Scott Pendlebury - Standing in the game?

[Fadge]

Ironically Pendlebury = LeBron is actually a status elevator, despite the intentions of that post.

He needed to find a player that was well below LeBron's level but had a long and good career, for it to work.

Let's leave it at LeBron, I'm fine with that.

 

[Yoda_]

Ironically Pendlebury = LeBron is actually a status elevator, despite the intentions of that post.

He needed to find a player that was well below LeBron's level but had a long and good career, for it to work.

again, not the comparison t all

 

[Fadge]

again, not the comparison t all

I'm not sure you know what you're trying to say...

 

[Mr Meow]

again, not the comparison t all

No worries, I probably missed which comparison you made. It looked like LeBron/Pendlebury but there might have been a bit in there that said "ignore this".

 

[Yoda_]

No worries, I probably missed which comparison you made. It looked like LeBron/Pendlebury but there might have been a bit in there that said "ignore this".

I guess I need to simplify this even more and dumb it down


Lebron James has played lots which gives fuel to the fire he is the GOAT. Some people suggest he isn't even in the top 5 NBA players of all time



If you want a more able comparison, Dirk Nowitzki is more like Pendles. Very good player but mot in the top echelon of players of all time.

 

[Fadge]

I guess I need to simplify this even more and dumb it down


Lebron James has played lots which gives fuel to the fire he is the GOAT. Some people suggest he isn't even in the top 5 NBA players of all time



If you want a more able comparison, Dirk Nowitzki is more like Pendles. Very good player but mot in the top echelon of players of all time.

I'm glad you clarified. I can sleep easy now tonight.

 

[Yoda_]

I'm glad you clarified. I can sleep easy now tonight.

Most welcome. Just a man of the people

 

[Mr Meow]

I guess I need to simplify this even more and dumb it down


Lebron James has played lots which gives fuel to the fire he is the GOAT. Some people suggest he isn't even in the top 5 NBA players of all time



If you want a more able comparison, Dirk Nowitzki is more like Pendles. Very good player but mot in the top echelon of players of all time.

I'm not sure how "some people think LeBron is the GOAT, some think he isn't even in the top 5 players of all time" is in any way making the point you intended. Finally, when pushed, you gave a more suitable example.

 

[Yoda_]

I'm not sure how "some people think LeBron is the GOAT, some think he isn't even in the top 5 players of all time" is in any way making the point you intended. Finally, when pushed, you gave a more suitable example.

if the point is missed, best we cease going around in circles

 

[Mr Meow]

if the point is missed, best we cease going around in circles

We didn't go around in circles though, because you gave a more suitable example to illustrate the point you originally wanted to make.

In other words the flaw was pointed out and you made the correction. So you did a good job.

 

[Yoda_]

We didn't go around in circles though, because you gave a more suitable example to illustrate the point you originally wanted to make.

In other words the flaw was pointed out and you made the correction. So you did a good job.

we'll go with that

 

[Mr Meow]

we'll go with that

If you edit your original post to replace LeBron with Dirk, we have a home run situation but I won't expect too much.

 

[Yoda_]

So anyways, Is Pendlebury an all time great? probably no in the GOAT conversation but an exceptionally good player none the less

 

[Mr Meow]

So anyways, Is Pendlebury an all time great? probably no in the GOAT conversation but an exceptionally good player none the less

Kind of a Dirk Notwitki type. Very good player but mot in the top echelon of players of all time.

 

[Fadge]

I see Dirk was ranked #25 in a recent ranking of the GOAT NBA players. Not bad - happy to take that for Pendlebury.

https://clutchpoints.com/updating-ranking-the-50-greatest-players-nba

Edit: LeBron was ranked #2...

 

[Mr Meow]

I see Dirk was ranked #25 in a recent ranking of the GOAT NBA players. Not bad - happy to take that for Pendlebury.

https://clutchpoints.com/updating-ranking-the-50-greatest-players-nba

#25 from every player in a sport's history is incredible.

I wouldn't go as far as Yoda_ , but there's no doubt Pendlebury has been an outstanding player of the 21st century.

 

[Arr0w]

Who are your top 10 of the past 20 years, in order, out of interest? Genuinely interested to see where or if Pendles would feature in that.

Who are your top 10 in the 21st century, in order, out of interest?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Possibly the closest you've got to a factual statement today.

Total PM's shared between myself and Meow in the last week = 0.

You must forget Mr Fadge, I know exactly how you operate.

There ws a time it was me you were PM'ing begging me to gang up with you against Carlton supporters.

Mr "Safety in numbers" Fadge.

 

[doppleganger]

The artist formerly known as Doppleganger is now to be known as Fadge's Doppleganger.

You are now listing Pendlebury finals with player ratings of 14.4, 15.8, 12.8, 17.0, 17.1, 14.3, 17.4 as "great" finals for Pendlebury.

There are no coaches votes or player ratings for 2007-11. So can't be questioning those games.

The below finals Pendles either received coaches votes (fair indication of a great game) or was in top4 players on the ground for player ratings (a fair indication of a great game)

2012 QF, SF, PF
2019 QF
2022 QF, SF, PF
2023 PF, GF

9 great finals (that don't include his actual best 5 finals from 2010-11)

32 touches and 2 goals
29 touches, 11 tackles and a norm smith
38 touches, 5 clearances
32 touches, 7 inside 50s
33 touches, 10 clearances

Would have got coaches votes and high player ratings for them if given at the time.

Which is pretty funny, because Dusty's overall career average player rating including all his quiet finals is comfortably over 18. That is, Dusty's career finals average is above 7 Pendlebury finals you are describing as great.

Is that using your made up figures or his actual ratings?

Below are Dusty's finals - use the same criteria to rate Pendles. A great finals when in coaches votes or in top4 of player ratings.

2013 - 0 great finals
2014 - 0 great finals
2015 - 0 great finals
2017 - 2 great finals (QF and GF)
2018 - 1 great finals (QF)
2019 - 2 great finals (QF and GF)
2020 - 3 great finals (SF, PF and GF)
2022 - 0 great finals

Dusty played 8 great finals in Richmond's strong run, and was 3 for 3 in GFs which is where the narrative comes from.

An amazing record, but Pendles played more like 15 great finals (including 3 great GFs).

Which tells us all we need to know, Dusty's "average" is above Pendlebury's "great" in finals.

Yes when you keep ignoring that 5 of Pendles best finals were prior to player ratings and coaches votes, of course his "averages" would take a hit.

Why not ignore 5 of Dusty's best 5 finals to level the playing field?

Pendles played many more great finals games than Dusty.

Personal preference if you prefer a bloke who avg 34+ disposals, 5 tackles and 7 clearances or a bloke who avg 18 disposals and 4 goals across 3 finals games The dominant mid or the dominant finisher.

During his earlier 13 finals before player ratings Pendlebury averaged 24 disposals and exactly 1 Goal + Goals assist. This is more or less in line with his overall career finals average for disposals and just above his average for goals + goal assists, which is 0.77.

LoL
You don't use the average when talking up peak

Pendles avg 34 disposals, 5 tackles and 6 clearances in the 2011 finals (his peak) where all 3 games better than his 2012 games.

In 2012 Pendles avg finals player ratings was 21.5. if he avg that much in 2012, safe to assume he would have been better in 2011.

Dusty only had 2 finals series we he averaged 20+ player ratings, so Pendles would have matched him (and potentially had 3 if 2010 went his way).

2010 would have been close (3 more big games, but 1 quiet one).

30 disp 2 goals and 7 clearances in QF
24 disp 2 goals, 7 tackles & 5 clearances in PF
29 disp, 11 tackles and 6 clearances in replay
19 disp and 6 tackles in GF

Dusty's corresponding career career finals averages are 22 disposals and a massive 2.8 goals + assists.

You can write reams mate, you are not making Pendlebury's finals performances come anywhere near Dusty's.

Pendles avg 24 disposals, 5 clearances, 5 tackles and 11 CPs in finals

Pendles in finals - 17 finals wins, 14 great finals games, 743 disposals, 158 tackles, 151 clearances, 328 CPs, 115 I50s and 9 goals

Dusty in finals - 10 finals wins, 8 great finals games, 352 disposals, 31 tackles, 59 clearances, 182 CPs, 75 I50s and 27 goals

Just consider this.

Dusty 3 Grand Finals for 43 Norm Smith Medal votes. Average votes per match 14.33.

Total votes is falling for the popular schtick.

Cripps 2024 brownlow year was 25% better than Dusty in 2017 if running with your how many votes crap.

And you are trying to dress up SP getting votes in 3 of these matches as if it is somehow equivalent to Dusty almost maxing all 3 Grand Finals he played in.

Nope, simply stating that even when 34, Pendles played great finals where he received coaches votes or was in top4 players on the ground in player ratings.

Pendles has played more great finals games than Dusty did.

So again it is the same argument...does someone prefer a bloke with a higher peak (ie Dusty 2017 / Dusty 3 norms) or the bloke who had more elite seasons and played more great finals games.

Pendles was a Top20, top10 player in the game for much longer than Dusty. And both only had 1 year noted as the best.

AFLCA leaderboard

2010 - Pendles Top20 (12th), Dusty nowhere
2011 - Pendles Top10 (7th), Dusty nowhere
2012 - Pendles Top10 (9th), Dusty nowhere
2013 - Pendles 1st, Dusty Top20 (18th)
2014 - Pendles Top10 (6th), Dusty nowhere
2015 - Pendles Top10 (9th), Dusty Top 20 (15th)
2016 - Pendles Top20 (13th), Dusty Top 10 (3rd)
2017 - Pendles nowhere, Dusty 1st
2018 - Pendles Top20 (15th), Dusty Top 10 (8th)
2019 - Pendles Top20 (14th), Dusty Top 20 (12th)
2020 - Pendles Top20 (13th), Dusty Top 20 (15th)


He has the BnFs - 5 to 2
Pendles has the AAs - 6 to 4

Pendles also has all the career totals
Pendles also has the better avg player ratings, and highest individual game rating

But yes, Dusty single peak season when he was the best was slightly better then when Pendles was the best.

Some people prefer blokes who have a season out of the box...ie Kouta who burn really brightly for an intense peak, others go for the bloke who dominated the competition for more than a decade in Banger Harvey.

 

[Chronz]

There are no coaches votes or player ratings for 2007-11. So can't be questioning those games.

The below finals Pendles either received coaches votes (fair indication of a great game) or was in top4 players on the ground for player ratings (a fair indication of a great game)

2012 QF, SF, PF
2019 QF
2022 QF, SF, PF
2023 PF, GF

9 great finals (that don't include his actual best 5 finals from 2010-11)

32 touches and 2 goals
29 touches, 11 tackles and a norm smith
38 touches, 5 clearances
32 touches, 7 inside 50s
33 touches, 10 clearances

Would have got coaches votes and high player ratings for them if given at the time.

Is that using your made up figures or his actual ratings?

Below are Dusty's finals - use the same criteria to rate Pendles. A great finals when in coaches votes or in top4 of player ratings.

2013 - 0 great finals
2014 - 0 great finals
2015 - 0 great finals
2017 - 2 great finals (QF and GF)
2018 - 1 great finals (QF)
2019 - 2 great finals (QF and GF)
2020 - 3 great finals (SF, PF and GF)
2022 - 0 great finals

Dusty played 8 great finals in Richmond's strong run, and was 3 for 3 in GFs which is where the narrative comes from.

An amazing record, but Pendles played more like 15 great finals (including 3 great GFs).

Yes when you keep ignoring that 5 of Pendles best finals were prior to player ratings and coaches votes, of course his "averages" would take a hit.

Why not ignore 5 of Dusty's best 5 finals to level the playing field?

Pendles played many more great finals games than Dusty.

Personal preference if you prefer a bloke who avg 34+ disposals, 5 tackles and 7 clearances or a bloke who avg 18 disposals and 4 goals across 3 finals games The dominant mid or the dominant finisher.

LoL
You don't use the average when talking up peak

Pendles avg 34 disposals, 5 tackles and 6 clearances in the 2011 finals (his peak) where all 3 games better than his 2012 games.

In 2012 Pendles avg finals player ratings was 21.5. if he avg that much in 2012, safe to assume he would have been better in 2011.

Dusty only had 2 finals series we he averaged 20+ player ratings, so Pendles would have matched him (and potentially had 3 if 2010 went his way).

2010 would have been close (3 more big games, but 1 quiet one).

30 disp 2 goals and 7 clearances in QF
24 disp 2 goals, 7 tackles & 5 clearances in PF
29 disp, 11 tackles and 6 clearances in replay
19 disp and 6 tackles in GF


Pendles avg 24 disposals, 5 clearances, 5 tackles and 11 CPs in finals

Pendles in finals - 17 finals wins, 14 great finals games, 743 disposals, 158 tackles, 151 clearances, 328 CPs, 115 I50s and 9 goals

Dusty in finals - 10 finals wins, 8 great finals games, 352 disposals, 31 tackles, 59 clearances, 182 CPs, 75 I50s and 27 goals


Total votes is falling for the popular schtick.

Cripps 2024 brownlow year was 25% better than Dusty in 2017 if running with your how many votes crap.


Nope, simply stating that even when 34, Pendles played great finals where he received coaches votes or was in top4 players on the ground in player ratings.

Pendles has played more great finals games than Dusty did.

So again it is the same argument...does someone prefer a bloke with a higher peak (ie Dusty 2017 / Dusty 3 norms) or the bloke who had more elite seasons and played more great finals games.

Pendles was a Top20, top10 player in the game for much longer than Dusty. And both only had 1 year noted as the best.

AFLCA leaderboard

2010 - Pendles Top20 (12th), Dusty nowhere
2011 - Pendles Top10 (7th), Dusty nowhere
2012 - Pendles Top10 (9th), Dusty nowhere
2013 - Pendles 1st, Dusty Top20 (18th)
2014 - Pendles Top10 (6th), Dusty nowhere
2015 - Pendles Top10 (9th), Dusty Top 20 (15th)
2016 - Pendles Top20 (13th), Dusty Top 10 (3rd)
2017 - Pendles nowhere, Dusty 1st
2018 - Pendles Top20 (15th), Dusty Top 10 (8th)
2019 - Pendles Top20 (14th), Dusty Top 20 (12th)
2020 - Pendles Top20 (13th), Dusty Top 20 (15th)


He has the BnFs - 5 to 2
Pendles has the AAs - 6 to 4

Pendles also has all the career totals
Pendles also has the better avg player ratings, and highest individual game rating

But yes, Dusty single peak season when he was the best was slightly better then when Pendles was the best.

Some people prefer blokes who have a season out of the box...ie Kouta who burn really brightly for an intense peak, others go for the bloke who dominated the competition for more than a decade in Banger Harvey.

Very comprehensive. This will make MR's head spin for days.

 

[doppleganger]

#25 from every player in a sport's history is incredible.

I wouldn't go as far as Yoda_ , but there's no doubt Pendlebury has been an outstanding player of the 21st century.

Tim Duncan another decent comparison to Pendles. Not the big power baller who tended to "dominate" games, but a guy who like Pendles just played great ball and had a year where he was rated best in the league and won a finals MVP (norm smith) and carried his team for a good 15 years with little fanfare and let his numbers and performance on court speak for itself.

However, LeBron is the bloke who has done it for 20 years and will dominate the NBA record books, just like Pendles will for AFL

Pendles only player with 10,000+ disposals
Pendles only player with 1900+ tackles
Pendles 2nd most CPs ever with 4000+
Pendles 5th most clearances closing in on 1800
Pendles 5th most i50s, closing in on 1500
Pendles 2nd most goals assists ever with 300+
Pendles 4th most games ever with 400+

No other midfielder in history, let alone 21st century, gets near him for total output and overall impact he has had.

 

[Mr Meow]

Who are your top 10 in the 21st century, in order, out of interest?

Why would I put together anything like that for the likes of you, who has repeatedly said you have no interest in anything I say, and don't value my opinion?

 

[Mr Meow]

Very comprehensive. This will make MR's head spin for days.

Interestingly poor MR has been unable to produce Dusty's average finals series rating for each year he played finals. He must have the data as he has shown the overall averages. But he hasn't got the analytical skills to put together a per season average. Does anyone have the raw data so that someone can kindly help him with the exercise?