Scott Pendlebury - Standing in the game?

[Fadge]

These below are Dusty's top finals player ratings from just 16 finals. I have just listed finals with ratings 20+. Though also a great home & away player, everybody knows his enormous reputation hinges on his incredible finals record, especially 2017-20. These ratings below are compiled by unbiased Champion Data.


33.0 2020 SF
32.1 2020 GF
30.9 2017 GF
27.3 2020 PF
26.4 2018 QF
26.3 2017 QF
22.8 2019 GF
21.5 2019 QF

That does not exhaust the list of finals in which Dusty received coaches votes.

These are Pendlebury's best finals player ratings from 2012 when the player ratings commenced.

24.7 2012 SF
22.4 2012 QF

We don't know what Pendlebury rated in his earlier finals, but given he was considered BOG in only about 1 of them and that was far from dominant(10 of max 15 votes in 2010 mulligan match Norm Smith voting,) it is a fairly good bet he never played a higher rating final than any of Dusty's top 6 rated finals.)

This is exactly why Pendlebury will never be considered anywhere near as good a player as Dusty in big games. As if we didn't already know that.

Just to give a bit more perspective on this, no other player has more than 1 x finals rating above 30, and in fact there are only about 4 or 5 of those in the last 13 finals series. Dusty has done it 3 times, twice in Grand Finals.

So Martin has 3 finals games with a Player Rating over 30, as long as you adjust 2 of them by assuming he would have done additional things that he didn't do in those games....

 

[Fadge]

Doesn’t seemed to have helped very much

Of course that would be the conclusion of someone who doesn't understand data.

 

[Fadge]

Pendlebury NEVER played a single final rated above 17.4 after the age of 24, from 15 finals. But you reckon he has played about 7 of those up to the age of 24, only nobody ever talks about this bar you Fadge. Lol.

Scott Peakearlybury.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I have shared the data for those performances.

How would you rank the 5 games across 2010 and 2011, in comparison to his 2012 finals performances?

 

[TheUnicorn]

Pendlebury > Martin

 

[Meteoric Rise]

So Martin has 3 finals games with a Player Rating over 30, as long as you adjust 2 of them by assuming he would have done additional things that he didn't do in those games....

Totally fair adjustment using the only credible method available.

But to dumb it down for you, here are those 2 performances adjusted back to 80% game time v the 2nd highest rating player in those 2 games....

GF Dusty 25.7 v 2nd highest rated player 21.0(Cats player)

SF Dusty 26.4 v 2nd highest rated player 22.4(best Saints player 16.2)

and let's throw in the 2020 PF shit fight:

PF Dusty 21.8 v 2nd highest rated player 14.8(best Port player 14.3)

That was just 3 weeks in succession Dusty was a dominant BOG in player ratings.

Pendlebury has recorded the highest rating on the ground once ever - from his 15 finals that have been rated.

 

[Fadge]

Pendlebury has recorded the highest rating on the ground once ever - from his 15 finals that have been rated.

Yep, let's continue to completely disregard the best five finals Pendlebury has played.

 

[doppleganger]

I can appreciate a lot of this, but ultimately for me it comes down to this - Both have/had decorated careers, Dusty more revered in finals, Pendles obviously the longevity and consistency with season after season of quality footy... But when I think of players who truly changed the game and were genuinely unstoppable at their best, Dusty is in that conversation, Pendles is not.

Yeah that is the standard narrative, and people tend to associate physical power and dominance as being unstoppable.

Dusty had the don't argue, burst of power to break tackles...that is different to Pendles with a sidestep, baulk, ability to find space where other players get pinged.

Pendles has and always will be a death by a thousand cuts footballer and imo that's the reason he's never going to be held in as high regard by non Pie fans eyes.

Another issue I have with arguing he's in the top 5 of this century, is you could argue Pendles hasn't even been the best player on his team for the majority of his career. For me Swan was the better of the two - can argue that one either way, they were hard to split and incredibly good as a tandem .

What bollocks.

Pendles has 5 BnFs, 6 runner ups, and 3 thirds in the Pies BnF.

Dusty only had two BnFs, so for the majority of Dusty's career he wasn't even the Tigers best player. Surely a possible top10 player of the century should have more than 2 club BnFs!!?

Pendles finished 2nd/3rd in the BnF when he was just 19-22 yrs old. Finishing behind Swan is hardly a bad thing for a 20 yr old.

Pendles won his first BnF in 2011 when 23 and finished above Swan every year from 2011 onwards.

2007-10, Pendles was our 2nd best player as a 19-22 yr old
2011-16, Pendles peak age of 23-28 he won 5.

During Pendles peak he was unquestionably the Pies best, he also was also rated as the coaches best player in 2013 and finished top10 in coaches award every year from 2011-16 during his peak. Pendles was the star mid season avg of 17 in player rating, supercoach above 120, disposals 29, 70+ coaches votes each year.

2017-24, Pendles had 5 more podium finishes, even as a 34 year old he was our 2nd best player.

Weirdly playing another 8 quality seasons seems to count against Pendles for most, instead of enhance his standing. As they almost forget his dominant years.

Grundy was clearly the Pies best player for 2-3 years after that from 2017-2019 imo.

Yep Grundy had a good couple of years, but like Dusty in 16-17.

Crisp, Moore and Degoey took that mantle as Grundy and Pendlebury dropped off and now Nick is clearly the Pies best.

Pendles still came 2nd in Pies BnF in 2019, 2020 and 2022.

Nick took over in 2023.

When Judd, GAJ, Dusty etc were at their best there was simply nobody better. They dominated on ball, they dominated up forward, they were just irrepressible forces in the game no matter what opposition teams threw at them. I've never felt the same about Pendles.

Dusty only won two Richmond BnFs
Prior to 2016, Cotchin was Richmond's best.

At least Judd had a similar peak to Pendles - 2004-10 he won 5 BnFs in 7 seasons. Judd never won the ball as much, but he did hit the scoreboard at WC..at Carlton he didn't.

Fyfe hasn't had the longevity of the others but for the same reason I hold him in very high regard. His peak form before he broke his leg was like some sort of video game 'create a character' come to life.

Fyfe had 3-4 years of quality 13,14,15,19 where injury didn't hamper him.

That was his supercoach 120s, players rating 18s coaches votes in the 90s, and picked up his two brownlows and 3 BnFs.

Again it seems burning brightly for a short time helps the narrative.

Either way, Pendles is a great of the game and will be celebrated as such when he does eventually hang them up. But for me he isn't in the conversation for the best of the best, just an extremely good player.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion though.

Agree.

Many favour the blokes who have a good season or two, over a bloke who was a top 10 player in the league for almost a decade.

That is up to them.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I have shared the data for those performances.

How would you rank the 5 games across 2010 and 2011, in comparison to his 2012 finals performances?

In Pendlebury's 2 best 2012 finals where he was highest & 4th highest rated player on the ground Pendlebury averaged:

29.5 disposals
0.5 Goals + Goal Assists
6 tackles
14.5 Contested Possessions
4.5 Score Involvements

Which specific 5 finals in 2010-11 are you saying were superior to BOTH of his 2012 finals?

 

[Fadge]

Which specific 5 finals in 2010-11 are you saying were superior to BOTH of his 2012 finals?

The 5 games I listed as his best finals in the data shared in post #1509.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Yep, let's continue to completely disregard the best five finals Pendlebury has played.

Ok and you prefer to completely disregard the fact he never played a decent final after age 24. But is somehow ear par with Dusty in finals.

 

[Fadge]

Ok and you prefer to completely disregard the fact he never played a decent final after age 24. But is somehow ear par with Dusty in finals.

Except for the 2023 Grand Final, where he steered his team across the line as a 35 year old, for starters...

 

[doppleganger]

How’d he rank in the 2018 GF with his 3 tackles?

flipping, Fadgey
Your a pisser

All four of Pendles finals in 2018 returned better rankings than Dusty with his 6.6 in the 2018 PF.

And remember Pendles was already past his peak in 2018 being in his 30s, Dusty was smack bang in his prime.

 

[Fadge]

All four of Pendles finals in 2018 returned better rankings than Dusty with his 6.6 in the 2018 PF.

And remember Pendles was already past his peak in 2018 being in his 30s, Dusty was smack bang in his prime.

Shhh.

We don't talk about Martin's poor finals...we have to pretend they didn't happen.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The 5 games I listed as his best finals in the data shared in post #1509.

He averaged in those 5 finals 2010-11:

32 disposals
0.8 Goals + Goal Assists
5.6 Tackles
13.1 Contested Possessions

v 2012 best 2 rated finals:

29.5 disposals
0.5 Goals + Goal Assists
6 tackles
14.5 Contested Possessions


You are talking rubbish as usual. There is no obvious material difference between the 2 samples. He did slightly better for scoring & diposals in the first sample but better for tackles & contested possessions in the second sample.

He has probably recorded 5-6 or up to 7 finals(or as few as 4) above 20 rating in the 3 seasons combined. But he wouldn't be clear dominant player on the ground in any of those(or if so 1-2 max).

His best handful of finals don't stack up anywhere near Dusty's. But that is stating the obvious.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

All four of Pendles finals in 2018 returned better rankings than Dusty with his 6.6 in the 2018 PF.

And remember Pendles was already past his peak in 2018 being in his 30s, Dusty was smack bang in his prime.

Dusty still averaged a rating of 16.5 in finals in 2018 despite playing one of those badly hampered by a leg injury.

Pendlebury's BEST final that year from 4 was a 12.1 rating.

 

[Fadge]

He averaged in those 5 finals 2010-11:

32 disposals
0.8 Goals + Goal Assists
5.6 Tackles
13.1 Contested Possessions

v 2012 best 2 rated finals:

29.5 disposals
0.5 Goals + Goal Assists
6 tackles
14.5 Contested Possessions


You are talking rubbish as usual. There is no obvious material difference between the 2 samples. He did slightly better for scoring & diposals in the first sample but better for tackles & contested possessions in the second sample.

He has probably recorded 5-6 or up to 7 finals(or as few as 4) above 20 rating in the 3 seasons combined. But he wouldn't be clear dominant player on the ground in any of those(or if so 1-2 max).

His best handful of finals don't stack up anywhere near Dusty's. But that is stating the obvious.

Keep judging from a stats sheet.

Conversely, I watched all of his finals so can therefore relatively assess them.

 

[Fadge]

Dusty still averaged a rating of 16.5 in finals in 2018 despite playing one of those badly hampered by a leg injury.

Pendlebury's BEST final that year from 4 was a 12.1 rating.

Pendlebury was 30 by the time the 2018 Finals series came around.

Martin's only finals performance as a 30 plus year old - the 2022 Elimination Final - which was another poor performance in a loss.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Keep judging from a stats sheet.

Conversely, I watched all of his finals so can therefore relatively assess them.

Yep but we have seen your assessments are massively biased compared to objective ratings.

Where is the objective evidence of Pendlebury's dominant finals performances?

It is simple with Dusty, he is head, shoulders, chest waist & thighs above the field when it comes to his finals performaces v others over the last 13 seasons based on total & average coaches votes, average, median & best player ratings, & Norm Smith Medal voting.

So Pedlebury has played in 5 matches for which Norm Smith Medal votes were given - 4 in his prime. How does he stack up v Dusty there?

Pendlebury has played in 15 finals where coaches votes were given(7 of those aged 31 or younger,) how do his coaches votes stack up v Dusty's?

Where are all the articles from 2010-11 proclaiming Pendlebury clear BOG in some of those finals? Where are the best player lists listing him as BOG? Media votes?

We want to believe he has a great finals record Fadge, but you are going to need to support your view with something objective, because you(& you alone) are saying his finals record is almost on a par with Dusty's.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Pendlebury was 30 by the time the 2018 Finals series came around.

Martin's only finals performance as a 30 plus year old - the 2022 Elimination Final - which was another poor performance in a loss.

If Pendlebury is still playing in 2025 you can hardly be claiming he was cooked due to age in 2018, 19-20.

 

[Cdog71]

All four of Pendles finals in 2018 returned better rankings than Dusty with his 6.6 in the 2018 PF.

And remember Pendles was already past his peak in 2018 being in his 30s, Dusty was smack bang in his prime.

Pendlebury was better in finals than Dusty…?
Fmd

What was Bobby Hills ranking when he won the NS?
You can play if you like Fadge

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Pendlebury was 30 by the time the 2018 Finals series came around.

Martin's only finals performance as a 30 plus year old - the 2022 Elimination Final - which was another poor performance in a loss.

Lol, how does this bring Pendlebury closer to Martin's overall finals record?

Dusty was first up for 9 weeks off a serious injury, had no pre-season, played 9 games total in 2022, was off a horrendous injury that ended his 2021 season, & had well documented grief and injury issues during 2022. And still managed to rate 10.1 in that final. Pendlebury himself has turned in multiple weaker performances in finals with no known excuse.

 

[Fadge]

If Pendlebury is still playing in 2025 you can hardly be claiming he was cooked due to age in 2018, 19-20.

I never said he was cooked.

You're referencing finals data from when Martin was 26 to 29.

We have finals data for Pendlebury when he was 24/25, and again from when he was 30 or older. We are missing his 5 best finals games, which were played as a 22/23 year old.

And when we assess ALL the data, we conclude the gap between Martin's finals career and Pendlebury's finals career isn't as great as the narrative suggests, despite Martin playing all his best finals in the prime of his career, with all of Pendlebury's finals as a relative youngster, or an elder statesman of the game.

 

[Fadge]

What was Bobby Hills ranking when he won the NS?
You can play if you like Fadge

Indeed - which is a classic example as to why Player Ratings aren't all Meteoric Ruse makes them out to be...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I never said he was cooked.

You're referencing finals data from when Martin was 26 to 29.

We have finals data for Pendlebury when he was 24/25, and again from when he was 30 or older. We are missing his 5 best finals games, which were played as a 22/23 year old.

And when we assess ALL the data, we conclude the gap between Martin's finals career and Pendlebury's finals career isn't as great as the narrative suggests, despite Martin playing all his best finals in the prime of his career, with all of Pendlebury's finals as a relative youngster, or an elder statesman of the game.

We are missing ratings & coaches votes for what you alone are saying are Pendlebury's 5 best finals performances.

If Pendlebury from 31 finals can come close to matching Dusty's(from 16 total finals) 7 x finals #1 + 1 x #2 best player rating on the ground, 3 clear best player in finals awards, 3 clear Norm Smith Medals....then show us any objective evidence you have. Or STFU.

 

[doppleganger]

Pendlebury was 30 by the time the 2018 Finals series came around.

Martin's only finals performance as a 30 plus year old - the 2022 Elimination Final - which was another poor performance in a loss.

Dusty dropped another 6.7 player rating stinker against NM in 2015 in his prime.

Not surprising as Dusty only won 2 BnFs and didn't have a sustained peak like the real champions of the game.