Unofficial Preview SEASON 2025 - Best 22, Game Plan, Personnel

[Kbroome]

I'll get a lot of hate for this and probably rightfully so but this is the team i would like to see start Rd1. The only problem is that i wanted to see Datolli get into the 22 but couldn't find a way to drop 1 of Lloyd Roberts or Florent. Lloyd was the obvious choice before his immense finals run.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I'll get a lot of hate for this and probably rightfully so but this is the team i would like to see start Rd1. The only problem is that i wanted to see Datolli get into the 22 but couldn't find a way to drop 1 of Lloyd Roberts or Florent. Lloyd was the obvious choice before his immense finals run.

View attachment 2175670

Disagree but certainly no hate. My post speaks to the disagreement, no need to go point by point.

 

[BloodySwan]

With Cox coming in next season I have zero expectations now. Make finals, but there will be some changes

 

[caesar88]

In light of today's news, I think there would be a mixture of angst and hope among some Swans players.

All coaches have favourites. That is just a part of footy and it is folly to think otherwise. A change in our coaching regime could mean a change in some players' standings, for better or worse. One coach may see things and assess an individual player's strengths & weaknesses completely different to another, even if they shared a coaches box.

It's gonna be fascinating to see if any favourites become fringe players, and any fringe players become favourites.

 

[Kbroome]

In light of today's news, I think there would be a mixture of angst and hope among some Swans players.

All coaches have favourites. That is just a part of footy and it is folly to think otherwise. A change in our coaching regime could mean a change in some players' standings, for better or worse. One coach may see things and assess an individual player's strengths & weaknesses completely different to another, even if they shared a coaches box.

It's gonna be fascinating to see if any favourites become fringe players, and any fringe players become favourites.

Hope is 2 KPFs and Gussy into best 22, angst is more and more outside flankers

 

[caesar88]

Hope is 2 KPFs and Gussy into best 22, angst is more and more outside flankers

Omg imagine if Dean Cox was the main driver of the flanker influx all along. I'll be Jack Nicholson in the Shining within six months

 

[Bloods86]

Omg imagine if Dean Cox was the main driver of the flanker influx all along. I'll be Jack Nicholson in the Shining within six months

Cox throws it onto the list, one last roll of the Bice!

 

[strauchanie59]

Incredible opportunity now for these 1st-4th year players to make their mark in early pre-season in front of a new coach and with most of the senior players still away.

 

[hairy biker]

Ben Paton your time has come;



Seriously though if he can get back to his pre broken leg form he'd be an excellent inclusion.

Harry Cunningham had a fine season, but when opposition clubs had two smalls or a small and a 'small medium' I thought we struggled.

Rampe, Roberts or Florent generally weren't the answer.
Fox played more fwd than I would have liked, but even down back I thought he was more often than not down on say his excellent 2022 defensive form.

Jordon was our under the radar selection last year, I'm hopeful Ben may follow suit this year.

 

[mcs095]

Incredible opportunity now for these 1st-4th year players to make their mark in early pre-season in front of a new coach and with most of the senior players still away.

Yep. I would like to think Cox's key message to all players is effectively 'all magnets are off the board, prove to me why you should be part of the team Rd 1'. I hope one of the first things big boy can achieve is putting a rocket up everyone, making it clear no-one is a walk up starter.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Ben Paton your time has come;

View attachment 2175833

Seriously though if he can get back to his pre broken leg form he'd be an excellent inclusion.

Harry Cunningham had a fine season, but when opposition clubs had two smalls or a small and a 'small medium' I thought we struggled.

Rampe, Roberts or Florent generally weren't the answer.
Fox played more fwd than I would have liked, but even down back I thought he was more often than not down on say his excellent 2013 defensive form.

Jordon was our under the radar selection last year, I'm hopeful Ben may follow suit this year.

I like to think positively about how we might best use our recruits and the players who haven't seen much seniors time.
Green getting a good share of VFL ruck duty
Edwards and Snell getting a good share of VFL KPD duty with Andrew getting relief and third tall. Francis playing intercept.
Bice playing the Rampe role in VFL.
Maybe Mitchell plays in defence or maybe inside mid or HHF with Bowman.
Maybe Corey spends time in the forward pocket.
I hope Cleary plays VFL working on his inside mid chops rather than playing seniors as a small forward.
I hope Dattoli plays small forward in seniors.

 

[mcs095]

Ben Paton your time has come;

View attachment 2175833

Seriously though if he can get back to his pre broken leg form he'd be an excellent inclusion.

Harry Cunningham had a fine season, but when opposition clubs had two smalls or a small and a 'small medium' I thought we struggled.

Rampe, Roberts or Florent generally weren't the answer.
Fox played more fwd than I would have liked, but even down back I thought he was more often than not down on say his excellent 2013 defensive form.

Jordon was our under the radar selection last year, I'm hopeful Ben may follow suit this year.

It might take a couple of seasons to really come to fruition, but the one thing I like with our off season recruits is there clearly has been a call to try and diversify the list somewhat to mitigate risks - Paton is definitely a calculated punt, but as you've outlined there, one with rationale to it. Like Bice is a clear punt to find a ready made replacement for Rampe (or at least broadly similar). Like our two forward selections were clearly about providing other options outside of playing three up front.

Its fine to question whether we needed to be more radical in the off season, and maybe trade a big name or two to upgrade our overall list through a big name recruit or similar. But equally - I think the longer game that we've played is not unreasonable either.

Only time will tell.

 

[Crust]

Gotta say I was viewing next year with some trepidation. We could play really well but there would be that nagging doubt that even if we get to the GF we won't turn up.
With Horse out and Cox in, I feel much more optimistic.

 

[Callipygian]

I think that there will be a change of game plan with Cox. And I'm basing this opinion in substantial part on our draft. My thinking is that by the time of the draft the club and Cox knew that Horse was gone and Cox would be the new head coach. They (and Horse) gave Cox the opportunity to have input with the recruiters and list managers instead of Horse (just as happened for Horse with the 2009 draft). The second point is that in his final post-draft interview, Chris Keane made it plain that the club's emphasis with the first two selections was to change our profile in the front half of the ground and add power and SPEED. He particularly emphasised the importance of speed.

Now this could just have been the recruiters own analysis of game trends etc except I think that when it comes to game trends they defer to the coaches. They evaluate, analyse and describe talent but they are directed towards the types of players that should be picked/that the club wants. And my deduction is that Cox has indicated for his game plan he wants to have more emphasis on speed in the front half (which is unsurprising after the premierships by the Tigers and Lions in recent years).

Could this mean what we have been mooting - one fewer tall forward selected? Time will tell.

 

[caesar88]

I think that there will be a change of game plan with Cox. And I'm basing this opinion in substantial part on our draft. My thinking is that by the time of the draft the club and Cox knew that Horse was gone and Cox would be the new head coach. They (and Horse) gave Cox the opportunity to have input with the recruiters and list managers instead of Horse (just as happened for Horse with the 2009 draft). The second point is that in his final post-draft interview, Chris Keane made it plain that the club's emphasis with the first two selections was to change our profile in the front half of the ground and add power and SPEED. He particularly emphasised the importance of speed.

Now this could just have been the recruiters own analysis of game trends etc except I think that when it comes to game trends they defer to the coaches. They evaluate, analyse and describe talent but they are directed towards the types of players that should be picked/that the club wants. And my deduction is that Cox has indicated for his game plan he wants to have more emphasis on speed in the front half (which is unsurprising after the premierships by the Tigers and Lions in recent years).

Could this mean what we have been mooting - one fewer tall forward selected? Time will tell.

I like the emphasis on speed in the front half but I still worry we will lack pressure and hardness in the front half. To me that feels like a greater issue than the need for speed, of which we already have plenty of on the list and just doubled down on it in the recent draft.

 

[SSwans2011]

I think Chad Warner

1

Chad Warner

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

4star

CL

0.0

1star

and the rumours surrounding him will be an interesting challenge for Cox first up.

I hope he's brave enough to put that to the side and move Warner out of the midfield, even if it risks increasing the appeal of moving west for Warner.

Of course, that's assuming that Cox and the selection committee have any plans to do that next year, but moving him forward and giving the likes of Mills/Sheldrick/Cleary more time in the midfield ticks so many boxes for mine.

Strengthens us at the contest ️
More speed and x-factor forward of the football ️
More defensive accountability ️
Maximises the relevant players' attributes ️

IMO Warner's best games this year were off the back of second half bursts from him. He hasn't really proven himself as someone that can dominate for four quarters, and that's fine - he doesn't have to. A move to the forward line and then rotating him through the midfield in the second half seems like the perfect way to get the best out of him.

 

[Callipygian]

I missed the presser with Horse and Cox but I just read https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/1698356/key-quotes-john-longmire-dean-cox-andrew-pridham and there was a quote that I noticed and which reinforces my reasoning process above:

“I think one thing the footy club has always done is try and develop the people that are within it… We've had constant dialogue with the footy club and with John all the way through it. The opportunity that I was presented certainly towards the end of last year to be able to do the off-season, sit with John and go through the recruiting phase, draft, staff hiring process of getting a program ready and then the ability to be able to do it again this off-season. It's a testament to John to allow that to happen, to promote and help his people.”

From this it seems that he was already having some (limited) input to the recruitment process 12 months ago (consistent with Horse saying he has been planning to leave the club end of 2024 or 2025 since 18 months ago).

 

[Kbroome]

I like the emphasis on speed in the front half but I still worry we will lack pressure and hardness in the front half. To me that feels like a greater issue than the need for speed, of which we already have plenty of on the list and just doubled down on it in the recent draft.

Well i think its in reference to the probable change of Bowman/Warner in for Amartey and Dattoli in for Parker that would definitely add speed and pressure.

 

[SSwans2011]

I like the emphasis on speed in the front half but I still worry we will lack pressure and hardness in the front half. To me that feels like a greater issue than the need for speed, of which we already have plenty of on the list and just doubled down on it in the recent draft.

To be fair, they sort of go hand-in-hand in the forward half. Ideally speed is coupled with manic tackling pressure, but speed brings chaos, chaos brings pressure, pressure brings mistakes, and mistakes bring tackles and turnovers.

 

[caesar88]

To be fair, they sort of go hand-in-hand in the forward half. Ideally speed is coupled with manic tackling pressure, but speed brings chaos, chaos brings pressure, pressure brings mistakes, and mistakes bring tackles and turnovers.

Ideally, yes, but as we've found out the hard way, that is not always the case. For example what opposition defender is going to be worried about Tom Papley or Will Hayward without the ball? Both quick as lightning but how often are they ever any sort of a physical presence inside 50? (To Hayward's credit, he is good at rundown tackles from behind.)

You almost need someone who will play like a midfielder, in terms of crashing in and attacking everything, but in the forward line. I think that's why Cleary seemed like a breath of fresh air late in the season, even if he was the size of a button and we only got a tiny sample of what he could do.

 

[SSwans2011]

Ideally, yes, but as we've found out the hard way, that is not always the case. For example what opposition defender is going to be worried about Tom Papley or Will Hayward without the ball? Both quick as lightning but how often are they ever any sort of a physical presence inside 50? (To Hayward's credit, he is good at rundown tackles from behind.)

You almost need someone who will play like a midfielder, in terms of crashing in and attacking everything, but in the forward line. I think that's why Cleary seemed like a breath of fresh air late in the season, even if he was the size of a button and we only got a tiny sample of what he could do.

Hayward's defensive game was strong for the most part this year IMO. He averaged 2.5 tackles and if we can find someone else to match that (perhaps Cleary), that would match the tackling pressure of Lohmann and Cameron for the Lions.

It's a shame that Papley doesn't have more of a defensive game, but he was also generally down on that side of his game this year compared to previous seasons. If he can get back up to closer to 2 tackles per game to complement Hayward and Cleary (or Datolli or Campbell or whoever we go with), we'll be looking a lot better there.

I think just having more speed and chaos inside 50 will naturally result in an improved pressure game from our small forwards.

 

[caesar88]

Hayward's defensive game was strong for the most part this year IMO. He averaged 2.5 tackles and if we can find someone else to match that (perhaps Cleary), that would match the tackling pressure of Lohmann and Cameron for the Lions.

It's a shame that Papley doesn't have more of a defensive game, but he was also generally down on that side of his game this year compared to previous seasons. If he can get back up to closer to 2 tackles per game to complement Hayward and Cleary (or Datolli or Campbell or whoever we go with), we'll be looking a lot better there.

I think just having more speed and chaos inside 50 will naturally result in an improved pressure game from our small forwards.

Hayward often resembled a turnstile with his tackling attempts. He doesn't have much core strength because he is built like a beanpole, and at least he tries his guts out most of the time, which is more than I can say for his mate Papley.

I definitely agree with your last statement, in that more speed will lead to chaos which will lead to pressure. I just hope that it leads to enough pressure. Pressure has to be absolute king for us inside 50 next year. I want us to load up on smalls that can buzz around and make opposition defenders earn every possession. I think it's the only way we can mitigate the lack of marks inside 50 we'll get (even factoring in what I think is still some improvement to come from McDonald.)

 

[caesar88]

I think Chad Warner and the rumours surrounding him will be an interesting challenge for Cox first up.

I hope he's brave enough to put that to the side and move Warner out of the midfield, even if it risks increasing the appeal of moving west for Warner.

Of course, that's assuming that Cox and the selection committee have any plans to do that next year, but moving him forward and giving the likes of Mills/Sheldrick/Cleary more time in the midfield ticks so many boxes for mine.

Strengthens us at the contest ️
More speed and x-factor forward of the football ️
More defensive accountability ️
Maximises the relevant players' attributes ️

IMO Warner's best games this year were off the back of second half bursts from him. He hasn't really proven himself as someone that can dominate for four quarters, and that's fine - he doesn't have to. A move to the forward line and then rotating him through the midfield in the second half seems like the perfect way to get the best out of him.

I couldn't hit the like button harder if my name was Muhammad Ali.

I get what Horse & co were going for with Warner. He's got the electric speed and explosiveness to be that line-breaking player, but it doesn't work because he is so one-dimensional now. It's a wasted midfield spot, used on someone who gets to justify it once, maybe twice a game, if he's lucky. We could condense that into, say, only a quarter or two as you say and likely get the same impact, with a lot less wasted time.

As an aside, I have it on good authority that CBAs under Horse were a case of "who wants 'em?" Players often nominating amongst themselves who would go into the mids and when, without the coaches even knowing or affirming it. I think that system often leant itself to the biggest personalities getting more midfield opportunities, and not necessarily the best players for the midfield. I'd like to see Cox make adjustments in this regard as well.

 

[Superstar swan]

I really hope we ditch the 3 tall forward line. We really lacked athleticism and pressure up forward this year

 

[BloodySwan]

I think we're a better team with 3 tall forwards. Happy to lose a bit of pressure in our F50 for what the marking options brings us across the ground