SEASON 2019

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And to add, Bunk, you on the money with scenario, done some scratching have we? Nice!
I hadn’t heard about Morinton or Mt Eliza but I can tell you, Edi Asp were looking forward to playing Berwick, Cranny and Narre.
Another excuse was rivalaries, I loved umpiring Sorrento vs Rye rivalaries when Sorrento wins by 20 goals!

Remember common sense isn’t that common anymore....Yarra Valley and Gippsland Leagues have Bourne the brunt of that lately.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Is it a grudge or do they just not want to travel and play further away?

I recall many of them were also against swapping the Nepean/Peninsula conferences for Divisions 1 and 2, because they didn’t want to travel north.

Surely they should look at starting their own league. Sorrento, Rye, Rosebud, Dromana, Red Hill, Crib Point, Hastings, Tyabb, Somerville, Mt Eliza, Mornington.

If that’s what they want. It’s 11 clubs.

Then you have Frankston Bombers, Pearcedale, YCW, Karingal, Langwarrin, Devon Meadows, Cranbourne, Pines, Seaford, Bonbeach, Chelsea, Edi Aspi, Doveton, Narre, Berwick, Beacy, Officer and Pakenham. 18 clubs, 2 divisions.
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Sensible and logical.
AFLV will kill that idea stone dead. But it is a better option than the status quo.
 
MortlockWatcher said:
Sensible and logical.
AFLV will kill that idea stone dead. But it is a better option than the status quo.
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It requires on 1/4 (25%) of MPNFL clubs to say “no” then no other club/s can be admitted to MPNFL. Nothing AFLVIC can do, well they can but the Sorrento President Barry Balmer will tie them up in court for years with injunctions and other such legal proceedings.
From what I heard is that AFLSE & AFLVIC were for the combining of SEFNL & MPNFL.. Some at AFLSE we’re just bewildered by the MPNFL clubs decisions but AFLSE had no leg to stand on to make any forced move.
 

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gelder01 said:
Bunk, travel is an excuse, I will tell them a little secret, football watchers will go see a decent game of footy, players will generally be excited to play a decent game of competitive footy.
Before umpiring, I would follow Narre to Frankston, Chelsea, Seaford, Langwarrin on a Saturday then Sunday it was Werribee, Williamstown, Port Melb, Sandy, Frankston, Coburg, Presto, Box Hill.
Travel is just a convenient excuse. MPNFL has two divisions within two two division, in fact make that 3 divisions within division two. Just look at their results and ladders. With the added SEFNL clubs they would have 3 evenly matched divisions. Maybe two divisions in the 3rd. Division as Pearcedale and Crib Point are non performers atm.

Players will be leaving Berwick and Narre next year
to play against better opposition week in week out. This will even the OuterEast Comp a little bit, by weakening clubs.
Of course I know, you can’t get blood out of a stone or that the horse has bolted ect, but that’s my view.
It looks like we have to live with the fact that Yarr Valley board thought that they had a better level of footy and could help grow their comp and make it. Bigger and better to compete against rival leagues.
This is now close to crisis time for ALL clubs in the Premier Division, Narre is committed to their Netballers and will not be leaving for Eastern or Southern.
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gelder01 said:
And to add, Bunk, you on the money with scenario, done some scratching have we? Nice!
I hadn’t heard about Morinton or Mt Eliza but I can tell you, Edi Asp were looking forward to playing Berwick, Cranny and Narre.
Another excuse was rivalaries, I loved umpiring Sorrento vs Rye rivalaries when Sorrento wins by 20 goals!

Remember common sense isn’t that common anymore....Yarra Valley and Gippsland Leagues have Bourne the brunt of that lately.
Click to expand...

No scratching, beyond just talking to normal people at footy clubs.

Personally don’t think you can weaken the likes of Narre, huge suburbs which could probably hold two or three senior clubs. It’s a production line, players leave there’ll be more to come. The south east has been booming for 20-30 years, the football situation needs a permanent solution.

I think the best idea is one big SFL (SFL / northern MPNFL / old SEFL) because it works geographically and the more clubs there are, the more divisions and hence the more clubs playing at a competitive level with other similar sized and resourced clubs. Leagues like the VAFA and EFL have thrived because of size, it provides competitiveness for more (not that they don’t have some problems too, but all in all they’re successful).

But the MPNFL / SEFL clubs seem wedded to the idea that they’re “country” clubs (theyre absolutely not) and hence are committed to having Saturday netball etc. I wouldn’t have thought a similar netball setup to what the metro leagues now have would be a problem, but I wouldn’t know, it’s their call. So maybe a MPNFL Northern / SEFL league is the best option. They can still call it a country league even though it isn’t and have netball etc.

Re the Peninsula clubs, I don’t think the travel is a total excuse, it’s not such a big deal for senior football but they all seemed more concerned about colts etc. At the end of the day their reasons are their own, they can do what they like. I think they’d be better served forming their own league, I know their are people who favour that but I don’t for one second claim it’s all clubs - I haven’t spoken to most of them.
 
On a related note, are Berwick Springs still on target to field open age teams next year? Are they aiming to draw on players from other existing clubs?
 
From the mouth of an AFLSE person to an Umpiring group was "Ëxpect more changes through this Area, up NORTH and EAST within the next few years!" (NOV2018)

Whether he / she means boundaries or leagues, it wasn't conveyed.

The above is from one of my earlier posts, you could be on the money Bunk, we will wait and see, what you put forward makes sense to me. Nobody likes change, but if you don’t change with the times before you know it you may have withered and died.
 
Interesting to hear Steve O'Brien (Cranbourne Coach) on Gameface mention:
"I'm not sure by introducing new clubs into an area is the smart way to go. Cranbourne itself is an old area, and to start up a new club in the Under 18s (Berwick Springs) this year that's 4km away from us, that's a real challenge for us. It was one of our feeder clubs, which is now gone, so we have basically gone from three feeder clubs to just our own junior footy club, which I've said is in the old area of Cranbourne, which is a very old area. So it's a real challenge."

It is this sort mindset that will need to adjust for the Outer East to work. 'Just our own junior footy club' is the standard reality in the valley. It is hard work for every club to raise a team each year in that age bracket. Clubs such as Upwey, Belgrave, South Belgrave, Monbulk, Silvan, Emerald and Olinda are all about 4km from each other and have their own senior clubs with a much smaller population. That's 7 senior clubs - 5 with u18s - within the same populous district as Cranbourne has. It may require the SEFL committees to work harder at junior development rather than just cherry picking from 3 feeder clubs due to a booming population.

Narre Warren still have three feeder clubs - Narre Warren Junior Football Club, Narre North Foxes and Fountain Gate JFC. I don't think any of the Yarra Ranges clubs could boast multiple feeder clubs. I wonder how Narre or Beaconsfield would go if they were in the Valley where Powelltown, Yarra Junction and Warburton-Millgrove combined rely on just one junior feeder club - Wesburn - for their players. Yarra Junction have started up some U9s and U10s in recent times but it is a big leap from there to U18s.

Not sure of the age demographic of this 'very old' area of Cranbourne (there are 15 primary schools in Cranbourne which seems high for an old population) but apart from a few minor subdivisions in Wandin, Healesville and Woori Yallock there has been little development in the Yarra Valley for the best part of 100 years so it could possibly pass as an old area as well, certainly much older than Cranbourne's boom development since the 1960s. Cranbourne have been affected by a change from U19s to U18s and the loss of players to nearby SFL and MPNFL clubs although they still have a stronger base to work from than Yarra Ranges clubs.

The proposed Berwick Springs senior club along with Narre North Foxes possibly also becoming a senior club is the sort of dilution this competition will require to allow all clubs to get towards a level playing field. Berwick (who competed in the VFA in the early 1980s) are apparently looking to the EFL, which may well be a successful move. Noble Park and Balwyn (and Heidelberg unsuccessfully) were also strong clubs wanting to compete in the stronger competition of the EFL top division and transferred. It may be preferable to lose top clubs wanting to compete at a higher level than bottom clubs seeing leaving as necessary to survive. It would be a weaker competition strengthwise overall but a stronger competition if the clubs are more evenly matched.

In the 1960s the loss of clubs from the Mountain District Association and Yarra Valley League to the Eastern FL - Wandin, Olinda, Yarra Glen, Silvan, Ferntree Gully etc - due largely to competitiveness in a divisional league resulted in the formation of the YVMDFL and divisional football in this region. This has worked well due to the relative evenness that ensued.

I am hopeful that this new restructure and merger with the creation of Outer East does work out in the long run but the big SEFL clubs will have to take some hits with dilution of player strength to get towards a parity of club strengths. We wouldn't want to see a competition like the Scottish Premier League where the only interest is whether Rangers or Celtic will win the title (Aberdeen in 1984-85 the last to break the streak). If this is allowed to happen then weaker clubs will look to the EFL, SFL and elsewhere. This was the reason that SEFL had to join the Yarra Ranges in the first place as Tooradin leaving left just 7 clubs, and others contemplating the same exit, and a competition that was about to fall over.
 
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Good post!
As an afterthought: maybe the dilemma of these stronger clubs would give consideration for another state level of football - a type of old VFA under the VFL. Elite clubs could then be accommodated (to satisfy their egos/ambitions and local leagues could gain respite from over-powerful clubs. This may also allow a balanced transition for talented players through to a top level.
Thoughts anyone?
 
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Monniehawk said:
Good post!
As an afterthought: maybe the dilemma of these stronger clubs would give consideration for another state level of football - a type of old VFA under the VFL. Elite clubs could then be accommodated (to satisfy their egos/ambitions and local leagues could gain respite from over-powerful clubs. This may also allow a balanced transition for talented players through to a top level.
Thoughts anyone?
Click to expand...

It’s a good idea but I can’t see players embracing it myself. I know of so many blokes happy to play at levels below their ability because it’s easy. You see it all the time in multi division comps. Club wins promotion but their guns don’t want to play the higher division and jump ship
 
Monniehawk said:
Good post!
As an afterthought: maybe the dilemma of these stronger clubs would give consideration for another state level of football - a type of old VFA under the VFL. Elite clubs could then be accommodated (to satisfy their egos/ambitions and local leagues could gain respite from over-powerful clubs. This may also allow a balanced transition for talented players through to a top level.
Thoughts anyone?
Click to expand...

If it were to happen, to be sustainable it’s have to include promotion and relegation with local football comps, otherwise it’ll just wither and die like the VFA. The VFA petered out because it’s clubs did, suburbs and clubs rise and fall with their populations. Without a promotion / relegation process to regenerate with new clubs, the whole thing just dies a slow death.

In any case it’d be a metro comp and not really a concern here as all these clubs are “country” clubs, just ask em.
 
I still think the irony exists in that the SEFNL clubs wanted to go somewhere because of divisional football but before long they will all form the same division!!
 
aussie80s said:
Interesting to hear Steve O'Brien (Cranbourne Coach) on Gameface mention:
"I'm not sure by introducing new clubs into an area is the smart way to go. Cranbourne itself is an old area, and to start up a new club in the Under 18s (Berwick Springs) this year that's 4km away from us, that's a real challenge for us. It was one of our feeder clubs, which is now gone, so we have basically gone from three feeder clubs to just our own junior footy club, which I've said is in the old area of Cranbourne, which is a very old area. So it's a real challenge."

It is this sort mindset that will need to adjust for the Outer East to work. 'Just our own junior footy club' is the standard reality in the valley. It is hard work for every club to raise a team each year in that age bracket. Clubs such as Upwey, Belgrave, South Belgrave, Monbulk, Silvan, Emerald and Olinda are all about 4km from each other and have their own senior clubs with a much smaller population. That's 7 senior clubs - 5 with u18s - within the same populous district as Cranbourne has. It may require the SEFL committees to work harder at junior development rather than just cherry picking from 3 feeder clubs due to a booming population.

Narre Warren still have three feeder clubs - Narre Warren Junior Football Club, Narre North Foxes and Fountain Gate JFC. I don't think any of the Yarra Ranges clubs could boast multiple feeder clubs. I wonder how Narre or Beaconsfield would go if they were in the Valley where Powelltown, Yarra Junction and Warburton-Millgrove combined rely on just one junior feeder club - Wesburn - for their players. Yarra Junction have started up some U9s and U10s in recent times but it is a big leap from there to U18s.

Not sure of the age demographic of this 'very old' area of Cranbourne (there are 15 primary schools in Cranbourne which seems high for an old population) but apart from a few minor subdivisions in Wandin, Healesville and Woori Yallock there has been little development in the Yarra Valley for the best part of 100 years so it could possibly pass as an old area as well, certainly much older than Cranbourne's boom development since the 1960s. Cranbourne have been affected by a change from U19s to U18s and the loss of players to nearby SFL and MPNFL clubs although they still have a stronger base to work from than Yarra Ranges clubs.

The proposed Berwick Springs senior club along with Narre North Foxes possibly also becoming a senior club is the sort of dilution this competition will require to allow all clubs to get towards a level playing field. Berwick (who competed in the VFA in the early 1980s) are apparently looking to the EFL, which may well be a successful move. Noble Park and Balwyn (and Heidelberg unsuccessfully) were also strong clubs wanting to compete in the stronger competition of the EFL top division and transferred. It may be preferable to lose top clubs wanting to compete at a higher level than bottom clubs seeing leaving as necessary to survive. It would be a weaker competition strengthwise overall but a stronger competition if the clubs are more evenly matched.

In the 1960s the loss of clubs from the Mountain District Association and Yarra Valley League to the Eastern FL - Wandin, Olinda, Yarra Glen, Silvan, Ferntree Gully etc - due largely to competitiveness in a divisional league resulted in the formation of the YVMDFL and divisional football in this region. This has worked well due to the relative evenness that ensued.

I am hopeful that this new restructure and merger with the creation of Outer East does work out in the long run but the big SEFL clubs will have to take some hits with dilution of player strength to get towards a parity of club strengths. We wouldn't want to see a competition like the Scottish Premier League where the only interest is whether Rangers or Celtic will win the title (Aberdeen in 1984-85 the last to break the streak). If this is allowed to happen then weaker clubs will look to the EFL, SFL and elsewhere. This was the reason that SEFL had to join the Yarra Ranges in the first place as Tooradin leaving left just 7 clubs, and others contemplating the same exit, and a competition that was about to fall over.
Click to expand...

Nothing will even up the ledger unless some massive estates go up on Olinda, Woori, Wandin.

Even another side in the Cranbourne area doesn’t make any difference.

EFL, NFNL there are areas where 3 or 4 clubs are within 2 minute drive.

The whole setup is just moronic and truely ruined a great league.

Olinda and Wandin were powerhouses who are now copping 100 point loses. Good luck to these clubs attracting players up the mountains now.
 

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Tangleswalker said:
Did the GFL just undergo an unwarranted merger and transform from one of the most even football leagues in Vic to a non competitive mess? Did I miss that?
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The YVMDFL was not one of the most even leagues in VIC.
In the past 30 years 17 Div 1 premierships have been won between 3 clubs, and those same 3 clubs have won 18/30 reserves premierships and 19/30 Under 18/19 flags.
So 16% of clubs have won 60% of available Div 1 flags since ‘89 and less than half of clubs have a Div 1 flag at any level.
The numbers are even worse in the past decade with the aforementioned 3 clubs winning 8/10 senior flags, 5/10 ressies flags and 4/10 unders flags.
Not to mention that prior to the amalgamation you’d be guaranteed a blowout every week anyway. The only change has been the clubs on the receiving end.
 
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Tangleswalker said:
Did the GFL just undergo an unwarranted merger and transform from one of the most even football leagues in Vic to a non competitive mess? Did I miss that?
Click to expand...
Aeglos said:
The YVMDFL was not one of the most even leagues in VIC.
In the past 30 years 17 Div 1 premierships have been won between 3 clubs, and those same 3 clubs have won 18/30 reserves premierships and 19/30 Under 18/19 flags.
So 16% of clubs have won 60% of available Div 1 flags since ‘89 and less than half of clubs have a Div 1 flag at any level.
The numbers are even worse in the past decade with the aforementioned 3 clubs winning 8/10 senior flags, 5/10 ressies flags and 4/10 unders flags.
Not to mention that prior to the amalgamation you’d be guaranteed a blowout every week anyway. The only change has been the clubs on the receiving end.
Click to expand...

Using the last 30 years as an example is apples and oranges, you have to view the league BsC and AsC (before salary cap and after salary cap), before cap it was who spends wins. Since the introduction of the salary cap there have been 4 different premiers in 5 years in division 1, as well as a healthy mix of reserves and 18’s premiers also. The competition outside of probably Warburton and Belgrave have been more than competitive in that time. Just last year 7 of the 10 first division teams were looking at finals up until the conclusion of round 16. Division one as it stands this year has worked, no one can deny that, the argument that can’t be denied is that the presence of the big 4 in premier is not at all healthy and was never warranted. These 4 are simply too big for the standard they have been dropped into. The equalisation measures thrown up in here will take years to take shape, some clubs won’t survive if forced to stay in the current “premier” set uo due to losing players in droves, and those blokes aren’t just coming back. You can’t just manufacture blokes to your footy club and there are a plethora of options at the doorstep for fringe and twos blokes to walk straight into, to avoid the inevitable smashing’s they are routinely getting now.
The league either grossly over estimated the standard of top level YV footy or just didn’t care and did what they wanted regardless.
Either way I’m yet to hear a relevant or substantial reason as to why the “expansion” needed to happen in the first place.
 
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MortlockWatcher said:
Lara and North Shore have sat on or very near to the bottom two rungs of the ladder for a number of years now, with Geelong West usually between 8-10.
The others have been pretty even in terms of competitiveness.
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As I understand it, Football Geelong has been trying to introduce promotion and relegation between the GFL, BFL and GDFL (and perhaps eventually the CDFL too) for years. The first step of which is to reduce the GFL (the nominal first division) from 12 to 10 teams to make it more competitive.

The clubs just keep fighting it. It’s been due to be introduced every year for about 4 years I believe.
 
Got to really feel for Cranbourne only down to 1 junior feeder club. Hopefully they’ll be able to navigate those tough waters.

If anyone remembers the clubs wanted out of the SEFL due to the top being much stronger than a bottom 4.

This whole new promotion scheme is laughable. Sounds like it’ll end up being the SEFL again.

Any Yarra leagues would be crazy to go up. They would get absolutely killed.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
The EFL have ambitions for their five divisions (currently 5 clubs short of 50) and will be keeping a very close eye on things. Belgrave, UT, OFC, Monbulk and Mt Evelyn the closest geographically.
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With eastlink any of the SEFL could have joined no issues at all. Netball I believe was a big part of the decision not to
 
Must be a slow news day at the league. Going through my Facebook feed and found an article from the league about a retiring player.

Can’t remember the league doing this to any other recent retired players. Ones who have a resume 20 times better than the one I read.
 
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