Scott Pendlebury - Standing in the game?

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Meteoric Rise said:
2017 24.1 average
2018 16.5 average
2019 18.6 average
2020 26.9 average




Others:

Bontempelli best 18.75
Cripps best 12.66
Heeney 14.66
Gawn 14.5
Neale 20.6
Nick Daycare 10.9
Petracca 23.66
Warner 19.33
Butters 10.1
Newcombe 17.8
Holmes 18.0
J Kelly 16.8
Liberatore 16.5
T Green 17.2
Dangerfield 21.1
Walsh 16.9
T Kelly 15.4
Dunkley 13.2
Jezza Cameron 13.6
B Grundy 19.6
Pendlebury 21.5(2nd best 15.6)
Oliver 19.9
Selwood 24.3
J Kennedy(Swans) 20.6
Swan 15.6(only one series applicable)
Cyril 15.8
S Mitchell 20.7
Cotchin 14.6
Fyfe 17.2
T Greene 23.8
J Macrae 16.8


So from all those players I could think of here are the top 16 rated finals series by average player rating across multiple games(2, 3 or 4)

1. Martin 26.9(4 games)
2. Selwood 24.3(2 games)
3. Martin 24.1(3 games)
4. T Greene 23.8(2 games)
5. Petracca 23.7(3 games)
6. Selwood 21.6(2 games)
7. Pendlebury 21.5(3 games)
8. Dangerfield 21.1(2 games)
9. J Kenney(Swans) 20.6(2 games)
10. S Mitchell 20.7(3 games)
11. Neale 20.6(2 games)
12. Oliver 19.9(3 games)
13. Grundy 19.6(2 games)
14. Warner 19.3(3 games)
15. Bontempelli 18.8(4 games)
16. Martin 18.6(3 games)

The order for players who played 3 or more games in a finals series is:

1. Martin 26.9
2. Martin 24.1
3. Petracca 23.7
4. Pendlebury 21.5
5. S Mitchell 20.7
6. Oliver 19.9
7. Warner 19.3
8. Bontempelli 18.8
9. Martin 18.6
10. Holmes 18.0

We can see Pendlebury's 2012 sits pretty high in this table, but it is a fair way off the pace of the top 3 full finals series based on average player ratings. I doubt Pendlebury's average player ratings in the 2010 & 11 finals series would be higher than his 2012 average. You can see that by looking at his stats. There is absolutely nothing in those 2 series to suggest he would have challenged the top 3 rated finals series recorded by Martin, Martin & Petracca.
Click to expand...
Are there any 'adjustments' you are going to highlight in that analysis?

Interesting you've also excluded the years Martin played in finals outside of 2017 to 2020 (his peak, and his team's peak).
 
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doppleganger said:
There are no coaches votes or player ratings for 2007-11. So can't be questioning those games.

The below finals Pendles either received coaches votes (fair indication of a great game) or was in top4 players on the ground for player ratings (a fair indication of a great game)

2012 QF, SF, PF
2019 QF
2022 QF, SF, PF
2023 PF, GF

9 great finals (that don't include his actual best 5 finals from 2010-11)

32 touches and 2 goals
29 touches, 11 tackles and a norm smith
38 touches, 5 clearances
32 touches, 7 inside 50s
33 touches, 10 clearances

Would have got coaches votes and high player ratings for them if given at the time.

Is that using your made up figures or his actual ratings?

Below are Dusty's finals - use the same criteria to rate Pendles. A great finals when in coaches votes or in top4 of player ratings.

2013 - 0 great finals
2014 - 0 great finals
2015 - 0 great finals
2017 - 2 great finals (QF and GF)
2018 - 1 great finals (QF)
2019 - 2 great finals (QF and GF)
2020 - 3 great finals (SF, PF and GF)
2022 - 0 great finals

Dusty played 8 great finals in Richmond's strong run, and was 3 for 3 in GFs which is where the narrative comes from.

An amazing record, but Pendles played more like 15 great finals (including 3 great GFs).

Yes when you keep ignoring that 5 of Pendles best finals were prior to player ratings and coaches votes, of course his "averages" would take a hit.

Why not ignore 5 of Dusty's best 5 finals to level the playing field?

Pendles played many more great finals games than Dusty.

Personal preference if you prefer a bloke who avg 34+ disposals, 5 tackles and 7 clearances or a bloke who avg 18 disposals and 4 goals across 3 finals games The dominant mid or the dominant finisher.

LoL
You don't use the average when talking up peak

Pendles avg 34 disposals, 5 tackles and 6 clearances in the 2011 finals (his peak) where all 3 games better than his 2012 games.

In 2012 Pendles avg finals player ratings was 21.5. if he avg that much in 2012, safe to assume he would have been better in 2011.

Dusty only had 2 finals series we he averaged 20+ player ratings, so Pendles would have matched him (and potentially had 3 if 2010 went his way).

2010 would have been close (3 more big games, but 1 quiet one).

30 disp 2 goals and 7 clearances in QF
24 disp 2 goals, 7 tackles & 5 clearances in PF
29 disp, 11 tackles and 6 clearances in replay
19 disp and 6 tackles in GF


Pendles avg 24 disposals, 5 clearances, 5 tackles and 11 CPs in finals

Pendles in finals - 17 finals wins, 14 great finals games, 743 disposals, 158 tackles, 151 clearances, 328 CPs, 115 I50s and 9 goals

Dusty in finals - 10 finals wins, 8 great finals games, 352 disposals, 31 tackles, 59 clearances, 182 CPs, 75 I50s and 27 goals


Total votes is falling for the popular schtick.

Cripps 2024 brownlow year was 25% better than Dusty in 2017 if running with your how many votes crap.


Nope, simply stating that even when 34, Pendles played great finals where he received coaches votes or was in top4 players on the ground in player ratings.

Pendles has played more great finals games than Dusty did.

So again it is the same argument...does someone prefer a bloke with a higher peak (ie Dusty 2017 / Dusty 3 norms) or the bloke who had more elite seasons and played more great finals games.

Pendles was a Top20, top10 player in the game for much longer than Dusty. And both only had 1 year noted as the best.

AFLCA leaderboard

2010 - Pendles Top20 (12th), Dusty nowhere
2011 - Pendles Top10 (7th), Dusty nowhere
2012 - Pendles Top10 (9th), Dusty nowhere
2013 - Pendles 1st, Dusty Top20 (18th)
2014 - Pendles Top10 (6th), Dusty nowhere
2015 - Pendles Top10 (9th), Dusty Top 20 (15th)
2016 - Pendles Top20 (13th), Dusty Top 10 (3rd)
2017 - Pendles nowhere, Dusty 1st
2018 - Pendles Top20 (15th), Dusty Top 10 (8th)
2019 - Pendles Top20 (14th), Dusty Top 20 (12th)
2020 - Pendles Top20 (13th), Dusty Top 20 (15th)


He has the BnFs - 5 to 2
Pendles has the AAs - 6 to 4

Pendles also has all the career totals
Pendles also has the better avg player ratings, and highest individual game rating

But yes, Dusty single peak season when he was the best was slightly better then when Pendles was the best.

Some people prefer blokes who have a season out of the box...ie Kouta who burn really brightly for an intense peak, others go for the bloke who dominated the competition for more than a decade in Banger Harvey.
Click to expand...

You have got Dusty playing 8 great finals(coaches votes OR in best 4 OG.) He got coaches votes in 9 finals.

2017 all 3 finals
2018 QF
2019 QF & GF
2020 Last 3 finals.

All of those 7 or more coaches votes in best 2 OG according to coaches.

He was the clear highest rated player on the ground in 6 finals, 0.1 behind the highest on one occasion, and 3rd highest on another occasion.

In his 3 Grand Finals he was first, first, first highest rated player on ground, all by very clear margins. He got 43 of 45 available Smith Medal votes. And 28 of 30 available coaches votes.

Set all the fake parameters you like, nobody else is anywhere near that. When you are one of 6-8 key mids in a match, being the 3rd or 4th best mid in the match does not constitute a "great" final. Even being the 2nd best mid in the match by a clear margin is not necessarily a great final. Pendlebury was the highest rated mid in the match in only 1 of the 9 finals you are describing as great. He was not especially close to the highest rated mid in any of the other 8 matches, either by player ratings or coaches votes.

Even if we were to accept these performances as great(I don't) it doesn't make them anywhere near equal to a great performance where the player is clear BOG or very close to BOG by ratings & coaches votes, & where available by Smith Medal votes.

It is a shame we don't have coaches votes or player ratings for SP in 2010-11. But we have Norm Smith votes for 3 games in those years and Pendlebury's best haul of 10 was not as good as Dustyy's worst haul of 13 from his 3 GF's. And Pendlebury's 13 Smith Medal votes from 5 matches is panels of fencing behind Dusty's 43 votes from 3 matches.

As for what Pendlebury would have averaged in 2010-11. In 2011 he had ZERO goals Zero Goal Assists from his 3 finals. You are starting a long way back when you do that. In 2010 he averaged under 10 contested possessions and isn't strong enough with his other stats to make up for it. Have a look at what Dusty averages were in his big 3 finals series. And Petracca in his. Pendlebury's 2010-11 doesn't look within a bull's roar.
 
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Mr Meow said:
Who are your top 10 of the past 20 years, in order, out of interest? Genuinely interested to see where or if Pendles would feature in that.
Click to expand...
Lay it out.

And lay out how it is you arrive at the position.
The top ten I listed was put together by three industry professionals who discussed objectively the top 25 players of the last 25 years giving them a rating out of
20 points How good was their best
10 points Accolades
10points Longevity
All done without bias.

Let’s hear it.
 
Cdog71 said:
Lay it out.

And lay out how it is you arrive at the position.
The top ten I listed was put together by three industry professionals who discussed objectively the top 25 players of the last 25 years giving them a rating out of
20 points How good was their best
10 points Accolades
10points Longevity
All done without bias.

Let’s hear it.
Click to expand...
Can't you think for yourself?

(Also not sure how Buddy is rated ahead of GAJ based on that criteria).
 
Fadge said:
Can't you think for yourself?

(Also not sure how Buddy is rated ahead of GAJ based on that criteria).
Click to expand...
I’ve already put mine down

Sports about winning and you do that by scoring.
There aren’t WR’s for the most consistently above average.
 
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Cdog71 said:
I’ve already put mine down

Sports about winning and you do that by scoring.
There aren’t WR’s for the most consistently above average.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the list that was put together by the 'three industry professionals' that you agree with, or another list?

If sport's about winning/scoring, I expect your top few GOATs would be something like:
1. Lockett
2. Coventry
3. Dunstall
4. Coleman
5. Hudson
6. Ablett Snr
7. McKenna

With the likes of Franklin, Kennedy, Hawkins and J. Riewoldt in your top few from this century.
 
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Cdog71 said:
The best 25 of the last 25 years.

Setting parameters and agreeing on the decision making is the only way it can be discussed objectively.

Maybe you could PM him explain your magic algorithms and can talk about it together
Click to expand...
So you haven't been able to determine it yourself, and instead referenced a journo's article and said 'Yeah, I agree with this'?

How did you leave Josh Kennedy (WCE) out of your top 10 of the last 25 years, if he is comfortably 2nd in average goals behind Buddy and he did it for nearly 300 games, when 'sport is all about winning, and winning is all about scoring'?
 
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Fadge said:
So you haven't been able to determine it yourself, and instead referenced a journo's article and said 'Yeah, I agree with this'?
Click to expand...
You live in a world of delusions.

Crazy to believe the world is round though I haven’t proved the theory myself.

Never change Fadgey, never change
 
Meteoric Rise said:
You have got Dusty playing 8 great finals(coaches votes OR in best 4 OG.) He got coaches votes in 9 finals.

2017 all 3 finals
2018 QF
2019 QF & GF
2020 Last 3 finals.

All of those 7 or more coaches votes in best 2 OG according to coaches.

He was the clear highest rated player on the ground in 6 finals, 0.1 behind the highest on one occasion, and 3rd highest on another occasion.

In his 3 Grand Finals he was first, first, first highest rated player on ground, all by very clear margins. He got 43 of 45 available Smith Medal votes. And 28 of 30 available coaches votes.

Set all the fake parameters you like, nobody else is anywhere near that. When you are one of 6-8 key mids in a match, being the 3rd or 4th best mid in the match does not constitute a "great" final. Even being the 2nd best mid in the match by a clear margin is not necessarily a great final. Pendlebury was the highest rated mid in the match in only 1 of the 9 finals you are describing as great. He was not especially close to the highest rated mid in any of the other 8 matches, either by player ratings or coaches votes.

Even if we were to accept these performances as great(I don't) it doesn't make them anywhere near equal to a great performance where the player is clear BOG or very close to BOG by ratings & coaches votes, & where available by Smith Medal votes.

It is a shame we don't have coaches votes or player ratings for SP in 2010-11. But we have Norm Smith votes for 3 games in those years and Pendlebury's best haul of 10 was not as good as Dustyy's worst haul of 13 from his 3 GF's. And Pendlebury's 13 Smith Medal votes from 5 matches is panels of fencing behind Dusty's 43 votes from 3 matches.

As for what Pendlebury would have averaged in 2010-11. In 2011 he had ZERO goals Zero Goal Assists from his 3 finals. You are starting a long way back when you do that. In 2010 he averaged under 10 contested possessions and isn't strong enough with his other stats to make up for it. Have a look at what Dusty averages were in his big 3 finals series. And Petracca in his. Pendlebury's 2010-11 doesn't look within a bull's roar.
Click to expand...
You are arguing with posters who think Mason Cox and Dan McStay are the best finals players going around.
They won't be convinced, like, ever.
 

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Fadge Mr Meow

All jokes and pissing aside, where do you rank Pendlebury from players of the AFL era? Obviously Collingwood bias would see you rank him higher than others but do you see him as one of those all time greats? Dustin Martin, Gary Ablett, Lance Franklin?

Most probably see him as a rung below, if not two rungs below which is no slight at all. He has been a bloody good player
 
Meteoric Rise said:
2017 24.1 average
2018 16.5 average
2019 18.6 average
2020 26.9 average




Others:

Bontempelli best 18.75
Cripps best 12.66
Heeney 14.66
Gawn 14.5
Neale 20.6
Nick Daycare 10.9
Petracca 23.66
Warner 19.33
Butters 10.1
Newcombe 17.8
Holmes 18.0
J Kelly 16.8
Liberatore 16.5
T Green 17.2
Dangerfield 21.1
Walsh 16.9
T Kelly 15.4
Dunkley 13.2
Jezza Cameron 13.6
B Grundy 19.6
Pendlebury 21.5(2nd best 15.6)
Oliver 19.9
Selwood 24.3
J Kennedy(Swans) 20.6
Swan 15.6(only one series applicable)
Cyril 15.8
S Mitchell 20.7
Cotchin 14.6
Fyfe 17.2
T Greene 23.8
J Macrae 16.8


So from all those players I could think of here are the top 16 rated finals series by average player rating across multiple games(2, 3 or 4)

1. Martin 26.9(4 games)
2. Selwood 24.3(2 games)
3. Martin 24.1(3 games)
4. T Greene 23.8(2 games)
5. Petracca 23.7(3 games)
6. Selwood 21.6(2 games)
7. Pendlebury 21.5(3 games)
8. Dangerfield 21.1(2 games)
9. J Kenney(Swans) 20.6(2 games)
10. S Mitchell 20.7(3 games)
11. Neale 20.6(2 games)
12. Oliver 19.9(3 games)
13. Grundy 19.6(2 games)
14. Warner 19.3(3 games)
15. Bontempelli 18.8(4 games)
16. Martin 18.6(3 games)

The order for players who played 3 or more games in a finals series is:

1. Martin 26.9
2. Martin 24.1
3. Petracca 23.7
4. Pendlebury 21.5
5. S Mitchell 20.7
6. Oliver 19.9
7. Warner 19.3
8. Bontempelli 18.8
9. Martin 18.6
10. Holmes 18.0

We can see Pendlebury's 2012 sits pretty high in this table, but it is a fair way off the pace of the top 3 full finals series based on average player ratings. I doubt Pendlebury's average player ratings in the 2010 & 11 finals series would be higher than his 2012 average. You can see that by looking at his stats. There is absolutely nothing in those 2 series to suggest he would have challenged the top 3 rated finals series recorded by Martin, Martin & Petracca.
Click to expand...
Just highlighting Martin's alleged 26.9 Player Rating average in finals in 2020 comprises the following games:
Qualifying Final v. Brisbane - 12.1 Player Rating
Semi Final v. St. Kilda - 26.4 Player Rating
Preliminary Final v. Port Adelaide - 21.8 Player Rating
Grand Final v. Geelong - 25.7 Player Rating

So his average was actually higher than his best performance (according to Player Ratings) in the finals series.

I'm sure it was just an oversight that MR failed to point this out.
 
Yoda_ said:
Fadge Mr Meow

All jokes and pissing aside, where do you rank Pendlebury from players of the AFL era? Obviously Collingwood bias would see you rank him higher than others but do you see him as one of those all time greats? Dustin Martin, Gary Ablett, Lance Franklin?

Most probably see him as a rung below, if not two rungs below which is no slight at all. He has been a bloody good player
Click to expand...
1. Dustin Martin does not belong in the rung with GAJ and Buddy.
2. I've previously shared my thoughts on where I rank Pendlebury, and provided rationale for said ranking.
 
Fadge said:
1. Dustin Martin does not belong in the rung with GAJ and Buddy.
2. I've previously shared my thoughts on where I rank Pendlebury, and provided rationale for said ranking.
Click to expand...

1. each to there own
2.im not going through all 285 (as of 9:36am, 12/01/25) of your posts to try and work out where you rank him

may I ask again, put up or ...
 
Meteoric Rise said:
You have got Dusty playing 8 great finals(coaches votes OR in best 4 OG.) He got coaches votes in 9 finals.

2017 all 3 finals
2018 QF
2019 QF & GF
2020 Last 3 finals.
Click to expand...
Fair play, wheelorating match stats had left 2017 blank for finals.

So give Dusty a extra great final - he is up to 9.

Still well behind Pendles who has 14-15 great finals.
Meteoric Rise said:
When you are one of 6-8 key mids in a match, being the 3rd or 4th best mid in the match does not constitute a "great" final. Even being the 2nd best mid in the match by a clear margin is not necessarily a great final.
Click to expand...
What weird logic. My criteria was of you are in the best 4 players per player ratings it is a great game. And because I think there are flaws in ratings, a cross reference to coaches votes helps there.

If you are given the 2nd most coaches votes, they think you are 2nd best player on the ground, then that has been a great game.

As I don't fully agree with player ratings, I instead deliberately went to have a great game the coaches have to give you votes or be in top 4 players for ratings.

As that helps weasel out anomalies with player ratings like B.Hill 2023 GF where he was awarded all five three-votes from the Norm Smith judging panel in an unanimous verdict and also received maximum coaches votes - but player ratings gave him just 12.9.

If you are too fixated with ratings you then are saying that B.Hill didn't have a great GF (absolute nonsense!!).

And kiddy Coleman who was 2nd in norm and coaches votes also had an even lower player ratings of just 11.1.

Player ratings are useful as they at least try and get an impact rating based on their own algorithms,.so better than dry descriptive stats, but they are all flawed.
Meteoric Rise said:
Pendlebury was the highest rated mid in the match in only 1 of the 9 finals you are describing as great. He was not especially close to the highest rated mid in any of the other 8 matches, either by player ratings or coaches votes.
Click to expand...
This is your same moronic rant that attempts to slag off Pendles just because votes and ratings weren't around when he played his best finals football.

No coaches votes in 2010-2012

But yes when Pendles was well down from peak Pendles era (2010-16) was Pendles peak football.

He was still having great finals as recognized by coaches in 2019, 2022 and 2023 finals series when he was well into his 30s.

You are comparing peak Dusty with past his peak Pendles, and Pendles is in the argument 🤣🤣
Meteoric Rise said:
It is a shame we don't have coaches votes or player ratings for SP in 2010-11.
Click to expand...
Why don't we just make em up like you do for Dusty in 2020?
Meteoric Rise said:
As for what Pendlebury would have averaged in 2010-11.
Click to expand...
Let's make it up at...based on a pro-rata using his 24.7 from 2012 final as basis...that passes the MR sniff test to just make up his own numbers.

The 24.7 rating was from a game where he had

29 disposals, 13 CPs, 6 clearances, 7 i50s, 1 goal and 0 goal assists

Let's just check the 2010 QF to start

2010 QF

30 disposals, 13 CPs, 6 clearances, 7 i50s, 2 goal and 1 goal assists

2010 clearly better (extra goal and assist) so that can be a 29.7 player rating...score board impact extremely important and all that 👍

Meteoric Rise said:
.Have a look at what Dusty averages were in his big 3 finals series. And Petracca in his. Pendlebury's 2010-11 doesn't look within a bull's roar.
Click to expand...
Much better to look at Pendles own 2012 when he avg a 21.5 player ratings for the finals.

2012 Pendles who was Pies best player of the finals for his 21.5 player ratings avg

30 disp, 16 CPs 8 clearances, 5 i50s, 1 goal/GA

2011 Pendles who was also Pies best player of the finals would have a player rating of XX avg

34.3 disp, 14.3 CPs, 6.3 clearances, 6 i50s, 0 goal/GA

The bull is roaring.

And then funny thing is that you already acknowledge that in H&A season Pendles absolutely brains Dusty.

Now you are helping also prove the point that Pendles finals performances are better than all the other mids too - Bont, Judd, GAJ etc.

Pendles may be the 2nd best finals player after Dusty - Dusty pips him for the real peak games. But Pendles has the volume of great games and if his 2012 finals is the 4th best ever, he would likely have 3 of the best 10 😍

Pendles has total volume
Pendles has isolated peak game
Pendles has MVP seasons
Pendles has longevity of peak
And thanks to MR, have confirmed Pendles finals record is perhaps only 2nd to Dusty

Doing great work MR 👍
 
Yoda_ said:
Fadge Mr Meow

All jokes and pissing aside, where do you rank Pendlebury from players of the AFL era? Obviously Collingwood bias would see you rank him higher than others but do you see him as one of those all time greats? Dustin Martin, Gary Ablett, Lance Franklin?

Most probably see him as a rung below, if not two rungs below which is no slight at all. He has been a bloody good player
Click to expand...
Hard to compare mids to forwards, so exclude Buddy.

But for mids, only GAJ ahead. Pendles overall output and impact is miles ahead of Dusty.
 
doppleganger said:
And thanks to MR, have confirmed Pendles finals record is perhaps only 2nd to Dusty
Click to expand...
Let's be honest and transparent though, unlike some other unnamed posters in this thread.

The absence of Player Ratings Data prior to 2012, and Coaches votes prior to 2016, not only means the absence of data for Pendlebury in his two best finals campaigns (2010 and 2011), but also for other great players such as GAJ and Chris Judd (as recent examples).

The table below provides data from GAJ's 4 x finals campaigns between 2007 and 2010, together with Judd's finals campaigns in 2005/06:
1736636876926.png

I suspect a few of those campaigns would make an appearance in the top 10 finals campaigns of the 21st Century...

But also of note is that like Pendlebury (and unlike Martin), both GAJ and Judd were able to perform at a high level in losing finals games.

Is it really that astounding that great players are great finals players?
 

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doppleganger said:
But for mids, only GAJ ahead. Pendles overall output and impact is miles ahead of Dusty.
Click to expand...
Impact…hmmm
Impact to what end?

It’s just a stupid merry go-round.

Just outve curiosity
Has Pendlebury had a better career than Mathews?
Explain it a little if you dont mind.
 

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