes the Hall of Fame but is likely to be forgotten about post-retirement. I doubt there will ever be a Hawkins stand at Kardinia Park.

Lolllllll yes I’m sure no one will remember him.

Everyone has already forgotten about Jarryd Roughead for example who you just mentioned. I don’t even know who he is.

And yes as at worst the third or fourth best player in the team for over a decade and frequently the second best and probably at times the best he was ‘nowhere near’ the best. That’s a great point.

 

[Lunchtime]

Hawkins standing somewhat depends on how you value longevity. Has played the most games out of any tall forward in the top 100 all-time goals list but career stats get massively inflated due to tenure. Per-game averages aren't overly compelling.

For me, he is not in the Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett snr god tier. He's also not in the next tier either with Lloyd, Richardson, Carey.

Jack Riewoldt & Jarryd Roughead are very relevant comparisons. One-club players with long tenure. Multiple flags. Some individual recognition. But never considered the best player on their team or anywhere near it.

Probably makes the Hall of Fame but is likely to be forgotten about post-retirement. I doubt there will ever be a Hawkins stand at Kardinia Park.

Hang on, so you rate Lloyd/Richardson ahead of Hawkins?

Riewoldt is probably better than Roughhead. Riewoldt is equal to Hawkins. Riewoldt and Hawkins I'd say are better than Roughhead.

What tier do Riewoldt and Hawkins fit into? Both are Premiership players, both are Coleman medallists (Jack won 3), both are Best and Fairest winners at their clubs (Jack won 2). Both are All Australian winners too (Tom = 5, Jack = 3).

It's probably fair to say that Riewoldt and Hawkins are ahead of Roughead.

 

[The 747]

Hawkins standing somewhat depends on how you value longevity. Has played the most games out of any tall forward in the top 100 all-time goals list but career stats get massively inflated due to tenure. Per-game averages aren't overly compelling.

For me, he is not in the Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett snr god tier. He's also not in the next tier either with Lloyd, Richardson, Carey.

Jack Riewoldt & Jarryd Roughead are very relevant comparisons. One-club players with long tenure. Multiple flags. Some individual recognition. But never considered the best player on their team or anywhere near it.

Probably makes the Hall of Fame but is likely to be forgotten about post-retirement. I doubt there will ever be a Hawkins stand at Kardinia Park.

Carey is on the next tier? Do you mean Wayne Carey or Stefan Carey?

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Absolute gun forward. Had a fairly slow but steady improvement curve early on, which I think caused people to question him, but he got to the top and has stayed there. Unselfish too, gives away plenty of goals. Passed his peak now, but at it he would be first picked in just about every team, and could easily go one more season if he felt like it.