Unofficial Preview SEASON 2025 - Best 22, Game Plan, Personnel
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Thanks Sandra
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Not relevant to thread
Neither is someone else
The King!
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We need leading teams here.
how about I tell you all what's wrong with you
how about I tell you all what's wrong with you
The King!
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- Apr 26, 2016
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You should've tried a Simpsons gifI was just trying to calm grandad down
You should go forth and multiply
Just my thoughts on this whole 3 tall forwards thing that keeps cropping up -
I've never really subscribed to this 3 talls thing. Does it really exist? How often does all 3 of Logan, McLean and Amartey play in the same forward line? And to top it I don't think Logan really plays like a tall. I don't think our forward line mix differs much from other clubs.
You have to have at least 2 talls in there with ability to take a grab or make a contest, and majority of the time that's what we have in there. Sometimes it's even just Amartey with Logan playing higher whilst McLean is having a rest or chopping out Grundy.
The functionality of our forward line has actually been pretty good, and our ability to find the loose on the breakaway plays is excellent when we are playing well. Need to just look around the league to see how many clubs struggle to put a decent score on the board. So we fair alright. We just lack that extra damaging small in addition to Hayward and Papley. It's pretty much the position Parker, Wicks and Cleary were battling for during that back end. I still think Wicks is a good option, but that's where Cleary, Dattoli and Bowman come into the picture in finding someone consistent to cement their place
Our deficiency comes from 2 areas - giving up ground position because of our midfield ineptitude to dominate stoppages. And our leaky defence when the opposition move the ball quickly. Fix those two things and all of a sudden we won't be focussing on our forward ability, it will take care of itself. These are the areas I'm looking for improvement in, not the forward line mix. Also, if we can win more midfield ball then the tall forwards become more important, otherwise you run into the impotence issues Melbourne have despite doing well in the ground position department.
P.s it would also help if our main tall was consistent. Amartey is just way too inconsistent. If he could take his outstanding ability to take a grab from one game to the next then this probably wouldn't even be a conversation. That goes for Logan too, needs to bulk up and become a more imposing figure (although i'm thinking the reality is he's just not that player).
I've never really subscribed to this 3 talls thing. Does it really exist? How often does all 3 of Logan, McLean and Amartey play in the same forward line? And to top it I don't think Logan really plays like a tall. I don't think our forward line mix differs much from other clubs.
You have to have at least 2 talls in there with ability to take a grab or make a contest, and majority of the time that's what we have in there. Sometimes it's even just Amartey with Logan playing higher whilst McLean is having a rest or chopping out Grundy.
The functionality of our forward line has actually been pretty good, and our ability to find the loose on the breakaway plays is excellent when we are playing well. Need to just look around the league to see how many clubs struggle to put a decent score on the board. So we fair alright. We just lack that extra damaging small in addition to Hayward and Papley. It's pretty much the position Parker, Wicks and Cleary were battling for during that back end. I still think Wicks is a good option, but that's where Cleary, Dattoli and Bowman come into the picture in finding someone consistent to cement their place
Our deficiency comes from 2 areas - giving up ground position because of our midfield ineptitude to dominate stoppages. And our leaky defence when the opposition move the ball quickly. Fix those two things and all of a sudden we won't be focussing on our forward ability, it will take care of itself. These are the areas I'm looking for improvement in, not the forward line mix. Also, if we can win more midfield ball then the tall forwards become more important, otherwise you run into the impotence issues Melbourne have despite doing well in the ground position department.
P.s it would also help if our main tall was consistent. Amartey is just way too inconsistent. If he could take his outstanding ability to take a grab from one game to the next then this probably wouldn't even be a conversation. That goes for Logan too, needs to bulk up and become a more imposing figure (although i'm thinking the reality is he's just not that player).
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When we were/are playing well we were putting the ball to the advantage of our forwards and they could either mark or bring it to ground. Gulden initially and McInerney before injury were very good at this. Heeney was quite good. Gulden got forced wide which made him less effective. We came under more pressure which gave our forwards less space to lead into. It all got very hard.
So it's back to the midfield creating space and time, good leading patterns and more ground support than just Papley who can't do it all by himself. Nothing new.
The King!
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Is Amartey basically Ben Ronke but tall so he gets more opportunities?
- Apr 26, 2016
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I said it all season long - three talls is normal, having only 1-2 smalls was the abnormal part of our forward line.
However if Cox decides he doesn't want to budge anyone in any other position to allow for a third or fourth small, then you'd think it would have to be a tall who makes way for one.
Re Wicks, he's training as a defender this pre-season, so not sure he'll be in the small forward frame unless injuries arise.
The King!
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6 talls can work if the players are decent and perform
That was one of Reid's strengths (when fit) in that he applied terrific pressure and was great at ground level.
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Yeah the advantage with the 3 talls is that we always play with at least 2 with one on the bench. Then let’s say Grundy comes off, replaces Amartey, McLean shifts into the ruck. McDonald was great this year on playing as that link up man. Basically being at half back for a D50 stoppage.
Perhaps shifting to 2 will give us a chance to run a smaller forward line. We had a bit of a small forward carousel with Wicks and Campbell up until Papley went down which became a big problem.
We were bottom four in the comp for contested marks which why the talls have been questioned (consistency too) alongside the form of our smalls tapering off. It’s why I’m keen we picked up Dalotti and Bowman, gives us more competition after Papley and Hayward.
If, as you've been saying all year, three talls is normal, then why does one have to make way for a small?
The difference in the Swans forward set up last year was that Jordon who would start as a fwd, would then move to tag a midfielder - leaving us one small/medium fwd short
Despite David King saying a thousand times last year that Every team should have taggers (sometimes Three!), theres a reason a lot of teams dont.
Whats the chances that a small/med fwd replaces Jordon in round 1? (or at least pushes Jordon out to a wing or somewhere)
Tall and Athletic
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At least Amartey waited til his 41st game to have a performance he'll never have again.
We'll be forced into playing another small to plug the hole left by Parker.
If not Wicks then it has to be Campbell or Cleary until dattoli and Bowman are ready. Out of those 3 I think Wicks agility and tenacity definitely suits the role best. I don't really get him training with the backs unless he can reinvent himself. I don't think it's necessary though, Wicks has proven to be dangerous when playing deep - he got undone when forced higher up the ground which also coincided with our form plummet. In the times we've played well over the last 3 years Wicks has scored some ripping game breaking goals and was a joy to watch.
Out problem is our smalls playing way too high hence having fewer at the drop of the ball inside 50. Play Wicks deep like Lohman leading out of the pocket and at Amarteys feet, he'd be perfect for it imo. A high flanker role is a prick of a position when trying to impact a game let alone the scoreboard.
SSwans2011
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To be fair to Amartey, he was on track for a massive bag when we played Hawthorn last year until he went off injured too. He got Brownlow votes for that game despite going off at half time lol.
He's capable of doing it again. Hopefully he has another good run with injuries next year and starts becoming more consistent.
He's capable of doing it again. Hopefully he has another good run with injuries next year and starts becoming more consistent.
To my eye it seems more like mental application rather than injury issues. It literally wavers qtr to qtr let alone game to game. He gets high off confidence when things are going his way or if he manages to take a couple of good grabs etc, but as a game meanders he just looks plain disinterested at times, and sometimes he looks like he just wants the match to end.
SSwans2011
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He's definitely a confidence player, but I feel that towards the end of the regular season his defensive efforts really lifted at times, even when the chips were down. He had 6 tackles against the Bulldogs when we got belted and 5 against GWS in the QF despite otherwise struggling. So, I'm not sure I agree that he's disinterested.
If he could be more consistent with that defensive intent, it would benefit our forward line immensely. He averaged 2 tackles per game this year, if he could get that closer to 3, he would become a very useful asset in a forward line that watched as opposition teams rebounded far too easily this year.
Anyway, that generally got me thinking about the forward line. I had a look at the average tackle numbers this year for players who spent most of their time there this year.
Adams: 3.6
Hayward: 2.5
Parker: 2.3
McLean: 2.3
Amartey: 2.0
Wicks: 2.0
Cleary: 1.5 (excluding sub appearances)
McDonald: 1.2
Papley: 1.2
Adams and McLean's stats are inflated a bit due to spending time in the midfield and ruck respectively.
Could probably do with a bit of improvement across the board (excluding Adams) there.
2 per game should be the minimum for whoever gets a crack out of Cleary, Campbell, Dattoli, Wicks, etc.
RedBloodBlackSwan
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I like that about Wicks
RedBloodBlackSwan
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Logan to my mind is the one that really needs to stand up. Being a link up player while not taking strong contested marks, means he is basically playing like a less agile and less fit winger who happens to be tall. He also hesitated too often for my liking while entering the 50.
I know some on here hate it, but he really does seem to have the mindset of a defender to me. I think defence also plays to his strengths (good field kick, relatively athletic for a tall, reads the play well, etc) and away from his weakness (not a strong contested mark, not a demanding presence, doesn’t crash packs).
I know some on here hate it, but he really does seem to have the mindset of a defender to me. I think defence also plays to his strengths (good field kick, relatively athletic for a tall, reads the play well, etc) and away from his weakness (not a strong contested mark, not a demanding presence, doesn’t crash packs).
